NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

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Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

Oooh..

I just treid some new preamp tubes and it is much improved.

There are four preamp tubes in there. From right to left there are three close together and then one far right (which I assume is either part of the loop or power section.) The first tube is a TAD 7025 "higrade", and the others are Ruby 12ax7AC5.

I have a few loose tubes that were not favorites, but pretty good. Without digging into another amp, I have a Groove Tubes ECC83 Gold, and a "China 12ax7b".

Neither tube improved upon the TAD, but when I replaced v2 and v3 with my tubes, the sound got a bit more gainy and harmonically rich and the noise is a bit lower. Maybe I should get some really good tubes for this and see what it can do. Replacing both of those rubies was a step in the right direction.

The irony is that if I decide to keep it I may exchange it anyway because of the flickering power bulb and some minor cosmetic defects.

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

I think the noise floor is alot lower. I have been using a Behringer NR300 in the loop and before it coudn't really mask the noise, now it is keeping up and the gain is a bit higher.

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

This amp is hard to figure out, but very versatile. Alot of the negative things I said about the amp were because of the stock preamp tubes. With exception of the first position, they were noisy and lacked harmonics. Once I got the harmonic content and was able to raise the gain a bit more without too much noise, I started really digging in to what the amp can do. Going to keep this, hopefully post some clips later.

Amp needs new tubes and has a clearer tone on top so benefits from speakers with some top aggression, or perhaps pickups with an agressive top. The wattage control imparts tube saturation at lower volumes, before it would happen normally. The wattage control is the "voice" of the amp, so if you like the colder more accurate, drop tuned sounds, probably should get the 120 watt for live metal gigs.

Despite what the advertizing says, with the wattage on low settings, it sounds like a cold amp run at low volume, more accurate, harsher. This is not necesarily a bad thing, I know alot of style use this kind of sound and tailor the top end with eq. Because the wattage control seems to impart character (fuller, more rounded tone with mid push) before it would normally occur, its possible to get cranked amp tone at lower volumes. It is effective and honestly this happens closer to the volume that you would be playing on stage, unless you have a loud drummer.

 

[Hank-]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

That's good update. I think the amp will be biased cold as well which may be causing it to sound harsher. A full retube & rebias may help these amps alot from factory condition. Kinda annoying though to go about changing all the tubes on a new amp within a week. If it allows the use of El34 tubes instead of 6L6's then that type might help out with the upper midrange & top end as well.

Anyways, atleast it's getting around to be a keeper

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

That's good update. I think the amp will be biased cold as well which may be causing it to sound harsher. A full retube & rebias may help these amps alot from factory condition. Kinda annoying though to go about changing all the tubes on a new amp within a week. If it allows the use of El34 tubes instead of 6L6's then that type might help out with the upper midrange & top end as well.

Anyways, atleast it's getting around to be a keeper

The TAD 6L6 tubes in there are quite good; I put them in the JSX and they sounded better than the Ruby EL34s I had in there. The first gain stage is a TAD selected 12ax7 which is also quite good. v2,v3, and v4 ship with darkish, middling 12ax7s. I replaced v2 and v3 with two old late80s tubes from a Hafler Triple Giant (Hafler 12ax7, I have no idea on their origin beyond the Hafler stamp and that I kept them when I sold the TG. They are my "best" tubes.) I put a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS in v4 and it's sounding killer. Still wish for more clean headroom.

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

I have been doing a ton of tube swaps in this thing to see what is best. My initial complaint was that it seemed too dark and not enough harmonic content, and not particularly "gainy". The notes seemed kinda choked and not hot enough, needed to dig into the strings too much to get them to sing, needed to use more of the boost control to get saturation, yet things seemed a little anemic, especially for a high gain head.

I was watching this guy on youtube and his amp seemed to have much more gain than mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loMIsl8Pqq4

The fix is to put a GT ECC83-S in the first or second stage. It needs a really hot tube in one (or both) of these slots. Now its got that "hot glass" sound on top with roar in the middle. I prefer the ECC83-S in the first stage, but with a really hot tube here, the boost control more easily pushes the amp into mud. But I found that with a 12ax7a in the second slot (mid grade, mid-high output chinese) the boost and gain controls are very effective for dialing in the style of distortion you want. With the ECC83-S in the first stage, you can put boost on 7-10 and put gain on 3-5 and get a warmer, fuller sound. If you put boost on zero and gain on 8-10, you get more hair, more harmonics.

The closest amp I have played to this was probably the ADA MP-1. That thing also had the "hot glass" sound going on (think Paul Gilbert). Shredding in the upper registers has an open sound with a clack pick attack, a bit of whine, and overflowing with some extra harmonics so its complicated but not compressed. The ADA MP-1 also had the dual gain staging control and this amp reminds me of that.

The first stage really needs a hot tube, which on first blush will make the boost control almost useless, but it gives you another option in gain voicing (Before I was using the boost to get enough saturation, now its a choice).

I may order another ECC83-s to see what two really hot tubes do in v1 and v2. I find that v3 and v4 are more useful in setting the "EQ" or character of the amp. I think after the hot/bright tubes in 1 and 2 it needs some mellowing. I am using the TAD7025 and sovtek lps in these slots respectively.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

Is that a torroidal transformer that I see on the right-hand side? If so... ewwww. I've had a few modern Traynors that had them that I thought were good amps... until I played ACTUAL good amps.

Though there are plenty of exceptions... I've found that the closer I spend on $1K on a tube amp, the tones drastically improve. So I rarely find myself looking at bargain amps any more. Been there, done that.

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

Is that a torroidal transformer that I see on the right-hand side? If so... ewwww. I've had a few modern Traynors that had them that I thought were good amps... until I played ACTUAL good amps.

Though there are plenty of exceptions... I've found that the closer I spend on $1K on a tube amp, the tones drastically improve. So I rarely find myself looking at bargain amps any more. Been there, done that.

You're misinformed.
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1134&sid=5a0e6c55c559595daf87b6a670dc5690

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=68141

 

[Red_Label]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

You're misinformed.
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1134&sid=5a0e6c55c559595daf87b6a670dc5690

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=68141

"Misinformed" is probably not the right word you were looking for. Perhaps "painting with a broad brush" or something to that effect would have been more appropriate. I based my opinion not on heresay, but on actual experience with a couple of amps that have torroidal transformers.

Anyways... I did read the links that you posted and there is some material to digest and consider there. I'll still state that I don't like them. They don't look right. They look cheap. Having said that, most of the amps that use them are not high-dollar amps, built with mil-spec components. So their lack of richness of tone and build quality are admittedly more a function of their price-point than the torroidal transformers wired in them.

 

[Top-L]

Re: NAD: Laney Ironheart 60H

Did some more testing with the IRT60H and figured out more about the wattage control. I ran an external floorboard processor (Fender Mustang) directly to the power section, and I found that if the level out from the FMF is high, it induces power tube saturation just as if the levels from the Ironheart channels are high.

So this saturation affect is confined to the power section of the Ironheart. If you hit it with a hot signal, it somehow induces what sounds like power tube distortion. Because of this the amp has less clean headroom than you would expect for an amp of this wattage, but the saturation occurs at a more reasonable volume. So this head can definitely get "that sound" at any volume level. (I said it sounds "like" power tube distortion, and this is from someone who is used to listening to cranked/miked tube amps. The only difference is that if you run the input signal really hot, and the output stage on full, you get too much saturation, imo. So, I'm not sure if it is real tube saturation or some kind of trick.)

Its cool because even on the clean channel, if you add a bit of boost and crank the channel volume you can get an ACDC tone from all power tube distortion at a reasonable level. However, too much of this on distorted signals makes it sound muddy, but there is a sweet spot that sounds glorious. And you can get it at any volume level.

Anyway, this amp is worth owning for any gigging guitarist who always wanted their sound at reasonable volume, even if you use it with another preamp. The dynamics(resonance) and tone(presence) make this a versatile power section that matches well to any preamp or cab. Also, the power section itself is quiet, the noise of the amp is all from the preamp section when gains are cranked.

Really happy with this purchase. The wattage control and the versatile preamp controls make this worth looking at, regardless of its low price. I think for anyone in a metal band, because of the early saturation, the 120H is probably a better choice.

Next step is to put a 12at7 in the last tube stage and see what affect it has on the tube saturation. It may give it more clean headroom.