+Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
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Brown Note
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
It's funny when people say that marshalls are legendary of the mid range punch, as the 3-band EQ, that almost every manufacturer uses, can only have a degree of mid cut no matter the setting. Also, huge mid thump is how soldano and mesas are voiced.
Today, pretty much every band has the metallica über massive guitar tones that are chracterized by a bit lower mids and huge bass range.
Some great albums that are known for their massive, mid scooped sound:
METALLICA - Master of Puppets
Motley Crüe - DR. Feelgood
Pantera - Vulgar display of power
Great sounds that are known for mid spike/mid boost
Slayer - all albums
Megadeth - Youthanasia
Which is better is pretty much a matter of taste, I personally prefer the heavier and chunkier scooped mid sound for low to mid paced sounds and for very fast rhythms it's usually better to have upper mids a bit boosted. Metallica perfected the mid scooping around the time of MoP and that album sounded fantastic! So scooping works perfectly in a band situation as long as it's not overdone.
It's funny when people say that marshalls are legendary of the mid range punch, as the 3-band EQ, that almost every manufacturer uses, can only have a degree of mid cut no matter the setting. Also, huge mid thump is how soldano and mesas are voiced.
Today, pretty much every band has the metallica über massive guitar tones that are chracterized by a bit lower mids and huge bass range.
Some great albums that are known for their massive, mid scooped sound:
METALLICA - Master of Puppets
Motley Crüe - DR. Feelgood
Pantera - Vulgar display of power
Great sounds that are known for mid spike/mid boost
Slayer - all albums
Megadeth - Youthanasia
Which is better is pretty much a matter of taste, I personally prefer the heavier and chunkier scooped mid sound for low to mid paced sounds and for very fast rhythms it's usually better to have upper mids a bit boosted. Metallica perfected the mid scooping around the time of MoP and that album sounded fantastic! So scooping works perfectly in a band situation as long as it's not overdone.
A
alashredder
Guest
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
I'd say a totally scooped mids great example would be in Justice For All and you can hear the "dryness" of the tone. Master of Puppets may have scooped mids, but it sounded like it had too much mids from what I remember. Maybe it was the recording of the album that sounded that way? I need to listen to Master of Puppets again.
ACH91332
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
I have a Steve's Special and you don't want it. Scooping mids makes your sound really thin and the SS in comparison with pickups with good mids is very thin. For amps, rolling back the mids a bit can offer better note definition but scooping it with totally make your sound thin. I have a very powerful sound with my JVM and MXR 10-Band and I use a good amount of mids but not enough to where its flat sounding like when you have too much midrange.
A guitar's tone is 100% centered around midrange. If you dont have mids, well everyone will hear your drummer and bassist and thats about it.
I have a Steve's Special and you don't want it. Scooping mids makes your sound really thin and the SS in comparison with pickups with good mids is very thin. For amps, rolling back the mids a bit can offer better note definition but scooping it with totally make your sound thin. I have a very powerful sound with my JVM and MXR 10-Band and I use a good amount of mids but not enough to where its flat sounding like when you have too much midrange.
A guitar's tone is 100% centered around midrange. If you dont have mids, well everyone will hear your drummer and bassist and thats about it.
ACH91332
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
Dr. Feelgood is not mid scooped dude. You can hear that mid range crunch in there. Maybe thats the way the mastering is but the actual guitar tone has mids.
Master of Puppets is a great example for scooping mids. I wouldnt go as far as to say its "scooped" but it does have its mids pulled back. ..And Justice For All is what I'd call "scooped" but that albums tone = FAIL in my opinion. The tone is just "there" and nothing really special where as Master of Puppets kicked you on your ass. ..AJFA is a good example of what NOT to do as far as getting a metal tone.
And honestly, I don't dislike Dimebag by any means at all. He's a good guy and while he isn't one of my larger influences I have picked up a few of his techniques and he was a really really cool guy but never in a million years would I say he has good tone. His tone is really really thin. It has no mids it is totally scooped which totally takes the cut and voice away from the guitar. The whole buzzsaw aspect of his tone does sound cool but it comes at a huge price of totally losing voice and tone.
Just in general I will agree rolling back the mids a bit will help get a bigger sound. It allows you to crank up the lows more without getting muddy but if you cut all of the mids it just takes all the tone away and kills you in a live setting. You cant cut through a live mix at all and it will just leave you with a very thin and sterile tone.
Dr. Feelgood is not mid scooped dude. You can hear that mid range crunch in there. Maybe thats the way the mastering is but the actual guitar tone has mids.
Master of Puppets is a great example for scooping mids. I wouldnt go as far as to say its "scooped" but it does have its mids pulled back. ..And Justice For All is what I'd call "scooped" but that albums tone = FAIL in my opinion. The tone is just "there" and nothing really special where as Master of Puppets kicked you on your ass. ..AJFA is a good example of what NOT to do as far as getting a metal tone.
And honestly, I don't dislike Dimebag by any means at all. He's a good guy and while he isn't one of my larger influences I have picked up a few of his techniques and he was a really really cool guy but never in a million years would I say he has good tone. His tone is really really thin. It has no mids it is totally scooped which totally takes the cut and voice away from the guitar. The whole buzzsaw aspect of his tone does sound cool but it comes at a huge price of totally losing voice and tone.
Just in general I will agree rolling back the mids a bit will help get a bigger sound. It allows you to crank up the lows more without getting muddy but if you cut all of the mids it just takes all the tone away and kills you in a live setting. You cant cut through a live mix at all and it will just leave you with a very thin and sterile tone.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
+1. Crank up the mids on your LP, and the guy playing a Strat next to you will sound like a mosquito buzzing.
+1. Crank up the mids on your LP, and the guy playing a Strat next to you will sound like a mosquito buzzing.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
When I play by myself, I tend to go for the mid scoopage. Too much mids when playing alone can sound gross.
However, as I quickly discovered when playing live, is that if I want to be heard in a mix at all, I have to bring the mids up from where they would be if I played by myself. If I don't, the vocals, snare drum and other guitar eat my guitar's tone alive and I vanish from the mix. The JB8 pickup I run in the bridge has no shortage of mids. When playing with the guitar on that pickup, I don't have too much trouble fitting into the mix. The Jazz neck, with it's AlNiCo V magnet, is scooped in the mids relative to the JB8. When I switch to the Jazz neck, it is easier for me to disappear from the mix.
To be fair, I've only played six shows, and attended only a few more shows at the local bar type places where I would be playing. So I'm new to this whole 'playing live' thing. But noob or not, it seems to me that in every band where the guitarist(s) could be easily heard, the guitarist(s) had their mids brought up rather than pulled back.
I do think is possible to run too much mids when playing live. I wish the other guitarist in my band would pull the mids on his Marshall back from 10 to 8 or 7 or something.
When I play by myself, I tend to go for the mid scoopage. Too much mids when playing alone can sound gross.
However, as I quickly discovered when playing live, is that if I want to be heard in a mix at all, I have to bring the mids up from where they would be if I played by myself. If I don't, the vocals, snare drum and other guitar eat my guitar's tone alive and I vanish from the mix. The JB8 pickup I run in the bridge has no shortage of mids. When playing with the guitar on that pickup, I don't have too much trouble fitting into the mix. The Jazz neck, with it's AlNiCo V magnet, is scooped in the mids relative to the JB8. When I switch to the Jazz neck, it is easier for me to disappear from the mix.
To be fair, I've only played six shows, and attended only a few more shows at the local bar type places where I would be playing. So I'm new to this whole 'playing live' thing. But noob or not, it seems to me that in every band where the guitarist(s) could be easily heard, the guitarist(s) had their mids brought up rather than pulled back.
I do think is possible to run too much mids when playing live. I wish the other guitarist in my band would pull the mids on his Marshall back from 10 to 8 or 7 or something.
Last edited:
Brown Note
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
Here you are describing scooping out mids sounding both good and bad. Of course if it's done wrong it sounds bad but bad sound is definetly not inherit to taking out mids. Too much of anything is always too much, whether it is overly exaggerated or depleted mid range.
EDIT: here's how awesome scooped mids can sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87t6...96C128EE&playnext_from=PL&index=19&playnext=1
Here you are describing scooping out mids sounding both good and bad. Of course if it's done wrong it sounds bad but bad sound is definetly not inherit to taking out mids. Too much of anything is always too much, whether it is overly exaggerated or depleted mid range.
EDIT: here's how awesome scooped mids can sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87t6...96C128EE&playnext_from=PL&index=19&playnext=1
Last edited:
Gingrel
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
And this is why I turn up the bass and mids when playing my Strat.
It helps that I play a Marshall...
Midrange = win as far as I'm concerned.
And this is why I turn up the bass and mids when playing my Strat.
It helps that I play a Marshall...
Midrange = win as far as I'm concerned.
J
Jessie Sammler
Guest
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
I always thought the bass guitar was in there; it was just run through three distortion pedals and a steep low-pass filter at about 100 Hz.
I always thought the bass guitar was in there; it was just run through three distortion pedals and a steep low-pass filter at about 100 Hz.
J
Jessie Sammler
Guest
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
Why is it that sometimes when I listen to Metallica in the AJFA & beyond era, it sounds like somebody's using a chorus pedal? Even in that live clip there.
Why is it that sometimes when I listen to Metallica in the AJFA & beyond era, it sounds like somebody's using a chorus pedal? Even in that live clip there.
J
Jessie Sammler
Guest
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
Here's what I wrote about the guitar tone on AJFA in an online review of the album:
Many reviewers have noted that they find the mix sonically harsh and unpleasant. Indeed, in comparison with the seductive, old-fashioned guitar crunch of "Ride the Lightning," for example, "...And Justice for All" sounds cold, clinical, and forbidding. The guitar textures have a razor-sharp edge, the riffs and solos executed with a chilling precision that's almost surgical. Surgical like the amputation of what remained of young Johnny's limbs after the landmine. Surgical like the figurative extraction of a young person's heart as he or she comes to realize that one cannot love, trust, and feel as one might wish, but that emotions and ideas must be controlled, limited, suppressed, according to the dictates of society and circumstances.
I'm a freak for mids and crunch, but the album's guitar tone works for me.
Here's what I wrote about the guitar tone on AJFA in an online review of the album:
Many reviewers have noted that they find the mix sonically harsh and unpleasant. Indeed, in comparison with the seductive, old-fashioned guitar crunch of "Ride the Lightning," for example, "...And Justice for All" sounds cold, clinical, and forbidding. The guitar textures have a razor-sharp edge, the riffs and solos executed with a chilling precision that's almost surgical. Surgical like the amputation of what remained of young Johnny's limbs after the landmine. Surgical like the figurative extraction of a young person's heart as he or she comes to realize that one cannot love, trust, and feel as one might wish, but that emotions and ideas must be controlled, limited, suppressed, according to the dictates of society and circumstances.
I'm a freak for mids and crunch, but the album's guitar tone works for me.
ACH91332
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
Oh I am familiar with Metallica dude. There was a point where I owned every album, EP, live DVD, etc that Metallica ever put up. Except for St. Anger. That album was pure garbage haha. But honestly you would be surprised how much Metallica uses mids live. Sure I wouldnt call it "middy" at all but its nothing like an album. I have my mids pulled back but its not scooped and more times then not I will push up my mids depending on where I am performing at to maintain a good live mix.
I'm not trying to hate on pulling back mids but I am here to hate on scooping mids. MoP = Badass tone, ..AJFA = lacking tone, Metallica (Black) = BADASS TONE, Death Magnetic = Muddy tone (too much midrange, however most of the blame rests on the mastering of that album as it is too loud and overloads most sterio equipment and especially cheap iPod radio transmitters). Scooping mids literally means turning the knob all the way until its zero which sounds nasty. You get a cool razor edge but totally no voice in the tone whatsoever and its not a matter of taste its literally fact. Mids make up a guitars tone. Having no mids is nasty and having too many is nasty. Back in the day with amps people would crank the highs mids and lows all the way to make it breakup and sure recording back then wasnt the best but either way a lot of people had crappy tone. Too many mids. Too much of something isnt a good thing and scooping mids isnt a good thing.
Oh I am familiar with Metallica dude. There was a point where I owned every album, EP, live DVD, etc that Metallica ever put up. Except for St. Anger. That album was pure garbage haha. But honestly you would be surprised how much Metallica uses mids live. Sure I wouldnt call it "middy" at all but its nothing like an album. I have my mids pulled back but its not scooped and more times then not I will push up my mids depending on where I am performing at to maintain a good live mix.
I'm not trying to hate on pulling back mids but I am here to hate on scooping mids. MoP = Badass tone, ..AJFA = lacking tone, Metallica (Black) = BADASS TONE, Death Magnetic = Muddy tone (too much midrange, however most of the blame rests on the mastering of that album as it is too loud and overloads most sterio equipment and especially cheap iPod radio transmitters). Scooping mids literally means turning the knob all the way until its zero which sounds nasty. You get a cool razor edge but totally no voice in the tone whatsoever and its not a matter of taste its literally fact. Mids make up a guitars tone. Having no mids is nasty and having too many is nasty. Back in the day with amps people would crank the highs mids and lows all the way to make it breakup and sure recording back then wasnt the best but either way a lot of people had crappy tone. Too many mids. Too much of something isnt a good thing and scooping mids isnt a good thing.
copperheadroads
New member
Re: +Mids .vs. Scooped mids?
i agree the last time i have heard about scooped mids was all about american metal & metallica back in the late 80's where there was actually gain . now its come up again but now its strat pickups and cleans not distorted tones . big dippers ....
i agree the last time i have heard about scooped mids was all about american metal & metallica back in the late 80's where there was actually gain . now its come up again but now its strat pickups and cleans not distorted tones . big dippers ....
