Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
- Thread starter rami93
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KNUCKLHEAD
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
You know what ? after thinking about these things , I just dont believe I would have Any reason to Install another one ~ Seriously
You know what ? after thinking about these things , I just dont believe I would have Any reason to Install another one ~ Seriously
KNUCKLHEAD
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Mincer and some of You mention the 59/ custom Hybrid , must be a great p-up . I hope they do it in a mini single size ( side by . just never liked the sound of the fields on a Stack yet .
Mincer and some of You mention the 59/ custom Hybrid , must be a great p-up . I hope they do it in a mini single size ( side by . just never liked the sound of the fields on a Stack yet .
LtKojak
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Although not impossible, I'd say *not likely*.
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Actually, NO.
The suggestion to use A2 or RUA5 to give more clarity is going the opposite direction. Those choices will give an even softer high end which appears to be at least part of the op's problem.
The suggestion to wire the JB in parallel is just about the only way to get really good cleans from a JB (other than splitting...but that changes the character of the sound even more than just cleaning it up). It's a very simple thing to wire in a micro toggle to switch from series to parallel, or even series/split/parallel).
Actually, NO.
The suggestion to use A2 or RUA5 to give more clarity is going the opposite direction. Those choices will give an even softer high end which appears to be at least part of the op's problem.
The suggestion to wire the JB in parallel is just about the only way to get really good cleans from a JB (other than splitting...but that changes the character of the sound even more than just cleaning it up). It's a very simple thing to wire in a micro toggle to switch from series to parallel, or even series/split/parallel).
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
I think you still need to try parallel. Parallel gives much better clean tones to an overwound pup than split. Keep in mind that a split overwound pup is just essentially an overwound single coil...still not clean tones. Parallel keeps the bucker flavor, but it reduces the impedance of the pup by about 400% allowing the clean, more defined tones to come through.
There is no magnet swap that will get what you want from the JB. An A3 or A4 might be in the right direction because of their reduced strength, but not enough to get it. And then you've lost the goodness that you already like in the JB. You need to RETAIN what you like about it, but be able to switch to what you WANT from it on occasion.
I think you still need to try parallel. Parallel gives much better clean tones to an overwound pup than split. Keep in mind that a split overwound pup is just essentially an overwound single coil...still not clean tones. Parallel keeps the bucker flavor, but it reduces the impedance of the pup by about 400% allowing the clean, more defined tones to come through.
There is no magnet swap that will get what you want from the JB. An A3 or A4 might be in the right direction because of their reduced strength, but not enough to get it. And then you've lost the goodness that you already like in the JB. You need to RETAIN what you like about it, but be able to switch to what you WANT from it on occasion.
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Actually, yes.
Magnet swaps in the JB behave a bit differently from most other pickups. They lower the height of the resonant peak that gives the problematic upper mids. The less extreme peak in upper mids really does give a more balanced pickup, in spite of on paper it looking like it has less treble, it tends to sound a lot more balanced. It does actually thicken the rest of the mids a bit as well, but in a guitar where it manages to sound muddy as well as piercing, it still moves it in the right direction.
Singing harmonics are still there, just less monodimensional. For some players who want exactly what a stock JB does, sure, they need a different guitar because that's what they want. But to say it changes the pickup beyond recognition is simply wrong. Warren de Martini alone is strong proof otherwise, his guitars with A2 JBs still sound like JBs, just smoother.
Whether it's enough for a particular guitarist, guitar and rig is another question.
Wiring is also a good angle of attack as well, particularly split or parallel [Absolutely agree with GuitarDoc, particularly for JB and other hot pickups, difference between parallel and split is larger] for cleans. May even be better, if you want no change to distorted tones.
Actually, yes.
Magnet swaps in the JB behave a bit differently from most other pickups. They lower the height of the resonant peak that gives the problematic upper mids. The less extreme peak in upper mids really does give a more balanced pickup, in spite of on paper it looking like it has less treble, it tends to sound a lot more balanced. It does actually thicken the rest of the mids a bit as well, but in a guitar where it manages to sound muddy as well as piercing, it still moves it in the right direction.
Singing harmonics are still there, just less monodimensional. For some players who want exactly what a stock JB does, sure, they need a different guitar because that's what they want. But to say it changes the pickup beyond recognition is simply wrong. Warren de Martini alone is strong proof otherwise, his guitars with A2 JBs still sound like JBs, just smoother.
Whether it's enough for a particular guitarist, guitar and rig is another question.
Wiring is also a good angle of attack as well, particularly split or parallel [Absolutely agree with GuitarDoc, particularly for JB and other hot pickups, difference between parallel and split is larger] for cleans. May even be better, if you want no change to distorted tones.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
A JB in parallel reminds me of a Tele pickup. Sort of...
It's a nice option to have but I wouldn't want that to be my "all the time" sound from a guitar I bought for a humbucker sound.
It will not have the power or drive of a 59 or Seth Lover or any full size humbucker.
The OP would be giving up a lot unless the series to parallel was done with a switch.
I really think a whole new pickup is the answer.
A JB in parallel reminds me of a Tele pickup. Sort of...
It's a nice option to have but I wouldn't want that to be my "all the time" sound from a guitar I bought for a humbucker sound.
It will not have the power or drive of a 59 or Seth Lover or any full size humbucker.
The OP would be giving up a lot unless the series to parallel was done with a switch.
I really think a whole new pickup is the answer.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
That's what I'm thinking. A split HB has 50% of the resistance of a HB in series: in parallel it has 25%. That a big change in output & push, and obviously effects the EQ & tonal qualities. Yes, it cleans up a hot bridge, but the character of the PU isn't the same when it's dialed down that low. For overwound bridge PU's, the Custom series does well with a variety of magnets, and a variety of genres. The '59/Custom hybrid is worth consideration too, especially if clarity is a priority. Matched coils (like almost all HB's have) reduce noise, along with reducing treble & adding mids; when they're unmatched, a certain amount of single coil tone comes thru (more treble, less mids).
That's what I'm thinking. A split HB has 50% of the resistance of a HB in series: in parallel it has 25%. That a big change in output & push, and obviously effects the EQ & tonal qualities. Yes, it cleans up a hot bridge, but the character of the PU isn't the same when it's dialed down that low. For overwound bridge PU's, the Custom series does well with a variety of magnets, and a variety of genres. The '59/Custom hybrid is worth consideration too, especially if clarity is a priority. Matched coils (like almost all HB's have) reduce noise, along with reducing treble & adding mids; when they're unmatched, a certain amount of single coil tone comes thru (more treble, less mids).
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
It has a big impact on output, tone, and EQ; but other than those minor things...
It has a big impact on output, tone, and EQ; but other than those minor things...
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Gregory, a JB split into a single coil or wired in parallel will have a much lower output and drive an amp with a lot less push than if it was in series.
Thats the truth.
Gregory, a JB split into a single coil or wired in parallel will have a much lower output and drive an amp with a lot less push than if it was in series.
Thats the truth.
gregory
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Let's not pretend something different was said, OK!?!
"Output & push," "EQ & tonal qualitites" have NOTHING to do with DCR.
THAT'S the truth!!
I can pull up previous posts of mine, if you wish.
Sheesh!
Let's not pretend something different was said, OK!?!
"Output & push," "EQ & tonal qualitites" have NOTHING to do with DCR.
THAT'S the truth!!
...as if I didn't use a JB for 20 years and never once sang the praises of a JB split, or wired a hot humbucker in parallel for that matter.
I can pull up previous posts of mine, if you wish.
Sheesh!
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freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
A way among others to "fix muddy cleans", as asked in the tittle, is to lower simultaneously the inductance (source of the mud/mid bump) and the output level (which pushes the input and makes it distort).
Personally I abundantly use series/parallel with my main "Swiss army knife" stage axe: when I want beefy dirty tones in overdrive, I play the humbuckers in series. When I want clean tones, I play them in parallel, sometimes with a compressor. Works for me when I play live and that's all I was trying to share.
Other tricks that I use or have mounted for other peoples are...
-a cap in series with the pickup or a G&L style Bass-treble control - or even a carefully designed treble bleed on the volume pot, selected to cooperate in the nicest way with the capacitance of the cable used to plug the axe;
-a LRC network in parallel with the pickup. I have such things in several guitars for years and it works well. Anybody is free to PM me for further explanations.
None of these solutions denies the interest to swap magnets nor disqualifies other contributions. We are all trying to help, after all...
A way among others to "fix muddy cleans", as asked in the tittle, is to lower simultaneously the inductance (source of the mud/mid bump) and the output level (which pushes the input and makes it distort).
Personally I abundantly use series/parallel with my main "Swiss army knife" stage axe: when I want beefy dirty tones in overdrive, I play the humbuckers in series. When I want clean tones, I play them in parallel, sometimes with a compressor. Works for me when I play live and that's all I was trying to share.
Other tricks that I use or have mounted for other peoples are...
-a cap in series with the pickup or a G&L style Bass-treble control - or even a carefully designed treble bleed on the volume pot, selected to cooperate in the nicest way with the capacitance of the cable used to plug the axe;
-a LRC network in parallel with the pickup. I have such things in several guitars for years and it works well. Anybody is free to PM me for further explanations.
None of these solutions denies the interest to swap magnets nor disqualifies other contributions. We are all trying to help, after all...
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Joey Voltage
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Both Correct, because the DCR as a parameter doesn't define any of them, and Incorrect because the higher DCR actually retards all of them and has a negative effect because it dampens the resonance peak, which is counter to what most people believe or assume. I have noticed this comes up a lot here, and unfortunately some of my very first posts on this forum turned out to be sparring matches with some who held too much meaning into the correlation of it as a parameter. Below is a Sim I just did for the purposes of showing what DCR by itself does. Everything is the same beside DCR. The first is a coil with a 5H inductance, 470pf capacitance, and has a DCR of 5K it's resonance peak is displayed in Green. The second is the same except for a 16K DCR, it is displayed in blue. Last is the same except for a 32K DCR, it is displayed in red. As should be evident, the DCR by itself, has no effect where the frequency resonates, but higher dcr's have a negative net effect on filter q, and output somewhat.
Both Correct, because the DCR as a parameter doesn't define any of them, and Incorrect because the higher DCR actually retards all of them and has a negative effect because it dampens the resonance peak, which is counter to what most people believe or assume. I have noticed this comes up a lot here, and unfortunately some of my very first posts on this forum turned out to be sparring matches with some who held too much meaning into the correlation of it as a parameter. Below is a Sim I just did for the purposes of showing what DCR by itself does. Everything is the same beside DCR. The first is a coil with a 5H inductance, 470pf capacitance, and has a DCR of 5K it's resonance peak is displayed in Green. The second is the same except for a 16K DCR, it is displayed in blue. Last is the same except for a 32K DCR, it is displayed in red. As should be evident, the DCR by itself, has no effect where the frequency resonates, but higher dcr's have a negative net effect on filter q, and output somewhat.
Silence Kid
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
...A layman's question: Is it practical or possible to create two pickups in real life with identical inductance/capacitance but vary DCR? Do any two pickups on the market meet those criteria?
...A layman's question: Is it practical or possible to create two pickups in real life with identical inductance/capacitance but vary DCR? Do any two pickups on the market meet those criteria?
Joey Voltage
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Sure, but it depends on what you mean. Do you mean in terms of keeping wire gauge the same between the two as well? If you were implying the same wire gauge as well, an all other things equal approach, it would be more practical to just increase the dcr with a real resistor, it will give the exact same result. If you are talking about the sim, it's more to point out what the dcr actually does on its own all other things equal, and how it's not a very useful parameter as far as judging tone and output. All things being equal higher values are arguably worse for both.
Sure, but it depends on what you mean. Do you mean in terms of keeping wire gauge the same between the two as well? If you were implying the same wire gauge as well, an all other things equal approach, it would be more practical to just increase the dcr with a real resistor, it will give the exact same result. If you are talking about the sim, it's more to point out what the dcr actually does on its own all other things equal, and how it's not a very useful parameter as far as judging tone and output. All things being equal higher values are arguably worse for both.
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