New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

[Funkfingers]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

We were discussing new products to release and one of the things we're talking about are on-board circuits for guitar. They could be mid-boost, EQ, or anything for that matter.

What do you think about that?

Would you buy one for your guitar?

If so, what product sounds the coolest to you?

If so, how much would you pay?

Our goal is to give you the tools you need. Thank you in advance for offering your opinions here.

This is a big topic.

I play both guitar and bass. I find that my approach and attitude to onboard electronics is different for the respective instruments.

On bass, it is often sufficient to dial up one good tone and use it through an entire piece of music. On guitar, it is often necessary to vary the sound(s) for different sections of one piece of music and back again.

Active three band equalisation is excellent for making small, incremental changes to the overall tone of a (largely) single note instrument. Active multi-band EQ is not convenient for making rapid shifts of tone. Also, cutting/boosting discreet frequency bands can have a detrimental effect on chords.

Simple, variable midrange boost is a boon to Stratocaster players. For some reason, I have never fancied the idea of a mid-booster on a Telecaster. Maybe the T has enough midrange already?

I have experimented with the EMG EXG and SPC circuits. I swiftly got hissed off at them. (Too much op-amp noise at high boost settings.)

I own an example of the 1980s SD Tone Circuits Midrange EQ Prototype. (As seen on Frank Zappa's blonde Performance "Stratocaster".) I was about to mount in inside an old effect pedal case. Er, haven't you already made a product that does this?

Some ideas, such as an onboard envelope filter built into a bass guitar, are brilliant but they immediately turn the instrument into a niche product, thereby limiting potential sales.

My gist is that most of the products that guitarists and bassists might want are already available.

 

[jeremy]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

i think an adjustable mid boost that works with passive pups would be cool. something along the lines of the emg spc. i used to put one in every guitar that i had with emgs and found them very useful

 

[B2D]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

i think an adjustable mid boost that works with passive pups would be cool. something along the lines of the emg spc. i used to put one in every guitar that i had with emgs and found them very useful

You're basically describing the Clapton mid boost... that circuit requires a battery to work but the pickups themselves are passive. A Duncan version of that would be great. A selectable curve or a Knob/switch controlling Q would be awesome.

I'd imagine that, being active circuitry, it would meld into the Blackout pickup systems nicely. :naughty:

 

[jeremy]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

i have the clapton boost in a guitar and its cool but there is actually two circuits in that. one that is on all the time and another that is the mid boost. id prefer it without the always on preamp boost and if it was smaller like the emg unit

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I personally wouldn't be interested in them at all. With the exception of the SFX-01/Afterburner I see all that other stuff that isn't midi etc as polishing a turd. I mean an active EQ COULD be helpful but it's going to occupy entirely too much space in a guitar. Even if it was just for strats think what a pain changing the battery will be.

Luke

 

[jimijames]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I personally wouldn't be interested in them at all. With the exception of the SFX-01/Afterburner I see all that other stuff that isn't midi etc as polishing a turd. I mean an active EQ COULD be helpful but it's going to occupy entirely too much space in a guitar. Even if it was just for strats think what a pain changing the battery will be.

Luke

And a truly active eq would require a bunch of knobs on the guitar. I do like Uopt's idea about the filter though, although it would be difficult to figure out how to correctly market that. And in addition, I think a sfx-01 as an onboard device would be really cool, especially if you coupled it with a selectable boost - a three way switch for treble, mid, and full (transparent) boost. Could be a really versatile and cool unit to put on strats and teles. Because you could choose which frequency to boost, it'd be a lot simpler than having controls for each band. However, it would be less versatile...

 

[B2D]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

And in addition, I think a sfx-01 as an onboard device would be really cool, especially if you coupled it with a selectable boost - a three way switch for treble, mid, and full (transparent) boost. Could be a really versatile and cool unit to put on strats and teles. Because you could choose which frequency to boost, it'd be a lot simpler than having controls for each band. However, it would be less versatile...

I'm seeing a lot of support for this idea in this thread and I think this is the best idea of all of them. I've never seen another pedal quite like the SFX01, and I think that having an onboard version of it could be one more cool thing to add to the "exclusively from Duncan" pile.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please

Re: New Products - Opinions Please

A single-knobbed mid boost with a mini-switch to select 2 or three different curves could be very neat.

Big +1!

 

[uOpt]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

And a truly active eq would require a bunch of knobs on the guitar. I do like Uopt's idea about the filter though, although it would be difficult to figure out how to correctly market that. And in addition, I think a sfx-01 as an onboard device would be really cool, especially if you coupled it with a selectable boost - a three way switch for treble, mid, and full (transparent) boost. Could be a really versatile and cool unit to put on strats and teles. Because you could choose which frequency to boost, it'd be a lot simpler than having controls for each band. However, it would be less versatile...

Another reason why I think onboard makes more sense with passive circuits (such as the LCR) is that there is no reason not to move -say- a parametric EQ into a pedal.

Where it has less power problems, can be midified, can be put behind some other pedal (as opposed to be forced to be first). The only difference is the presence of the guitar cable in the passive part of the circuit, but keep in mind pickups are designed and players are conditioned to have that load capacitance. When putting an active circuit into the guitar you usually emulate the cable by using a capacitor of about the same value between pickups and first active gizmo.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I've got a guitar with EMG HZ3s and the TurboCharger (the one on the push/pull knob). I like it with those pickups but only when it's on about 3. Anything higher and it sounds like a weak boost pedal.

That said, and to go with Funk's post, I don't see the point of a 20 dB Gain boost. Maybe 5 or 10 dB tops.
If there's a drastic difference between a 20 dB boost being on 3 and a 5 dB boost being maxed, then make it a 20 dB circuit that only allows 5 or 10 dB boost to actually go out the door. If that's possible (like using a 150w transformer in an amp but the amp is only pushing 4w).

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I like the on-board SFX-01.

I like the mid-boost knob. Something with three or four settings in a single knob with detents at each setting.

I would like to see a semi-parametric EQ, just bass and treble, but with either a center frequency or a Q for each. (Both center frequency and Q would be too much.) I would replace the tone controls on a Strat or a Les Paul with that. I'd drill an extra hole in an Ibanez for that.

I don't have any desire for on-board effects, overdrive, chorus, etc. That's what pedals are for. Seriously.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I'm seeing a lot of support for this idea in this thread and I think this is the best idea of all of them. I've never seen another pedal quite like the SFX01, and I think that having an onboard version of it could be one more cool thing to add to the "exclusively from Duncan" pile.

The SFX-01 is the old Afterburner if memory serves.

I'd buy one, but only if it didn't pop like mine does, since day one might I add, or pickup Spanish radio stations., also since day one.

Luke

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

Artec, GFS and others are selling active mod-boards for around $35. Chances are your prices will be undercut by these competitors, so you either have to deliver something they don't make or something of far superior quality and easier to use. The trend doesn't look like its going to bottom out soon, but it is questionable how you can compete price wise? I also question whether these mod-boards wouldn't make better pedals, than permanent guitar modifications? Why not make a mid-boost pedal rather than a mid-boost circuit for the guitar?

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

Being much more widely available will help with competition. I buy Seymour Duncans because they're installed as original equipment in tons of guitars, so I can try them out, plus tons of bricks n' mortar and online dealers sell them. With Duncan stuff being as good as it is, I don't feel the need to seek out less-expensive offerings from other manufacturers. If you can get Duncan, why putz around with EMG Select?

 

[theodie]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

i think an adjustable mid boost that works with passive pups would be cool. something along the lines of the emg spc. i used to put one in every guitar that i had with emgs and found them very useful

+1. I have used it with passives with great results too. The problem with the SPC and EMG's onboards are, hardly anyone knows about it and EMG does not really market it and all its possible uses. I think Duncan could make their own version of it, market it like they do, and make a great product for the masses and sell alot of units. I see so many threads where someone likes their tone with whatever pickup but, they want a little of of this or that. A unit like this could fill that void quite well.

 

[theodie]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I personally wouldn't be interested in them at all. With the exception of the SFX-01/Afterburner I see all that other stuff that isn't midi etc as polishing a turd. I mean an active EQ COULD be helpful but it's going to occupy entirely too much space in a guitar. Even if it was just for strats think what a pain changing the battery will be.

Luke

Changing the battery, it should last about 1500-3000 hours if you dont leave your guitar plugged in all the time and it could be changed in 10 minutes by an experienced hand. Not a huge hurdle to gain alot more versatility.

 

[Jessie Sammler]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

+1. I have used it with passives with great results too. The problem with the SPC and EMG's onboards are, hardly anyone knows about it and EMG does not really market it and all its possible uses. I think Duncan could make their own version of it, market it like they do, and make a great product for the masses and sell alot of units. I see so many threads where someone likes their tone with whatever pickup but, they want a little of of this or that. A unit like this could fill that void quite well.

I agree. EMG makes a lot of OEM actives, but they don't offer nearly as much stuff over-the-counter. You can take a BTC (bass tone control) and slap it in a guitar, and it's pretty cool. (This is an active bass/treble tone control that's housed in a concentric pot. It's center-detented and has both cut and boost. Inside are DIP switches for the center freq. or contour or something.) A product like that marketed for guitar could be a killer.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I once put a Jackson JE-2000 bass board (20dB boost/cut on the highs and lows) inside a 2-hum guitar and got great Funk-type sounds when both hums were split. While the freqs were not adjustable, I think that one addition would truly make most any pickup tailorable to each player - as was stated, if one pickup has great treble but needs more beef, crank the bass knob a bit and there it is.
Being able to dial in the precise freq you want with a trim pot would make it as indespensible as strings.

 

[jmh151]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

I've been experimenting with LCR networks (sometimes called CRL networks). They are passive circuits, so people might actually buy them, as opposed to general adversity to active circuits.

A LCR network removes impedance from the pickup circuit without removing resistance or capacitance. So you get parts of the sound of a lower wind but a lower wind would also lower resistance and capacitance, so what you get is something that you cannot get by fiddling with the winding.

Sound-wise, it makes the sound "sweeter", more rounded, gives it more "bell". That's what you get if you leave resistance and capacitance high but lower impedance.

The most famous user is Ritchie Blackmore, if you follow his 1975-1995 tone you'll hear what I mean.

The only commercially available products I am aware of are Bill Lawrence Q-Filter and Dawk's (Blackmore's ex-roadie) MTC. Since I considered offering such a solution commercially I have shied away from going anywhere inside 5 miles of Dawk's work since he has already indicated that he's upset about people copying his work and I don't need the trouble. If he invented something he needs to file for a patent or shut up, but obviously avoiding any exposure to his product is the smooth way to go here.

Bill Lawrence Q-Filter will give you a LCR network but it is very, very underengineed. What you buy there is just a coil in a plastic mount and then you can build your basic LCR network with one more resistor and one more capacitor. The values he gives as example don't work very well. You can clearly hear that messing with the Q-filter that way gets you the right thing, the right direction, but it's just lacking the right values. Also, a LCR network should probably not just have it's own pot, but you would integrate the guitar's volume control to automatically blend in (like a treble bleed mod) some of the LCR circuit to sweeten up the tone when the guitarist take back the volume pot (which is what happens in Blackmore's guitar).

I have since replaced the fixed resistor with a trimmer and I'm in progress of using a 12-way rotary dial with different capacitors to dial the sucker in. But commercializing this will require a little broader approach, namely I have no idea whether the coil shipped as the Q-filter is right in the first place and I haven't even started integrating the volume pot.

Anyway, the commercial prospect of this is difficult to evaluate. On one hand, being a passive circuit removes the biggest obstacle, which is active electronics and the need for battery or phantom power, next to the plain prejudice against active guitars. You have a famous guitarist as an example. But just one, that's not very impressive, why don't other famous players use it? Another problem is that you should probably de-activate your normal tone circuit (or replace it with a 1 Mohm pot). That would raise adaption problems. Technically the best way to go is to have a push-pull that is a tone pot down and a LCR network up, or two 1 Mohm pots but then it's not "throw in" anymore.

But most importantly, to my ears this is a usable, good way to dial in "your" sound that cannot be had any other way. Even with a 250 or 500 Kohm tone pot still active it does good things. I would expect if a critical mass of early adaptors would write about their true impressions you'd probably ended up with a market. The "no Hi-Fi sound in my guitar!" crowd doesn't come after you and fundamentally, this is plain good stuff.

I forgot about that- I'd love that Blackmore circuitry, or something similar

 

[Top Jimmy]

Re: New Products - Opinions Please / On-Board Circuits

Why is any of this better than having it on your pedal board?