No glow no go!? What say you?

[Osensei]

I recently had a discussion with a fellow customer at a guitar shop about the desirability of tube vs solid state. He insisted that the differences in tone was mainly a product of the consumers imagination. He seemed to think that current solid state tech was as good if not better than tube.

As a devout tubologist I'm inclined to disagree! Am I worshipping a false god here?

 

[YJM_Rocks]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tube is better, no question about it.

 

[some_dude]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tube amps generally weigh more, thus they have a heavier tone.

 

[Osensei]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tube amps generally weigh more, thus they have a heavier tone.

Hummm! That sounds logical! :chairfall

 

[larry_emder]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I think we as consumers are fed a lot of bullcrap about how tubes are 'better'. But it is purely subjective.

I dont mind a bit of either (got a podxt and a mesa, use them equally)

 

[Nite_Maresz_25]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tube amps generally weigh more, thus they have a heavier tone.

Best amp related GC answer to an amp question EVER!

 

[B Bent]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tubes rule all else drools!!! I am a self-proclaimed tube snob though. There are some decent sounding SS amps,but IMO they are far and few between!!

 

[aleclee]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I definitely have a thing for tubes but I'm also an advocate of listening with your ears, not your eyes. If it sounds good, I don't care if it has tubes, transistors, or flux capacitors.

For my recent film scoring project, I used my Variax through a Pod XT Live. They're only tools. As long as the job gets done, it doesn't really matter if you're using a phillips screwdriver or a socket wrench.

 

[some_dude]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I actually happen to like solid state cleans.....particularily when modulated.

Except for fuzz, I prefer tube dirt.

 

[Mincer]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

i dont care how something is made, if it sounds good, it sounds good. I have heard too many terrible tube and ss amps to think otherwise. i decide with my ears.

 

[spacecaptain21]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tubes rule all else drools!!! I am a self-proclaimed tube snob though. There are some decent sounding SS amps,but IMO they are far and few between!!

Pretty much what he said.

Tube will be better at least 95% of the time, IMO. I've played some good solid-state amps, but all of them were the same price as a good amp. The only solid-state I'd think about over tube would be a Roland JC. KILLER cleans,

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Chimps will say anything....

Where the rubber meets the road is your own ears.

With that said I own 4 tube amps....

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Obviously we know everyone has their own opinion about which is better. But the general consensus seems to be that tubes rule the distortion world, while the better of solid state and tube cleans isn't as clear overall. I agree with tube distortion being superior, btw.

 

[joelap]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I've got a Junior year design project coming up within the next two semesters, and I'm mulling over the idea of building two of the same amps: one using tubes, the other using JFETS/MOSFETS. I know some JFETs can emulate the sound of a 12AX7 very very convincingly, hence the fetzer valve and marsha valve on runoffgroove (I think thats the site? Maybe ErikH can chime in?). Anyways, I've been thinking about pitching that idea to my advisor, keeping as many other variables as constant between the two as possible, but building one amp with tubes, the other with JFETs/MOSFETs using both subjective and quantitative measurements. We're got audio engineering labs here, maybe they have meters that can measure the harmonics each amp is producing (tubes produce mostly even order pleasing to the ear harmonics, while ss is stigma'ed with odd order displeasing harmonics). It's an idea I'm really starting to want to do that project.

 

[aleclee]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I've got a Junior year design project coming up within the next two semesters, and I'm mulling over the idea of building two of the same amps: one using tubes, the other using JFETS/MOSFETS. I know some JFETs can emulate the sound of a 12AX7 very very convincingly, hence the fetzer valve and marsha valve on runoffgroove (I think thats the site? Maybe ErikH can chime in?). Anyways, I've been thinking about pitching that idea to my advisor, keeping as many other variables as constant between the two as possible, but building one amp with tubes, the other with JFETs/MOSFETs using both subjective and quantitative measurements. We're got audio engineering labs here, maybe they have meters that can measure the harmonics each amp is producing (tubes produce mostly even order pleasing to the ear harmonics, while ss is stigma'ed with odd order displeasing harmonics). It's an idea I'm really starting to want to do that project.

One thing to keep in mind is the effect of the output tranny. It's an important factor in tube amp tone that SS amps have to account for.

The other suggestion I'd make is to include transients in your test methodology. IME, that's where I notice the biggest difference between amp technologies. I suspect you'll find greater differences with transience than with steady state signals like simple sine waves.

If you do move forward with the project, I'm sure there'd be no shortage of interest among the members of this board.

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

I've got a Junior year design project coming up within the next two semesters, and I'm mulling over the idea of building two of the same amps: one using tubes, the other using JFETS/MOSFETS. I know some JFETs can emulate the sound of a 12AX7 very very convincingly, hence the fetzer valve and marsha valve on runoffgroove (I think thats the site? Maybe ErikH can chime in?). Anyways, I've been thinking about pitching that idea to my advisor, keeping as many other variables as constant between the two as possible, but building one amp with tubes, the other with JFETs/MOSFETs using both subjective and quantitative measurements. We're got audio engineering labs here, maybe they have meters that can measure the harmonics each amp is producing (tubes produce mostly even order pleasing to the ear harmonics, while ss is stigma'ed with odd order displeasing harmonics). It's an idea I'm really starting to want to do that project.

Joe,

Sounds like a cool project! Keep us informed with the progress if you choose to pursue this idea! What school are you attending anyway?

As far as tube emulation, I have to say there are some really convincing SS amps out there... besides, there is a factor most tend to ignore when dealing with rig setups - RECORDING/AMPLIFYING!!!

I have heard a precise tone here in my "studio" and manipulated mic placement to achieve that tone as best as possible with positive results... I have also used my Digitech floor processor to get some really convinving tones... once I played the tracks back, the difference was barely noticeable amongst the mix of the other tracks... Same thing on stage... I had a Duoverb that emulated several tube amps rather well... I played it onstage and actually had it in our mix via 2 seperate methods... The XLR outs went directly into the mixer, and I had a mic on the speakers... I always got compliments on my tone, but then again, I always arrived VERY early and played through a wireless transmitter as I walked through the venue to verify the tone I had onstage was what they'd hear in the back while shooting pool. I joined the tube snob club and sold my Duoverb for EXACTLY what I had into, less tax... Getting the tube tones dialed in right is more dificult than can be imagined and even I could hardly tell a difference between the amps.. I sold the Duoverb to our lead guitarist who was using it onstage while I was setting up my Hot Rod Deluxe... In the final mix, the Line6 sounded just as good as my HRDx... In fact, the XLRs allowed better transferrence of the stereo effects...

Tone is subjective, as others have already said... The next time I buy an amp, I am not gonna rule ANYTHING out until I play it....

 

[Mephis]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Go listen to a marshall 5210 if you think solid states are junk.

Problem with solid states are, they're made cheaply. I don't see many botique solid states out there. So you really can't compair them to something that costs 10x as much.


Tech 21 stuff is also fantastic. Probably some of the best solid state amps I've ever heard.

 

[JLagoon]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Well, if it sounds good, then it is good regardless whether it's a tube amp or a solidstate. I think that the analogy that would give a better understanding is the sound of direct recording and mic-ed recording. Even if you use the same setup, direct recording sounds different from mic-ed recording. The factor of air movement is the comparable factor of the "tube sound" in amps.

In general, solidstate amps sound drier than tube amps do. An all tube amp has this "spongy" like character in its sound that is very hard to duplicate in SS and digital amps. However, as technology progresses, who knows?

 

[Osensei]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Aren't tubes more likely to go down though! Best to have a backup SS to save your butt?

 

[B Bent]

Re: No glow no go!? What say you?

Tube amps in all of their quirkyness are still a joy! I bought my my Vibrolux at 2:30 in the afternoon and played a gig at 6. It is a 30 year old amp that had rat turds and roaches in it. (literally) I would be surprised if a SS amp in the same shape would turn on more less sound amazing!!!It was the best tone I have had in a long time. It really is all about personal preference. If you play a cheap SS Behringer 1x8 15 watt amp and love it that's your business and who am I to say anything. My experience has been that I can't find the tone I hear in my dreams from SS amps. Given that I own 4 very nice tube amps!!