Moving from high output to moderate output.

[superdara3000]

Hey folks,

I'm a metal player who regularly uses both standard and dropped tunings.

Up until now my only experience with bridge pickups has been the higher output models, specifically the Distortion, also the JB and the hot rail.

Recently I've been reading about the benefits of using more moderate output humbuckers, the likes of the Custom 5, the 59/custom hybrid, screamin' demon and the likes to get more clarity across extended chords and more dynamics for lead playing. I've already seen the benefits of using lower output neck pickups like the pearly gates and cool rails, paired with the Distortion for better cleans and more dynamic lead work.

My question really is, is the drop in output significant enough to the point where I would miss it?
I like alot of what the Distortion does, it's great for cutting through the mix in a live setting, and it handles the lower tunings really well, also harmonics jump out from it. I find it can be a touch harsh in the higher mids and highs though.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the distortion vs the custom 5 for example?

Any help appreciated!

 

[dominus]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

Most of those will be just fine, but you probably will be disappointed by the Screamin' Demon. It is *not* medium output. It's low output. Here's a chart where they attempted to list pickup output in mV:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?278978-Seymour-Duncan-mV-Data

According to that chart, the Screamin' Demon has less output than the Jazz or 59.

If you like a lot of what the Distortion does but find it harsh, swap it for a Black Winter.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

Have you tried fiddling with the volume knob on the guitar? You could roll it back a bit for rhythms, then crank it for solos so you get the full effect of the Distortion-class pickup.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

Most of those will be just fine, but you probably will be disappointed by the Screamin' Demon. It is *not* medium output. It's low output. Here's a chart where they attempted to list pickup output in mV:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?278978-Seymour-Duncan-mV-Data

According to that chart, the Screamin' Demon has less output than the Jazz or 59.

If you like a lot of what the Distortion does but find it harsh, swap it for a Black Winter.

I always though ot the Demon as being a Medium Output...according the SD Website is it "Moderate Output" which I'm guessing is another way of saying a lower medium. lol

 

[LazNovak]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

If you want tight low end and nice highs with crunchy/cutting mids to play metal (rhythm and lead) I'd go for the Alternative 8. It's high output but cleans up very well.

 

[dominus]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I always though ot the Demon as being a Medium Output...according the SD Website is it "Moderate Output" which I'm guessing is another way of saying a lower medium. lol

I thought the Pearly Gates was better for metal than the Screamin' Demon.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

*EDIT* Nevermind, misread.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I thought the Pearly Gates was better for metal than the Screamin' Demon.

I've rarely messed in Metal music and majority of my tones are going to more of a hard rock sound that the Demon nails (for me at least.) I have not tried the Pearly Gates–that is on a long PU Bucket list I want to try eventually lol

 

[HALENisking]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I thought the Pearly Gates was better for metal than the Screamin' Demon.

That's a fine opinion, but the Screamin demon is definitely higher output than the pearly gates, and is in the moderate output territory. just to be clear with the OP.

 

[Progbusters]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

those low output pearly gates and screaming demon will sound amazing for soloing but for riffs, they'll be loose unless you're into hard rock, trudging power metal, or doom where the power chords need to ring out or your'e playing slower.

for clean stuff, yeah lowering the volume will help all pickups. The Distortion sounds really cool played clean.

 

[dominus]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

That's a fine opinion, but the Screamin demon is definitely higher output than the pearly gates, and is in the moderate output territory. just to be clear with the OP.

That would be your opinion.

Here's the official measurements from SD:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?278978-Seymour-Duncan-mV-Data

SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500

 

[HALENisking]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

That would be your opinion.

Here's the official measurements from SD:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?278978-Seymour-Duncan-mV-Data

SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500

I guess I'm confused then. On the site, PG reads 8.35k
Screamin Demon reads 10k


EDIT: Read the thread more thoroughly... I won't hijack THIS thread, but this is confusing for obvious reasons.

I stand corrected. I understand now why Dimarzio uses mV more on their site

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I guess I'm confused then. On the site, PG reads 8.35k
Screamin Demon reads 10k


EDIT: Read the thread more thoroughly... I won't hijack THIS thread, but this is confusing for obvious reasons.

I stand corrected. I understand now why Dimarzio uses mV more on their site

DC resistance does NOT equal output... It just says which has more wire on it.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

That would be your opinion.

Here's the official measurements from SD:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?278978-Seymour-Duncan-mV-Data

SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500

There are tons of anomalies on that list I certaintly wouldnt use it as 100% gospel

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I have had the most success with a Full Shred set.

Folks also tell me they are fine for drop tunings.

The low end will be slightly mushy. You'll need to compensate by setting your amp's bass a little higher if you want more thump.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

Regarding the PG's suitableness for metal, I've tried a bridge version in the neck, and based on that, I would agree that it's a fine pickup for more than just blues.

It's unfortunate that low to mid output pickups don't get the credit they deserve for more aggressive music, mostly due to marketing.

You may struggle with a pickup that is too hot, but it won't be much of a problem to juice a lower output pup at a later point in your signal chain, usually via a boost before the amp.

 

[dominus]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

Regarding the PG's suitableness for metal, I've tried a bridge version in the neck, and based on that, I would agree that it's a fine pickup for more than just blues.

It's unfortunate that low to mid output pickups don't get the credit they deserve for more aggressive music, mostly due to marketing.

You may struggle with a pickup that is too hot, but it won't be much of a problem to juice a lower output pup at a later point in your signal chain, usually via a boost before the amp.

I got some amazing black metal tones with a Pearly Gates in a BC Rich Warlock. (I actually bought the guitar used and it had those pickups installed.)

I think going for a lower output pickup is fine for cleans, but if you need to boost the pickup for output, you're going to add some noise along the way. (Oddly enough, I just swapped out actives for passives and have a lower noise floor now. Did not expect that.)

 

[Aku Tonklips]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

I think you'd be better off with muiltple guitars instead than changing one guitar's sound. Plus, it's time consuming to constantly tune up one guitar live and puts more strain on the strings. I would get the same guitar and upgrade to the pickups of your choice and use the guitars for different songs ranging from standard to d on one and how many you need for the rest of the other tunings.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Moving from high output to moderate output.

It's unfortunate that low to mid output pickups don't get the credit they deserve for more aggressive music, mostly due to marketing.

And that is true for high output pickups as well–the Dimebucker is high output and gets some of the best articulate clean tones of any pickup I've used. Hotrails are incredible for bluesey clean tones and I've used both the Dimebucker and Hotrails for playing hymns at Church.

You may struggle with a pickup that is too hot, but it won't be much of a problem to juice a lower output pup at a later point in your signal chain, usually via a boost before the amp.

I am going to politely disagree with this statement–it is not a matter of output that determines "too hot" as there are so many variables and you can have low output pickups in a chain through an amp and still be "too hot".


Personally I think the approach is wrong–you have to find out what works best for you. I use mainly Moderate to High Output pickups because they work for me. I don't look at a pickup and say "high output it will work for me." I've been surprised by unsuspecting tones from low to extreme output pickups.