Marshall Valvestate Pedal?

[Aceman]

The Marshall Valvestate amps are a love them / hate them sort of deal. The early ones, I say love. The later ones are hit/miss. My VS100R freaking rocks. You can get all the Marshall you want on OD1 or OD2 with that.

But they are getting old and harder to find, so now we get this. Pretty cool IMO. I'd never use that much gain, but it's Ola's vid so no surprise.

 

[DankStar]

Would be fun to goof with. Marshall Jackhammer already gets close.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Would be fun to goof with. Marshall Jackhammer already gets close.

But the Jackhammer is not a preamp and you kinda depend on the clean amp having the right voicing then.

Buuuuuut, there was another review where they compare the Martyr to an actual 8100, and it doesn't quite nail it!

 

[Inflames626]

I don't like running pedals through an amp's clean channel. Waters down the distortion, IMO. I'm much more comfortable finding a pedal and amp distortion channel that work well together with the pedal providing just enough boost to take the amp's distortion channel where it needs to go.

I've listened to Death for 30+ years. Ola sounded more like Chuck with the Tube Screamer at 3:05 than he did with the Martyr. Martyr sounds best at 1:22.

 

[Mincer]

I don't like running pedals through an amp's clean channel. Waters down the distortion, IMO. I'm much more comfortable finding a pedal and amp distortion channel that work well together with the pedal providing just enough boost to take the amp's distortion channel where it needs to go.

I've listened to Death for 30+ years. Ola sounded more like Chuck with the Tube Screamer at 3:05 than he did with the Martyr. Martyr sounds best at 1:22.

Hahaha, I am the opposite. Pedal through clean channel, always.

 

[Securb]

Hahaha, I am the opposite. Pedal through clean channel, always.

Same here. I build a stella clean tone I like with lots of headroom, then build my textures on top of that. I find it to be much more flexible and controllable.

 

[ErikH]

I'm old school. Gimme a solid overdriven rhythm sound and then I'll hit it with an OD to get it where I want it for leads. For cleans, I roll the guitar volume back and am experimenting with using a compressor to get it "cleaner". My MXR 5150 Overdrive I would certainly use in to a clean channel though, and have. With a modeling type setup, I tend to have a clean tone dialed in and use the pedals for my overdrive tones.

The Martyr sounds OK. That's more gain than I would use. Heck, I don't even go past half most of the time with the 5150 OD.

 

[Aceman]

I don't like running pedals through an amp's clean channel. Waters down the distortion, IMO. .

I've listened to Death for 30+ years. Ola sounded more like Chuck with the Tube Screamer at 3:05 than he did with the Martyr. Martyr sounds best at 1:22.

1) If that is the case you are not using enough distortion!

2) You do know he was using the TS to tighten it up, right? TS + Martyr isn't a bad deal to get that sound if that is what you want (And I agree - TS helped)

 

[Aceman]

This vid had me shopping for more VS100's

 

[Aceman]

This guy came close to nailing a great blind video.

What I HATED was that he didn't play the same riff through each!!!!! So for example, you heard one amp/box playing single lines, then it went to harmony. GRRRRRR.

Still, cool vid.

A few notes:

1. I would never play with that much gain, and just lowering the gain a little might really help a lot
2. 8200? Wow - don't even remember that
3. Randall - not even close IMO, but a bad@$$ sound period.
4. Marshall pedał was pretty cool

Just my thoughts. I'm sticking with my VS100. Might be nice to have a head to go with my 2x12 cab.

 

[Inflames626]

1) If that is the case you are not using enough distortion!

2) You do know he was using the TS to tighten it up, right? TS + Martyr isn't a bad deal to get that sound if that is what you want (And I agree - TS helped)

I loved how the TS shimmered in the upper mids and highs. You could hear the individual strings even through all that distortion. The Martyr added some thickness and low end but I was fine with the TS alone.

The downside to that sound is once you start doubling to quad tracking you get a beehive wall of guitars sound. Death's "Human" from 1991 was bad for this. I would dial them back a little for the sake of the mix.

Also, I wouldn't consider putting a pedal into a distorted channel to be that different from putting a super hot pickup like an Invader or X2N in front of the amp as long as you don't crank the gain on the pedal.

On most JCM800/900 style amps, I leave the gain around 7. If I go beyond that, it turns into a fuzzy mess. Back in the day I would use a BBE 482i in the loop of my Carvin MTS3200 (JCM 900 style head that briefly replaced the X100B). I didn't like using pedals before amps then, but considering how the 482i expands lows and highs, my ear was telling me to use it as a boost.

In my plugins, even older ones like Pod Farm, juicing an 800's distorted channel with just slight adjustments on a TS style pedal was enough for me to do death metal (using AHB3s). Changing impulse responses and such got more highs out of it without needing to add additional fuzzy gain.

Ola was playing newer Death riffs from "Symbolic," (1995) but where I hear the real downside of super hot pickup into fuzzy solid state distortion is on "Human." I love this guitar sound. I'm just not sure I would have done more than 2 rhythm tracks, and I would have dialed back the gain so there is less fizz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg0zCD1XCtQ

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The Martyr sounds OK. That's more gain than I would use. Heck, I don't even go past half most of the time with the 5150 OD.

The 5150 OD does seem to have a lot more gain than the Martyr, though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

This guy came close to nailing a great blind video.

What I HATED was that he didn't play the same riff through each!!!!! So for example, you heard one amp/box playing single lines, then it went to harmony. GRRRRRR.

Still, cool vid.

A few notes:

1. I would never play with that much gain, and just lowering the gain a little might really help a lot
2. 8200? Wow - don't even remember that
3. Randall - not even close IMO, but a bad@$$ sound period.
4. Marshall pedaÅ was pretty cool

Just my thoughts. I'm sticking with my VS100. Might be nice to have a head to go with my 2x12 cab.

Yeah, I'm sure there are better options if you want a more musical Marshall-in-a-box pedal. Have you looked at the AMT stuff?

They also have an M1 which is Marshall-voiced.

For me, the Valvestate sound is kinda hard to imagine doing anything other than Death/Industrial/Thrash Metal. I thought it would be too cold/tight/sterile for mid-gain rocky sounds?

 

[DankStar]

But the Jackhammer is not a preamp and you kinda depend on the clean amp having the right voicing then.

Buuuuuut, there was another review where they compare the Martyr to an actual 8100, and it doesn't quite nail it!

I've never put the jackhammer through a power amp/cab or effects loop but I sorta consider most distortion pedals that have some type of EQ preamps. I'm not sure what exactly defines a preamp in the guitar world, but to me its something that amplifies a signal and colors tone but not (usually) enough to drive a cab.

What would be cool is if someone replicated the whole tube preamp section of the valvestate in pedal form. Not that I need that.

I don't know if it's my ears or the amps, but the 8100 I had when I started was killer. I bought another one about 12 years ago and had all the pots changed out. It sounds great, but sorta different than the one I used to have. Probably just years of going through many amps and tastes. To me it's like the ultimate recording amp. Sucked in a live situation because it doesn't have the headroom.

 

[ErikH]

The 5150 OD does seem to have a lot more gain than the Martyr, though.

It certainly has a lot on tap. The boost button adds even more. It's designed after the blue channel of the 5150 III amp. Pulling the drive back and tweaking the EQ can yield a really nice "brown sound" like tone.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I've never put the jackhammer through a power amp/cab or effects loop but I sorta consider most distortion pedals that have some type of EQ preamps. I'm not sure what exactly defines a preamp in the guitar world, but to me its something that amplifies a signal and colors tone but not (usually) enough to drive a cab.

Well, a distortion pedal is technically a preamp as it goes before the amp, LOL. But actual dedicated preamp pedals are voiced brighter and the output is usually hotter than the average distortion pedal. Try plugging a standard Distortion pedal into an amp's FX loop, and it usually comes across as dark and/or quiet, and unless the EQ section is powerful enough (you need really over-the-top kinda like the Metal Zone), it's really hard to make it work.

But try plugging a dedicated preamp pedal into a clean channel, and it will probably come off as really harsh.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

It certainly has a lot on tap. The boost button adds even more. It's designed after the blue channel of the 5150 III amp. Pulling the drive back and tweaking the EQ can yield a really nice "brown sound" like tone.

Neither of my 5150III's blue channels had enough gain for what I wanted, personally. Not without a boost. But I've seen the pedal is pretty over-the-top, so who know what hocus pocus they have going on... or how close it is to the actual thing. Either way, from what I heard, it sounds kickass. I wish they made it as a dedicated preamp rathern tha a pedal meant to go into a clean channel.

 

[ErikH]

Neither of my 5150III's blue channels had enough gain for what I wanted, personally. Not without a boost. But I've seen the pedal is pretty over-the-top, so who know what hocus pocus they have going on... or how close it is to the actual thing. Either way, from what I heard, it sounds kickass. I wish they made it as a dedicated preamp rathern tha a pedal meant to go into a clean channel.

That would be cool. I could run this in to my DSM & Humboldt Simplifer with a delay in the Simplifier FX loop and have the perfect DI setup. Or even the 5150 OD and a TwoNotes M+ (if I had one). I don't disagree that there's more in the pedal than in the amp itself. But, Eddie was involved with the design and signed off on it. That's good enough for me.

 

[DankStar]

Well, a distortion pedal is technically a preamp as it goes before the amp, LOL. But actual dedicated preamp pedals are voiced brighter and the output is usually hotter than the average distortion pedal. Try plugging a standard Distortion pedal into an amp's FX loop, and it usually comes across as dark and/or quiet, and unless the EQ section is powerful enough (you need really over-the-top kinda like the Metal Zone), it's really hard to make it work.

But try plugging a dedicated preamp pedal into a clean channel, and it will probably come off as really harsh.

ah, that must be why AMT pedals have those two different outputs, I never quite understood that.

 

[Inflames626]

I've never put the jackhammer through a power amp/cab or effects loop but I sorta consider most distortion pedals that have some type of EQ preamps. I'm not sure what exactly defines a preamp in the guitar world, but to me its something that amplifies a signal and colors tone but not (usually) enough to drive a cab.

What would be cool is if someone replicated the whole tube preamp section of the valvestate in pedal form. Not that I need that.

I don't know if it's my ears or the amps, but the 8100 I had when I started was killer. I bought another one about 12 years ago and had all the pots changed out. It sounds great, but sorta different than the one I used to have. Probably just years of going through many amps and tastes. To me it's like the ultimate recording amp. Sucked in a live situation because it doesn't have the headroom.

The closest thing I can think of to this is the modular MTS/RM4 preamp tube heads Randall used to sell back in the 00s. Not sure why they didn't catch on more with pedal people who could later adapt these preamps to a pedal format.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTSRM4--randall-rm4