Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
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Petie
New member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Just got this from Grover Jackson and Jon Gold: http://iheartguitarblog.com/2015/09/made-on-planet-earth-by-grover-jackson.html
Following the recent announcement by venerable acoustic guitar maker and iconic American brand C.F. Martin to cease putting “Made in the USA” on their products, GJ2 Guitars by Grover Jackson that have previously been marked “made in USA” will, with immediate effect, be marked “Made on Planet Earth by Grover Jackson”.
Since its formation in 2011, the California-based, boutique guitar manufacturer has proudly built fine guitars at its Orange County facility. Every USA GJ2 guitar is built from scratch, including all of the wooden parts, inlays and much of the hardware, which is normally bought by most companies from outside vendors. It is inevitable, however, that some components, or the material with which to fabricate them, can only be sourced offshore. Sadly, this negates the right of any manufacturer to declare “Made in USA” because the threat of high, punitive fines is not something that any company, especially a relatively small start-up like GJ2, can risk.
“While we think this situation is ridiculous, we cannot risk contravening the laws of the land,” stated GJ2 CEO Jon Gold. “We will continue to make as much as we can at our facility using the best quality materials and working practices available. Consumers and dealers can be assured that nothing, aside from the wording on the headstock, has changed”.
“I just want to build the best guitars that I can,” said Grover Jackson. “If I could buy USA-grown mahogany, I would. But that just isn’t possible. We will continue to source what we can from U.S. suppliers and all our designs and ideas are 100% home-grown!”
Just got this from Grover Jackson and Jon Gold: http://iheartguitarblog.com/2015/09/made-on-planet-earth-by-grover-jackson.html
Following the recent announcement by venerable acoustic guitar maker and iconic American brand C.F. Martin to cease putting “Made in the USA” on their products, GJ2 Guitars by Grover Jackson that have previously been marked “made in USA” will, with immediate effect, be marked “Made on Planet Earth by Grover Jackson”.
Since its formation in 2011, the California-based, boutique guitar manufacturer has proudly built fine guitars at its Orange County facility. Every USA GJ2 guitar is built from scratch, including all of the wooden parts, inlays and much of the hardware, which is normally bought by most companies from outside vendors. It is inevitable, however, that some components, or the material with which to fabricate them, can only be sourced offshore. Sadly, this negates the right of any manufacturer to declare “Made in USA” because the threat of high, punitive fines is not something that any company, especially a relatively small start-up like GJ2, can risk.
“While we think this situation is ridiculous, we cannot risk contravening the laws of the land,” stated GJ2 CEO Jon Gold. “We will continue to make as much as we can at our facility using the best quality materials and working practices available. Consumers and dealers can be assured that nothing, aside from the wording on the headstock, has changed”.
“I just want to build the best guitars that I can,” said Grover Jackson. “If I could buy USA-grown mahogany, I would. But that just isn’t possible. We will continue to source what we can from U.S. suppliers and all our designs and ideas are 100% home-grown!”
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
I think it's a disservice for manufacturers to have to cave in to laws that are not well-written enough and needed a few more rounds of refinement before being put into effect. I'd rather see the manufacturers gang together and push back on the wording and definition until they get it right.
While I believe Made in U.S.A. should mean something, the current law and it's definition are having the opposite effect - by causing manufacturers to come up with more obscure labels that do less to inform the customer about the product.
I think it's a disservice for manufacturers to have to cave in to laws that are not well-written enough and needed a few more rounds of refinement before being put into effect. I'd rather see the manufacturers gang together and push back on the wording and definition until they get it right.
While I believe Made in U.S.A. should mean something, the current law and it's definition are having the opposite effect - by causing manufacturers to come up with more obscure labels that do less to inform the customer about the product.
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Next, they will go after "Made in Korea" for sourcing parts from China or elsewhere. Next thing you know, "Made on planet earth" will be stamped or stickered on everything. But that may not cover it.
First, the Gov. wants the consumer to know what he or she is getting and where it comes from. Then there is pride (among other things) for the American company who offers an USA made product (labeled in compliance with government standards). Then, litigators come along and want to sue, because it's lucrative, I guess. Seems to me that it's not too long from now when companies will be damned, no matter what they do. If they don't clearly label with origin that meets governmental requirements, they'll fine you. If you do, you'll be sued by money seeking lawyers. I think I'm being sarcastic, in part ... but I'm not so sure. Knowing how many regulations are imposed by the government, it seems like the scenario probably isn't very far fetched.
I don't think that's a "political" commentary. If it is, I'm sure the mods will let me know, one way or another.
Next, they will go after "Made in Korea" for sourcing parts from China or elsewhere. Next thing you know, "Made on planet earth" will be stamped or stickered on everything. But that may not cover it.
First, the Gov. wants the consumer to know what he or she is getting and where it comes from. Then there is pride (among other things) for the American company who offers an USA made product (labeled in compliance with government standards). Then, litigators come along and want to sue, because it's lucrative, I guess. Seems to me that it's not too long from now when companies will be damned, no matter what they do. If they don't clearly label with origin that meets governmental requirements, they'll fine you. If you do, you'll be sued by money seeking lawyers. I think I'm being sarcastic, in part ... but I'm not so sure. Knowing how many regulations are imposed by the government, it seems like the scenario probably isn't very far fetched.
I don't think that's a "political" commentary. If it is, I'm sure the mods will let me know, one way or another.
treyhaislip
Well-known member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Love it!
Sad it has to come to that but I'd say that is a great response to this ridiculous interpretation of an old law...
Love it!
Sad it has to come to that but I'd say that is a great response to this ridiculous interpretation of an old law...
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Yup. Have to look at it from a Continent view. The proper name is The United State of America, or The United States. Like Edgecrusher said, America is just an abbreviated way of saying the same. And this goes way back before Facebook even existed and even the internet. Others around the world referred to those from USA as Americans for years. We, "USA", is just one big country in North America.
This whole thing of not being able to label products as "Made in USA" just because a raw component(s) come from another country sickens me. Sure, let's further remove any USA identity of manufacturing from products, remove the identity of the pride of making those products. If it were me, I would use this label; "Made in USA using the finest raw materials and components from the USA and around the world".
Yup. Have to look at it from a Continent view. The proper name is The United State of America, or The United States. Like Edgecrusher said, America is just an abbreviated way of saying the same. And this goes way back before Facebook even existed and even the internet. Others around the world referred to those from USA as Americans for years. We, "USA", is just one big country in North America.
This whole thing of not being able to label products as "Made in USA" just because a raw component(s) come from another country sickens me. Sure, let's further remove any USA identity of manufacturing from products, remove the identity of the pride of making those products. If it were me, I would use this label; "Made in USA using the finest raw materials and components from the USA and around the world".
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Since this thread was posted I've been noticing more manufacturing labels.
Designed and manufactured by Dunlop Box 846 Benicia CA 94510 U.S.A.
Handbuilt in Petaluma California
Assembled in the USA from parts hand-crafted in Canada
I have an American made Strat with no country of manufacturer markings.
Interestingly, Fulltone has gone from no country of manufacture with an indirect reference, e.g. "Soul-Bender by Fulltone USA" to "Handmade in the USA" and now appears to be "Hand-Crafted in California".
And the couple of Gibson Custom guitars I have have no country of manufacture on them that I can find while the Gibson USA guitars have "Made in U.S.A." on the headstock.
In the past I thought this was an attempt by certain brands to appear special by avoiding a generic "Made in USA" and using something more interesting like "Handcrafted" or "Lovingly assembled by hand in some small basement at the following address". Never thought it was actually due to some legal distortion.
Since this thread was posted I've been noticing more manufacturing labels.
Designed and manufactured by Dunlop Box 846 Benicia CA 94510 U.S.A.
Handbuilt in Petaluma California
Assembled in the USA from parts hand-crafted in Canada
I have an American made Strat with no country of manufacturer markings.
Interestingly, Fulltone has gone from no country of manufacture with an indirect reference, e.g. "Soul-Bender by Fulltone USA" to "Handmade in the USA" and now appears to be "Hand-Crafted in California".
And the couple of Gibson Custom guitars I have have no country of manufacture on them that I can find while the Gibson USA guitars have "Made in U.S.A." on the headstock.
In the past I thought this was an attempt by certain brands to appear special by avoiding a generic "Made in USA" and using something more interesting like "Handcrafted" or "Lovingly assembled by hand in some small basement at the following address". Never thought it was actually due to some legal distortion.
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
I think they should just start micro-stamping or barcoding the headstock. That way they can list every single part and where it came from, down to the plating on the screws and every chemical in the finish. Just use a 60X loop or download a barcode reader on the apple or android device. Full disclosure, and nobody get's sued ... maybe.
I think they should just start micro-stamping or barcoding the headstock. That way they can list every single part and where it came from, down to the plating on the screws and every chemical in the finish. Just use a 60X loop or download a barcode reader on the apple or android device. Full disclosure, and nobody get's sued ... maybe.
vinta9e
New member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
I don't believe this cover up. It's obvious Grover Jackson is preparing for the conquest of the universe. :bigthumb:
I don't believe this cover up. It's obvious Grover Jackson is preparing for the conquest of the universe. :bigthumb:
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
It is crazy to apply that rule to wood when not all wood species grow in the U.S. in the first place.
Consumer protection gone wrong. The opposite is achieved. Now those people who want to buy something built in the U.S. have a harder time finding out what is.
It is crazy to apply that rule to wood when not all wood species grow in the U.S. in the first place.
Consumer protection gone wrong. The opposite is achieved. Now those people who want to buy something built in the U.S. have a harder time finding out what is.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Ok, was it an editorial piece that drew the conclusion that 100% of every part of every piece has to be made in the United States, and NOT the Supreme Court of California's interpretation of the ruling? I'm confused. Someone is going to get hated on, and I'd like to know I've got the correct target. If it was an editor, I'd like to know ask how this moron drew that conclusion. If it's how the SC of CA interpreted the ruling, I want to know, in great detail, how they derive "and" from "or" with regards to "entirely or substantially". It's one OR the other, not both. One cannot be both wet and dry, or on fire and not on fire, or moving North and South at the same time, or round and square.
This sort of thing cannot be brought up in conversation without it being about politics, though. It's the prime motivation behind it, and the root cause of the problem.
This is starting to sound more and more like someone in California is butt-hurt over the whole "Made in the U.S.A. means top of the line, better than everyone else" concept. Perhaps they're of Chinese or Central/South American or even Indonesian ancestry, and they hear "oh look, more <insert foreign country> crap" every time they turn around. I'm all for truth in labeling, but this sounds like a contrived plot to get everyone to change their labels to "made on Planet Earth". Once that goes global, you won't be able to tell Made in USA from Made in China, even in the prices, unless you research the branding. However, look for those restrictions to be struck down by the same groups, citing unfair competition because Gibson won't let The People's Guitar Factory #12 sell their knock-offs with a Gibson logo.
Once that spreads, you'll have to drive down to Seymour Duncan HQ and buy one direct from the factory because your local dealer could be stocking foreign counterfeits with legally-sanctioned branding.
But I suggest these companies start pushing back now, and push further to have the ambulance-chasers who brought this to the court disbarred, and the judges who approved it recalled.
Ok, was it an editorial piece that drew the conclusion that 100% of every part of every piece has to be made in the United States, and NOT the Supreme Court of California's interpretation of the ruling? I'm confused. Someone is going to get hated on, and I'd like to know I've got the correct target. If it was an editor, I'd like to know ask how this moron drew that conclusion. If it's how the SC of CA interpreted the ruling, I want to know, in great detail, how they derive "and" from "or" with regards to "entirely or substantially". It's one OR the other, not both. One cannot be both wet and dry, or on fire and not on fire, or moving North and South at the same time, or round and square.
This sort of thing cannot be brought up in conversation without it being about politics, though. It's the prime motivation behind it, and the root cause of the problem.
This is starting to sound more and more like someone in California is butt-hurt over the whole "Made in the U.S.A. means top of the line, better than everyone else" concept. Perhaps they're of Chinese or Central/South American or even Indonesian ancestry, and they hear "oh look, more <insert foreign country> crap" every time they turn around. I'm all for truth in labeling, but this sounds like a contrived plot to get everyone to change their labels to "made on Planet Earth". Once that goes global, you won't be able to tell Made in USA from Made in China, even in the prices, unless you research the branding. However, look for those restrictions to be struck down by the same groups, citing unfair competition because Gibson won't let The People's Guitar Factory #12 sell their knock-offs with a Gibson logo.
Once that spreads, you'll have to drive down to Seymour Duncan HQ and buy one direct from the factory because your local dealer could be stocking foreign counterfeits with legally-sanctioned branding.
But I suggest these companies start pushing back now, and push further to have the ambulance-chasers who brought this to the court disbarred, and the judges who approved it recalled.
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Your rage seems a little off target.
I'm going to guess that back in 1961 there wasn't a whole lot of people in government who were too concerned about the feelings of various (insert racial slang here).
Your rage seems a little off target.
I'm going to guess that back in 1961 there wasn't a whole lot of people in government who were too concerned about the feelings of various (insert racial slang here).
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
EDIT: Petie beat me to it!
GJ2 Guitars in orange County, CA just had to do this, too:
EDIT: Petie beat me to it!
GJ2 Guitars in orange County, CA just had to do this, too:
GJ2 Guitars Facebook Page said:OK folks, don't be sad!! Changing the headstock wording is due to the fact that by the letter of the law, a product has to be 100% American to be called "made in USA". As we use German Floyds, African mahogany, Indian rosewood etc we cannot risk a lawsuit. C.F. Martin were the first US guitar company to make a change like this and if it is good enough for them, it should be good enough for us!!
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BriGuy1968
New member
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
It wouldn't necessarily be someone of foreign descent. Last year, while at work, I was signing onto a website for a worldwide coatings manufacturer and it was asking for my country. The drop-down list is in alphabetical order, so "United States of America" was near the bottom of the list. I commented to one of my co-workers about how weird it was to not have The United States on top (face it, we consume more than any other nation, so lots of websites list the United States first in their drop-down lists).
He is 100% American like me, but has some very "new age-ish" points of view. His response to me was to say, "Just as it should be." :11:
I was shocked by his lack of pride for his country, but it seems more and more that there are those in this nation who view being an American as something to be ashamed of. I find it to be very disappointing... :sad:
It wouldn't necessarily be someone of foreign descent. Last year, while at work, I was signing onto a website for a worldwide coatings manufacturer and it was asking for my country. The drop-down list is in alphabetical order, so "United States of America" was near the bottom of the list. I commented to one of my co-workers about how weird it was to not have The United States on top (face it, we consume more than any other nation, so lots of websites list the United States first in their drop-down lists).
He is 100% American like me, but has some very "new age-ish" points of view. His response to me was to say, "Just as it should be." :11:
I was shocked by his lack of pride for his country, but it seems more and more that there are those in this nation who view being an American as something to be ashamed of. I find it to be very disappointing... :sad:
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
I get the same weird feeling when I don't see United States at the top of those kinds of drop-downs as well, but I can understand the logic behind listing them alphabetically. I typically just highlight the list and hit "U" until it comes up anyway. Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay whoops back one and I'm there. It's a minor inconvenience to me these days, but I do agree that sometimes people expect me to apologize for being American (not to mention white, hetero, male, and having specific religious beliefs).
I get the same weird feeling when I don't see United States at the top of those kinds of drop-downs as well, but I can understand the logic behind listing them alphabetically. I typically just highlight the list and hit "U" until it comes up anyway. Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay whoops back one and I'm there. It's a minor inconvenience to me these days, but I do agree that sometimes people expect me to apologize for being American (not to mention white, hetero, male, and having specific religious beliefs).
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Martin Guitars No Longer "Made in USA"
Rage? Not at all. Lack of details. Who exactly is bringing these issues to court, and for what reason? No one acts solely on the nobility of The Cause, there's always an Agenda. In this case, I'm alleging that these lawyers who brought this to court are of a given ethnic heritage that is often cited in the "they make cheap crap" comments and decided to challenge the notion that Americans have some mystical power that allows them to assemble globally-sourced parts into something more better than what any 12 year old in any other 3rd world country can do for $1 USD a month.
At its very core, its an infringement on free enterprise more than any sort of Consumer Protection blanket they're trying to lay down.
Rage? Not at all. Lack of details. Who exactly is bringing these issues to court, and for what reason? No one acts solely on the nobility of The Cause, there's always an Agenda. In this case, I'm alleging that these lawyers who brought this to court are of a given ethnic heritage that is often cited in the "they make cheap crap" comments and decided to challenge the notion that Americans have some mystical power that allows them to assemble globally-sourced parts into something more better than what any 12 year old in any other 3rd world country can do for $1 USD a month.
At its very core, its an infringement on free enterprise more than any sort of Consumer Protection blanket they're trying to lay down.
