New ENGL amp looks amazing

[orpheo]

There are projects coming up within the USA to relaunch tube manufacturing. Slovakia is also having a tube factory. I am not seeing it happen that tube factories will go all together, in fact, the opposite. What used to be outsourced to Russia and/or China is now being pulled back to the West. Tubes? I'm not worried, at all.

Bad tone worries me much more. That's why I refuse to play on solid state. My god those machines suck.

 

[orpheo]

Me rambling here, but there is really no reason for boutique tube amps anymore with something like an Axe FX, Kemper, or software if you record.

Bogner, Diezel, Engl, and Randall all sort of cover the same ground if you insist on high gain tube or solid state amps.

I'd buy one of these used, but I wouldn't shell out a lot for it.

I wouldn't really buy a tube amp nowadays unless it were something that offered unique functionality, like a 6505 with EL34s, a capability/sound the original didn't offer with its 6L6s and something many people like now.

(Now that I think of it, when's the last time I saw an amp with ECC83s?)

I also have what's called an "integrated quad" in my Carvin MTS3200 (JCM800 clone). 2 6L6s and 2 EL34s.

Some of these new amps--they're like Mesa Road Kings in complexity. These days, I just want that in software.

Flat power amp, flat cabs, flat mics, and impulse responses out the wazoo will cover most bases if the crowd can even tell the difference in tone.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

I used to have a Kemper next to my Revv. The Revv sounded infinitely better than the Kemper. Just not funny how shitty those modeler amps are. Complete garbage.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I used to have a Kemper next to my Revv. The Revv sounded infinitely better than the Kemper. Just not funny how ****ty those modeler amps are. Complete garbage.

I've never tried the Kemper, personally. But the AxeFX stuff records well.

Sadly, I'm in a position where it's really rare that I get the chance to crank a 100W head and a 4x12. I admit there is something magic about the visceral experience of doing so. Back in Mexico, I loved getting tones by mic'ing up my actual 4x12. It was fun. But these days, listening through headphones, I feel like I get tones from my HX Stomp (with good IR's) that are as good if not better than mic'ing up my 4x12 in a shitty untreated room with a budget consumer-grade interface's preamps and converters. And the HX isn't even on the same level as the Fractal stuff, IMO.

I would go back to playing and mic'ing real amps if I had the chance again. But I don't think the digital stuff is complete garbage. It's more than usable in many situations.

 

[Inflames626]

I used to have a Kemper next to my Revv. The Revv sounded infinitely better than the Kemper. Just not funny how ****ty those modeler amps are. Complete garbage.

All about knowing how to dial it in.

 

[Inflames626]

I've never tried the Kemper, personally. But the AxeFX stuff records well.

Sadly, I'm in a position where it's really rare that I get the chance to crank a 100W head and a 4x12. I admit there is something magic about the visceral experience of doing so. Back in Mexico, I loved getting tones by mic'ing up my actual 4x12. It was fun. But these days, listening through headphones, I feel like I get tones from my HX Stomp (with good IR's) that are as good if not better than mic'ing up my 4x12 in a ****ty untreated room with a budget consumer-grade interface's preamps and converters. And the HX isn't even on the same level as the Fractal stuff, IMO.

I would go back to playing and mic'ing real amps if I had the chance again. But I don't think the digital stuff is complete garbage. It's more than usable in many situations.

****ty untreated room is a point I wanted to make.

Better a slightly inferior simulation than the real thing recorded in a location with limitations that make the real thing sound like ****.

And it still doesn't solve tubes becoming harder and harder to obtain. If you turn up your bias for a better tone, the tubes will run hotter, and you will need more of them to replace the ones you burn up, especially if you are gigging.

Don't get me wrong. I love tubes. But they are like using V8s, V10s, or V12 engines as daily drivers when a V6 or even 4 cylinder will do thanks to technological advancements.

 

[Inflames626]

There are projects coming up within the USA to relaunch tube manufacturing. Slovakia is also having a tube factory. I am not seeing it happen that tube factories will go all together, in fact, the opposite. What used to be outsourced to Russia and/or China is now being pulled back to the West. Tubes? I'm not worried, at all.

Bad tone worries me much more. That's why I refuse to play on solid state. My god those machines suck.

I don't see how they can keep tubes at a reasonable price if they are made in the West. I wouldn't consider Slovakia, Hungary, or Poland safe locations now due to increasingly authoritarian governments there.

If you run your bias cold and only record, you may never need a retube. But if you up the voltage and gig nightly...well, you'll be spending on tubes.

Plus there's the reliability issues of tubes vs. solid state.

70s-00s solid state and digital, yes, bad in places, especially distorted. But since 2006 or so we have had a revolution in technology. Open source free impulse response trading, etc., will also help.

It's like when George Lucas asked Disney why they were using practical effects for new Star Wars movies when they could do CGI more easily. The answer he got was more or less was, "Because you used practical effects."

I'm in the George camp. I prefer using new stuff unless there's a used piece of gear that's old that I really love and know how to dial in well.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think they had mention the new US tube factory will make 12AX7's. Not sure if for the time being or forever. But meh. Plenty of good 12AX7's can be had. Even the Shuguang stuff which is now NOS is good, cheap, and easy to find.

 

[Inflames626]

I think they had mention the new US tube factory will make 12AX7's. Not sure if for the time being or forever. But meh. Plenty of good 12AX7's can be had. Even the Shuguang stuff which is now NOS is good, cheap, and easy to find.

I used J&J, which was sold to me by Eurotubes. I'm fairly sure Mesa Boogie and other company branded tube stuff was made by someone else and relabeled.

I remember Sovtek not being the greatest sounding tubes but being very rugged and reliable.

I just don't know how they can justify vacuum tube factories considering the limited use of those parts in devices now. The music industry alone isn't going to be enough to support that. It would be like opening a carburetor factory just for classic car enthusiasts.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I used J&J, which was sold to me by Eurotubes. I'm fairly sure Mesa Boogie and other company branded tube stuff was made by someone else and relabeled.

I remember Sovtek not being the greatest sounding tubes but being very rugged and reliable.

I just don't know how they can justify vacuum tube factories considering the limited use of those parts in devices now. The music industry alone isn't going to be enough to support that. It would be like opening a carburetor factory just for classic car enthusiasts.

I don't mind JJ's. I have had both good experiences with their preamp tubes (reliability, mostly, as their tone is not my favorite) but terrible experience with their power tubes (never actually had a set that didn't fail on me). I've just had bad luck, tho. I'm sure they're alright as many people use them.

I love the tone of Sovtek power tubes. They have a certain rasp and trashiness that sits right with me. And I haven't found anything better than the Sovtek LPS for Phase Inverter positions. Other than that, yeah. Meh on the WA/B/C's.

I would never buy from Eurotubes, tho. I'm sure they test and screen their tubes thoroughly and whatnot. But their site is just plain ridiculous. They very much go out and say everything is crap except JJ. Then their "integrated quads". Peavey techs said that it makes their amps break (with the risk of taking out a transformer), and Eurotubes downright went and said Peavey guys are stupid or something like that, LOL.

I like a few JJ tubes. The ECC803S sounds fantastic, but then again, it's not the best for V1's on high-gainers because the long plate makes it prone to microphonics. The 6V6S's are the best 6V6's I've tried. Hell, I even like the divisive ECC83S in some cases. But many of their power tubes... meh (for me). Their E34L's broke my Peavey XXX. Their 6L6's are meh to me. I'd rather have pretty much anything else Russian or Chinese. Same as their EL84's. Bottom line of what I'm saying is for me, since I don't have any sort of endorsement deals, I wouldn't go out and use JJ's across the board seeing there are "better" options from other manufacturers because some tubes work better doing different chores.

 

[Inflames626]

I don't mind JJ's. I have had both good experiences with their preamp tubes (reliability, mostly, as their tone is not my favorite) but terrible experience with their power tubes (never actually had a set that didn't fail on me). I've just had bad luck, tho. I'm sure they're alright as many people use them.

I love the tone of Sovtek power tubes. They have a certain rasp and trashiness that sits right with me. And I haven't found anything better than the Sovtek LPS for Phase Inverter positions. Other than that, yeah. Meh on the WA/B/C's.

I would never buy from Eurotubes, tho. I'm sure they test and screen their tubes thoroughly and whatnot. But their site is just plain ridiculous. They very much go out and say everything is crap except JJ. Then their "integrated quads". Peavey techs said that it makes their amps break (with the risk of taking out a transformer), and Eurotubes downright went and said Peavey guys are stupid or something like that, LOL.

I like a few JJ tubes. The ECC803S sounds fantastic, but then again, it's not the best for V1's on high-gainers because the long plate makes it prone to microphonics. The 6V6S's are the best 6V6's I've tried. Hell, I even like the divisive ECC83S in some cases. But many of their power tubes... meh (for me). Their E34L's broke my Peavey XXX. Their 6L6's are meh to me. I'd rather have pretty much anything else Russian or Chinese. Same as their EL84's. Bottom line of what I'm saying is for me, since I don't have any sort of endorsement deals, I wouldn't go out and use JJ's across the board seeing there are "better" options from other manufacturers because some tubes work better doing different chores.

Bob Pletka at Eurotubes certainly has his opinions. And yep heir site looks like it's from the 90s.

This retube was done maybe 20 years ago by my friend who used to do electronics for the Air Force. I'd never touch an amp to bias it. You know way more about that than me. I barely turn the amp on now due to plugins.

On my Carvin, the retube/rebias didn't do much but make the cleans warmer and fuller. I didn't use a pedal to boost the front back then. And the MTS3200 was Carvin's replacement for the X100B (Vai/Zappa) amp. Above that they had the original Vai Legacy head which sounded to me in the Hollywood store like a Plexi. Way too "velvety" for my tastes.

 

[Inflames626]

Most everybody likes Groove Tubes, or did.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Most everybody likes Groove Tubes, or did.

When I first started having tube amps, almost every review I read on Groove Tubes was negative, LOL.

They do sell some rebranded JJ's under the GT brand, BTW.

My GT-branded Shuguangs 12AX7's for some reason were always the least microphonic.

 

[dave74]

Tubes can last so many years in a well made amp, even many decades unless you are a pro touring musician running them several times a week hard and loud.
People change caps and tubes mostly because they are afraid of problems, not because there actually are problems, that and they just want a different tone, and tubes are cheaper than amps.

 

[Inflames626]

Tubes can last so many years in a well made amp, even many decades unless you are a pro touring musician running them several times a week hard and loud.
People change caps and tubes mostly because they are afraid of problems, not because there actually are problems, that and they just want a different tone, and tubes are cheaper than amps.

My understanding is most tube amp biases are set cold to prolong tube life and to discourage people adjusting the biases themselves since it isn't really a user serviceable part unless one has some electrical training.

Bob Pletka or Eurotubes, the company Rex_Rocker and I were discussing, is a big proponent of running a very hot bias for a better tone. He also likes to mix 6L6s and EL34s in the same amp, of which my Carvin MTS3200 is an example. I did this perhaps around 2002. Don't use the amp much anymore.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Bad tone worries me much more. That's why I refuse to play on solid state. My god those machines suck.

Different flavors is all ..if you know what you're doing they're all capable of sweet tones :bigthumb:

120W Solid State:

Cheap modeler:

120W tube head:

I mean, there are amp's mentioned in this thread that I think really suck (won't mention names) in spite of them having tubes in them....so it's a matter of personal taste more than actual reality.

 

[orpheo]

Different flavors is all ..if you know what you're doing they're all capable of sweet tones :bigthumb:

120W Solid State:

Cheap modeler:

120W tube head:

I mean, there are amp's mentioned in this thread that I think really suck (won't mention names) in spite of them having tubes in them....so it's a matter of personal taste more than actual reality.

I have never played a solidstate amp that sounds nearly as good as my Revv, my old JCM's or an SLO. And those high-end solidstates are EXPENSIVE.

Even a profiled Kemper sounds meh. It's like having s*x with 10 condoms on. You get a sense of what it could've been but it's just a waste of effort and money.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Well amp's like JCM's and SLO's are iconic for a reason....you probably won't play many tube amp's that are in that league either...

I don't mind modeler's ..they have theirr place (great for recording and practice). I just would'nt gig one live myself or spend big bucks on one. I find them lacking something in a live setting. (punch, power presence depth....)

Solid State (as in analog solid state as opposed to digital) on the other hand, I certainly would (and often did) gig...they lack nothing for me. Like I said , I don't see them as "better" or "worse" .... just different, the way two tube amp's are different from each other. And I like variety...