Unless you are playing at volume, then it becomes frighteningly obvious that it is the right choice. If you are playing at bedroom volume or minimal volume then it is less obvious. At proper stage volume, nothing touches a 4x12.
Mesa Mark V continues to impress.
- Thread starter NegativeEase
- Start date
Unless you are playing at volume, then it becomes frighteningly obvious that it is the right choice. If you are playing at bedroom volume or minimal volume then it is less obvious. At proper stage volume, nothing touches a 4x12.
No I am not assuming that, it would be foolish to do so. We were talking about cabs, not speakers. The "trend" is less is more now a days and it will never work. I see people all the time deciding to go with a 1x12 or a 2x12 over a 4x12 yet they want the 4x12 feel and sound. Not gonna happen. Same with amps. People want that 20 watt amp to sound and respond like a 100 watt amp. Not gonna happen. Funnier yet is trying to get their studio monitors to sound and respond like their 4x12 at volume did. Not gonna happen. Then you see the same folks adding another 1x12 to the equation to get that big sound that came naturally with the 4x12. Meanwhile, if they would have just plugged their 100 or 50 watt amp into the 4x12 they would have been there but they can't because "oh my aching back"...lol. So they finally plug all their stuff up, turn it up and it farts out because it can't handle what you are throwing at it.
On the flip side, I get it. Some people just want a "good" sound with minimal stuff taking up minimal space and the ability to plug in after a long day at work for 20 minutes and fart around and play some licks a couple times a week. 99.9% of anything I ever say is not directed to that audience. Truth be told, even that guy, if he turned his rig way up and played at volume would gravitate towards the 4x12 if given the option side by side.
So no...I am talking cabs, not speakers. A lousy speaker will always be a lousy speaker no matter the size cabinet you place it in.
devastone
Well-known member
There is a compromise somewhere, we were being told to turn our 50W Marshalls into 4-12s down 25 - 30 years ago, by the time we turned down to make the soundman happy, we weren't in the "magic" zone. Best tones I've ever had was a rack with a Kasha preamp into a Rocktron Intelliverb and Replifex through a MosValve (yeah...) power amp into 2 Avatar 2-12s, they had Eminence Redcoat speakers, don't remember exactly which ones, I had a small pedalboard in front with some front of amp pedals, channel switcher, and a small MIDI controller. It didn't exactly do bedroom volumes, but it would do reasonable practice volume, or, it could move air and overpower a drummer if necessary. And yeah, I'm sure it would have felt amazing thru a couple of 4-12s, but, not necessary, at least for me, YMMV.
JamesPaul
Well-known member
We may want 100W tube heads into 412 cabs. If we are playing out, what matters is what the audience wants. If you are playing in your room, what matters is what you want.
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I think the audience does not care if it comes from a $3000 tube amp or a $300 modeling amp as long as they get what they want.
Gtrjunior
New member
I can’t disagree more with the comment about “what the audience wants”.
If you’re concern is what the audience wants you may as well plug into a 10 watt Gorilla amp. The average drunk in a bar has NO IDEA about anything tone-wise.
What matters when playing out is what I want.
That sounds like a sound man problem to me...lol. Most are lazy and will suck the live energy and vibe of a band right out of them for volume sake if you let them. Imagine Motorhead or the Ramones or whoever having the soundman come up to them and saying..."hi fellas. I need you to turn it down a lot so my readings can balance out and we can have a nice ambiance in the room...lol. You lose the push and you have lost the vibe of the band. YMMV
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I was not advocating going below where the musicians are happy with their sound. But that average drunk in a bar who has no idea about tone, does not notice the difference between my expensive tube amp and my relatively inexpensive modeling amp. I can be happy with my VIP 3 tone in a dive bar. Especially when said drunk stumbles up to the tiny stage, trips and pours his PBR into the amp.
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I would not go down to a 10W Gorilla, or Decade in my case, but as I noted earlier I can live with my VIP 3 tone in a dive bar. If things go wrong, I am only out a fraction of the cost compared to my tube amps.
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I thought we had eradicated PBR, like Polio. But since it's comeback, most places around here have it on draft or draft & bottles. Sadly, there are 2 bars around campus that also stock cans.
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I will not argue against this. I would rather drink diet soda or Hawaiian Punch than drink PBR. ...and I have not drank soda in 25 years.
chadd
Well-known member
Most master volume tube amps provide good tone at less than ear shattering volume, but an old plexi could damn near kill a small animal to get in the sweet spot. A simple sound baffle or shield goes a long way towards not killing the audience, especially when using a closed back cab.
chadd
Well-known member
A professional musician can put on a good show, even if they aren't happy with their sound that night. I'm a rank amateur and one of the channels on my Mesa Road King wasn't working (switch got flipped) and I still played through without anyone else noticing.
This is very true. I obsess about the smallest things, and work hard to not let it influence the show. But my experience is not the audience's experience. We can have a great show, and we are told this by dozens of people, and sometimes I only think 'man, my wah pedal is so noisy! I really need to replace that!"
Gtrjunior
New member
I hear what you’re saying but for me, I need to enjoy my tone. It needs to inspire me.
I’m not worried about what the audience thinks of my tone… of course I want it to sound good for all Involved but first and foremost, it’s for me and to best serve the song/band.
If you dig the tone you’re getting with the V3 then by all means rock it!!! But don’t settle for less just because someone else can’t tell.
Where would we be if EVH just settled?
Or Stevie
Or Clapton
Or….
Or….
Or….
You get it. Lol
JamesPaul
Well-known member
I understand where you are coming from and I get it. I think we are heading the same place. I am just truly good with this in the dive bars to go easy on my back and potentially my wallet.
I still have three 100W plus heads and five 412s. If the October Pink gig is on this year, I will be hauling at least a half stack. Also my JSX 212 sits out with my VIP, so I have big bottles readily available at the house if needed.
Oh hi Axl! There's donuts on my 412, don't take more than 4 please.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Except that with some musicians it takes a LOT to be happy with their sound & that's usually to the detriment of the crowd. They want to hear you rocking out not spending ages twiddling your knobs (or worse still..scrolling through menu's) between every song.
Personally, I've never played without an actual amp & 4x12 on stage ..anything else doesn't feel (or look) right. Somehow it adds to the whole live experience. Does the crowd care about your tone at all? yeah, to some extent they actually do imo (if it really sucks ..they will show their displeasure lol) ..just nowhere as much as you as a musician do. But what they care a whole lot more about is you putting on a nice energetic show and not just going through the motions (or twiddling with knobs all the time).
chadd
Well-known member
It took me forever to learn to enthusiastically accept compliments when I heartily disagree with them.
