Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

[lex666]

Hey Mesa experts,

I've been wanting a Mesa for while now. I finally went and demo'd a couple yesterday. I tried the Lone Star and the Stilleto Duece using a fender 60's strat. I'm looking for a high gain sound similar to the old metallica. Something high gain, but different from my Marshall TSL602. I mostly play metal, punk, classic rock... I've got a bunch of questions I'd rather ask you tone experts, instead of a sales guy trying to sell me $2000 worth of gear, so help me out with these questions:

1. The Lone Star - thats not for high gain metal stuff, huh? The sales guy said it would, but he couldn't dial in a heavy enough tone that I liked...

2. ...so I told him to fire up the Stiletto Duece. While it did have more gain, the sales guy said I should go with a 2 channel solo rectifier head for that metallica sound. Is he right?

3. The sales guy said the Stiletto runs on EL34 tubes and will sound very similar to the TSL602 I have now. Is that true?

4. How would a Mesa sound thru a Marshall 1936 2x12 cab? I've been wanting this cab to match with my TSL602. Will I still get all the benefits of the Mesa head using this cab?

5. The rectifier swtich to select silcon diode rectifier tube. What does this do, and how does it affect the tone?

6. In the time we tried the Stiletto, the guy at the shop tried to dial in a 'metal' sound for me, while I played. He fiddled with the knob for probably an hour trying to get a good heavy tone but wasn't able to. Close but not close enough. Is that because: 1. it takes time to dial in a sweet spot on a Mesa? 2. I was using a single coil strat? 3. wrong head, like he said?

7. Why do they call themselves "Mesa Engineering" now? How come the front of the amp no longer says "Mesa/Boogie"?

8. Will the Stiletto eventually be offered in a 2x12 combo?

Sorry for the long post and many questions. I really appreciate and value your constructive advice!

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

The silicon diode rectifier makes the amp sound tighter, with a tube rec there is more "sag". I think you need to try out a Tremoverb, it has a myriad of tones and does the high gain thing real well. i played through a T-verb for 10 years good all around amp.....Joe

 

[H8Red442]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

I've never been able to get a decent high gain metallica sound out of a Stilletto and Lonestar. I don't think that's what they're designed for. I have had both the single and Dual Rectos. Hard to say which I prefer but it will definitely give you the tone you're looking for. The single has a lower sweet spot but overall different tone from the dual. The dual has to be considerably louder to get the sweet spot. That doesn't mean ear splitting level but probably louder than most would play in a bedroom. I live in an apartment and my neighbors love my Dual Recto!!!The silicon diode switch most definitely will make the sound tighter and also louder.

 

[lex666]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

I've never been able to get a decent high gain metallica sound out of a Stilletto and Lonestar. I don't think that's what they're designed for. I have had both the single and Dual Rectos. Hard to say which I prefer but it will definitely give you the tone you're looking for. The single has a lower sweet spot but overall different tone from the dual. The dual has to be considerably louder to get the sweet spot. That doesn't mean ear splitting level but probably louder than most would play in a bedroom. I live in an apartment and my neighbors love my Dual Recto!!!The silicon diode switch most definitely will make the sound tighter and also louder.

Cool. Thanks. Would you say the single or recto-verb may be what I'm looking for? It sounds like the double may be too loud for me...

 

[muttonchopsrule]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

you may want to give the stiletto another shot using a guitar equpped with some good humbuckers. i've played the deuce in the store a couple of times, and it can get you AWESOME classic rock tones, very AC/DC esque. i could get it to go a bit heavier than that, but it can only go so far before it gets all mushy. stilettos do run on EL34's and will sound more marshally.

if you want to get into metallica territory, the single rectifier heads really rock. i have to agree with h8red442...i had a single recto for about 2 years and now i have a dual rectifier, but if it's hard to say which one i like more. spend a little time playing one and see what you think.

and lastly, mesa heads sounds great through marshall cabs. i run my dual recto through a marshall 4x12 and it sounds awesome. i'm sure that a mesa through your marshall 2x12 would rock!

 

[J Moose]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

3. The sales guy said the Stiletto runs on EL34 tubes and will sound very similar to the TSL602 I have now. Is that true?

Maybe, maybe not. There's a lot more to the sound of an amp then the power tubes. My Rivrea Rake runs on EL34's and it sounds NOTHING like a Recto with EL34's or a Marshall with EL34s, Ampegs, Bogners...

5. The rectifier swtich to select silcon diode rectifier tube. What does this do, and how does it affect the tone?

Without getting too technical the rectifier will affect the tone & feel of the amp. Usually SS = tighter & a little more headroom and tube = softer & spongier with a less headroom. Play around with it for a while and you'll get the idea. Just DON'T SWITCH THEM WHILE THE AMP IS ON!!!! Power down before you swap postions.

6. In the time we tried the Stiletto, the guy at the shop tried to dial in a 'metal' sound for me, while I played. He fiddled with the knob for probably an hour trying to get a good heavy tone but wasn't able to. Close but not close enough. Is that because: 1. it takes time to dial in a sweet spot on a Mesa? 2. I was using a single coil strat? 3. wrong head, like he said?

How about #4...all of the above! Most boogies aren't exactly plug & play amps...it'll take some time to really dial-in your sound because there are so many options that can affect the tone & feel in subtle degrees. It's really easy to make 'em sound medicore & harder to make 'em great, but when you finally DO have it dialed in they're freakin' sweet!

If you're after a metal/metallica type sound you're not going to get there with a Strat or anything with single colis. The next time you go amp shopping bring your OWN guitar with you since that's the one you're going to be playing through the amp. Eon's ago when I worked music retail I was shocked at how many people didn't do that, and they'd try an amp with a Tele or something at the store and come back two days later saying it didn't sound the same with the Jackson or Les Paul that they had at home! :duh:

Sometimes I'll do the initial round of testing with a guitar in the store but I always try amps with one or two of my own guitars before I plunk the cash down.

As for right head or wrong head...that's largely a matter of personal taste. Not everyone likes the same kinda head! :laugh2:

 

[Nite_Maresz_25]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

1) Thats not really aimed twards the super high-gain tone. IMO It's more of an 80's metal high-gain.

2) Well, he is somewhat right. Metallica has been using recto for a while now(sense load, right?).

3) Yup, the Stelitto is EL-34 only

4) No idea, sorry.

5) I'm not really sure how to explain this part...I know the basics of how rectifiers work...but can't put together a good explaination right now. Maybe i'll think of it later.(where's Scott when you need him?) A solid state rectifier will get you a tighter tone.

6) It's probably because you were using a single coil loaded guitar. Go back and try it with a Les Paul and compare the tone

7) No idea.

8) No idea.

Hope this helps,
Alex.

 

[lastwinj]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

for a metallica tone, get rid of the strat, unless of course it has a humbucker in it. good luck in your search!!

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

I'll tell you a few things.

~Lonestar won't go where you want to go...shouldn't even be an option for you.

~Just because it's an EL34 amp does NOT mean it will sound like your Marshall!

~MESA Engineering was the original name Randall Smith came up with. The "Boogie" term came into play when Mesa enthusiast, Carlos Santana, made the remark, "**** man. That little thing really boogies!" when playing through Randall's modified Fender Princeton circa 1969.

~You might want to consider purchasing a guitar fitted with humbuckers if you want to get that fat Metallica crunch.

~A good reason for the Stiletto's lack of performance was probably due to the fact that that is a 100W valve amplifier and simply put, the valves as well as the speakers weren't being pushed enough.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

1. The Lone Star - thats not for high gain metal stuff, huh? The sales guy said it would, but he couldn't dial in a heavy enough tone that I liked...

It's not really meant for high gain....

2. ...so I told him to fire up the Stiletto Duece. While it did have more gain, the sales guy said I should go with a 2 channel solo rectifier head for that metallica sound. Is he right?

The Rectifier will do OK for that sound, but you'd be better off with a Mark IV....just make sure you get one with the graphic EQ.

3. The sales guy said the Stiletto runs on EL34 tubes and will sound very similar to the TSL602 I have now. Is that true?

Sorta. The TSL probably has more gain than the Stiletto.

4. How would a Mesa sound thru a Marshall 1936 2x12 cab? I've been wanting this cab to match with my TSL602. Will I still get all the benefits of the Mesa head using this cab?

Nope. It'll still sound good, but it won't have the same bottom end as a Mesa cab.

5. The rectifier swtich to select silcon diode rectifier tube. What does this do, and how does it affect the tone?

Loosens and tightens the tracking.....fast tracking makes the amp follow your notes quicker. Loose tracking induces more sag...so the notes "blossom".

6. In the time we tried the Stiletto, the guy at the shop tried to dial in a 'metal' sound for me, while I played. He fiddled with the knob for probably an hour trying to get a good heavy tone but wasn't able to. Close but not close enough. Is that because: 1. it takes time to dial in a sweet spot on a Mesa? 2. I was using a single coil strat? 3. wrong head, like he said?

2.

Also, the Stilletto is more of an early Marshall/Vox sorta thing....it's marketed as a classic rock/metal/blues sorta amp.

7. Why do they call themselves "Mesa Engineering" now? How come the front of the amp no longer says "Mesa/Boogie"?

They've always been called Mesa Engineering. Boogie amps are their older stuff, like the Mark series and whatnot. The Rectifier was a big departure in terms of circuit design, and the dropped the Boogie nameplate off them.

8. Will the Stiletto eventually be offered in a 2x12 combo?

Donno.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

Hey man if you're interested in a mesa and you want old metallica tones you should really look into one of their mark series amps. I'm kinda surprised that no one mentioned them already. James is said to have loved the mark IIc+ but those have been going for pretty stupid money on ebay for awhile now. I'd say check out a mark III, they can nail that older metallica tone and many others too, they can take some tweaking of the knobs to get where you want but they are killer amps for sure and they can be had at a pretty reasonable price on the used market.

 

[H8Red442]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

Metallica used the Mark IV on Justice for all and parts of the Black Album.

I think the Single is probably all you need unless youre in a band situation. Then it might get thin past 5. I never had that problem but I've heard people complain about it. The Dual, to my ears, has a deeper and gruntier bark than the single. They both sound amazing. I'd go with either. In fact i had a Single. Sold it bought a Dual and now i want a Single to go along with it. The cool thing about hte Dual is you can pull the two middle tubes and a rectifier tube to run in 50 watt mode but it doesnt have the shimmer of the single, which is why i now want both. They both sound awesome and either can really match what you're lookin for. I can get dead on reproduction of Slayer (Seasons In The Abyss) Metallica (pretty much anything they do) and Megadeth. the Single and the Dual are great amps.

As far as a recto-verb is concerned. Personally i dont use reverb when playing dirty. Clean is the only time i play with reverb. Metallica is the same way. Reverb to my ears actually takes away from the crispness of the saturation and makes things sound spongy. To me anyway. When I got my Single some years back I was pretty disappointed that there was no reverb. But I got used to it and. You can dial in a nice smooth tone through either amp. Just no reverb. Depends on how important reverb is to you. Also if you can play a single and dual next to each other. Be sure to use the diode rectifier. It will give you a much tighter sound than the tube rectifier. Also, since the series II Duals have 3 channels play through both dirty channels. They are quite different even though they have the same three modes. It took me about a month to figure out what the hell was going on with my Dual. Anyway, a Single is probably what you want. But I would spend a good amount of time with the Dual too. It might have the growl you're lookin for.

 

[lex666]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

Metallica used the Mark IV on Justice for all and parts of the Black Album.

I think the Single is probably all you need unless youre in a band situation. Then it might get thin past 5. I never had that problem but I've heard people complain about it. The Dual, to my ears, has a deeper and gruntier bark than the single. They both sound amazing. I'd go with either. In fact i had a Single. Sold it bought a Dual and now i want a Single to go along with it. The cool thing about hte Dual is you can pull the two middle tubes and a rectifier tube to run in 50 watt mode but it doesnt have the shimmer of the single, which is why i now want both. They both sound awesome and either can really match what you're lookin for. I can get dead on reproduction of Slayer (Seasons In The Abyss) Metallica (pretty much anything they do) and Megadeth. the Single and the Dual are great amps.

As far as a recto-verb is concerned. Personally i dont use reverb when playing dirty. Clean is the only time i play with reverb. Metallica is the same way. Reverb to my ears actually takes away from the crispness of the saturation and makes things sound spongy. To me anyway. When I got my Single some years back I was pretty disappointed that there was no reverb. But I got used to it and. You can dial in a nice smooth tone through either amp. Just no reverb. Depends on how important reverb is to you. Also if you can play a single and dual next to each other. Be sure to use the diode rectifier. It will give you a much tighter sound than the tube rectifier. Also, since the series II Duals have 3 channels play through both dirty channels. They are quite different even though they have the same three modes. It took me about a month to figure out what the hell was going on with my Dual. Anyway, a Single is probably what you want. But I would spend a good amount of time with the Dual too. It might have the growl you're lookin for.

Cool. Thanks for the advice.

Thanks to everyone for their input. I'd still like to hear more about your Mesa's so keep 'em coming!

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

All Mark IV's come stock with all the desired features, including graphic EQ.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Mesa experts: I have a bunch of questions...

I use older Mesas. I have used a Heartbreaker and a Nomad as well.
I highly recommend Recto cabs for metal. They are oversized and the vintage 30s are right on with the tone. I have one of their 2x12's. My sound is a little more classic so I use a G12H30 4x12.

The Tube rectifiers do give nice compression and SAG, however for metal you will NOT want one. It messes up the articulation and "tightness"

I was not wowed by the Stilettos. They are supposed to be Marshalls. Frankly, get a reissue Marshall or an old 800, much better. Mesas are hell to dial in.

I would say you should consider a rectifier and use EL34's in it. You might like the midrange and crunch. The SOLO head is by far the best model. The clean channel isn't great, but I would take the SOLO over most Marshall TSL's. TSL's were kinda aimed at the RECTO market, as was the Mode 4. I think the DSL is a little more organic. That being said, 800s sound better to me. I'd rather use 800's with a pedal.

As far as the Mark IV, Metallica, Lamb of God and many others have proven these amps are BEASTS! Do try the SIMUL CLASS option, where you can mix tubes and get low power class A output. You may like it! Otherwise, the 4x6L6 is quite rude sounding. Be careful of the CAB you choose. OLD SCHOOL Metallica, and current ZAKK Wylde use EV12L's for some of their work.

EV12'Ls are 200W, all around ballsy speakers. Amazing for loud metal. They do not sound great turned down, and they are a tad harsh. You either love or hate them. The Mesa 90w speaker is a tad creamy and sweet for metal. Mark IV combos come with 90w's. The main knock on MESA MARK IV's is that the bass if "flubby" and they are hard to set. I agree with both. I hate that mesas are hard to set and tweak. I do not like messing with knobs in the low light of a gig. Old Mesas did not have this problem. RECTO SOLOs don't have this problem in too bad a way.

If you are looking for rude tones, also consider the MESA NOMAD or F100. I am not a NOMAD fan but they are good 3 channel amps with lots of gain and an EQ (100w ver). Great footswitching, as good as the 3 channel RECTOS. The F series is much more Organic sounding but may not have the buzzsaw kinda gain you want for metal.

There is some debate that the 3 channel Rectos sound worse than the 2 channel, but I cannot tell. I like the versatility and footswtiching of the 3 channel. The Single Rectifier models are not rude enough for metal. The tremoverb and rectoverb are a touch sweet compared to 100w RECTOS. remember 100w amps have crazy powerful transformers and a lot of power running thru them so they sound mean!

The LONE STAR is straight Fender and bluesy sounding. I would never bother playing metal on this. JUst doesn't have the midrange crunch.

There is my 2 cents