No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
- Thread starter LtKojak
- Start date
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
So do I. A Boss Gt-10 and Boss Gt-Pro (which sounds better than the GT-10). I used to use the GT-10 as a foot controller for the Axe FX. Now with the Fractal controller its a backup (admittedly a poor one). But in four years neither the Ultra or Axe II has failed and I've drug it around quite a bit.
So do I. A Boss Gt-10 and Boss Gt-Pro (which sounds better than the GT-10). I used to use the GT-10 as a foot controller for the Axe FX. Now with the Fractal controller its a backup (admittedly a poor one). But in four years neither the Ultra or Axe II has failed and I've drug it around quite a bit.
mantis
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Modeling has it's place especially for a cover band. You can get many different tones out of them and get close to the original tone.
I prefer the sound of a real amp. I also prefer Tubes over solid state , thats just me. I don't think it's something anyone should get knocked for doing so.
Modeling has it's place especially for a cover band. You can get many different tones out of them and get close to the original tone.
I prefer the sound of a real amp. I also prefer Tubes over solid state , thats just me. I don't think it's something anyone should get knocked for doing so.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I don't think modeling people knock tubes as much as tube people knock modeling.
The tones I use end up being a blend of modeling and solid state.
I don't think modeling people knock tubes as much as tube people knock modeling.
The tones I use end up being a blend of modeling and solid state.
everdrone
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I dont see how dudes using digital delays and digital pedals with their analog pedals can knock multifx
those boss ones seem kinda cool, you can plug in a loop of analog pedals right? and they save your various presets all integrated with your analog :headbang:
I dont see how dudes using digital delays and digital pedals with their analog pedals can knock multifx
those boss ones seem kinda cool, you can plug in a loop of analog pedals right? and they save your various presets all integrated with your analog :headbang:
zenmindbeginner
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I'm playing my modeler less and less now that I built another rig based around one of my beloved Fenders.
In fact, I just don't practice with it anymore at all and only use it to record... and then when I do record, I blend both digital and analog rigs.
I LOVE my Line 6 stuff but it needs better speaker emulation... that would cut out the "fizz" and give the signal some of that cabinet thump and thwack that it sorely lacks.
I'm playing my modeler less and less now that I built another rig based around one of my beloved Fenders.
In fact, I just don't practice with it anymore at all and only use it to record... and then when I do record, I blend both digital and analog rigs.
I LOVE my Line 6 stuff but it needs better speaker emulation... that would cut out the "fizz" and give the signal some of that cabinet thump and thwack that it sorely lacks.
James Rock
Active member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I think modelling is great for recording especially effects. On mixes I like to use delays and reverbs from Guitar Rig to get a certain sound (stereo EHX Memory Man Dlxs) that I don't have the analog equivalent. Also use it alot for extra tracks, that said there is something about the sound that is flat by itself its useable but compared to miking an amp (even just with a couple of 57s or 58s) it sounds a bit flat. I would love an AXE-FX for effects and from demos it is one of the only modellers that sounds like it has a decent AC30 sound. If I played metal (super high gain) or needed super effected cleans (I am heavy with FX anyway) I think modelling works I just still haven't heard it sound as lively in that mild breakup category plus it doesn't respond the same so my playing isn't as dynamic. One thing I haven't heard modelled well is Fuzz pedals. I think a Hybrid setup of miked tube amps and modelling would open up heaps of possibilities. When it comes to the budget stuff (cheap modelling amps) I prefer transistor amps due to a feel thing (recording though amp sims over cheap transistor).
I think modelling is great for recording especially effects. On mixes I like to use delays and reverbs from Guitar Rig to get a certain sound (stereo EHX Memory Man Dlxs) that I don't have the analog equivalent. Also use it alot for extra tracks, that said there is something about the sound that is flat by itself its useable but compared to miking an amp (even just with a couple of 57s or 58s) it sounds a bit flat. I would love an AXE-FX for effects and from demos it is one of the only modellers that sounds like it has a decent AC30 sound. If I played metal (super high gain) or needed super effected cleans (I am heavy with FX anyway) I think modelling works I just still haven't heard it sound as lively in that mild breakup category plus it doesn't respond the same so my playing isn't as dynamic. One thing I haven't heard modelled well is Fuzz pedals. I think a Hybrid setup of miked tube amps and modelling would open up heaps of possibilities. When it comes to the budget stuff (cheap modelling amps) I prefer transistor amps due to a feel thing (recording though amp sims over cheap transistor).
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I hate every modelling amp that I have played...Vox, Peavy, Marshall, Line 6 (spiders), etc. They sound like total crap with no resemblance at all to a real amp...
EXCEPT...My Line 6 Flextone III. It's been an amazing amp for the 7 or 8 years that I've owned it. Weird that this thing can sound so good and every other modelling amp (including Line 6) can sound so bad. Go figure.
I hate every modelling amp that I have played...Vox, Peavy, Marshall, Line 6 (spiders), etc. They sound like total crap with no resemblance at all to a real amp...
EXCEPT...My Line 6 Flextone III. It's been an amazing amp for the 7 or 8 years that I've owned it. Weird that this thing can sound so good and every other modelling amp (including Line 6) can sound so bad. Go figure.
mantis
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
True. Nothing wrong with Modeling IF you like the tone you get. But if you actually played the modeled amp , you will notice huge differences. Not many can afford to own 20 different heads and matching cabinets to get all the different tones one may want or need hence cover bands , so this is where modeling is huge IMO. For writing your own stuff , not so much.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Revalver's 6505 sounds VERY similar to the 5150 I had. Then I can go in and tweak it to make it sound better:
Revalver's 6505 sounds VERY similar to the 5150 I had. Then I can go in and tweak it to make it sound better:
Reload in 5
Just Ultimate Slacker
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Honestly I have a tube amp with pedals and a Line 6 HD500. Have played many different tube amps, and in the end if I pay more attention to the music and interacting with the rest of the band I dont hear any difference. The audience also cant tell. A lot of the newer stuff I can tell a difference when compared side by side but taken an hour so apart the differences again fall away. Thats just me though. To me the music is more important than obsessing over the small difference.
Honestly I have a tube amp with pedals and a Line 6 HD500. Have played many different tube amps, and in the end if I pay more attention to the music and interacting with the rest of the band I dont hear any difference. The audience also cant tell. A lot of the newer stuff I can tell a difference when compared side by side but taken an hour so apart the differences again fall away. Thats just me though. To me the music is more important than obsessing over the small difference.
eschoendorff
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Well said. I am pretty sold on the JCM 900 sound on my RP1000. That straight to the PA works for me!
Well said. I am pretty sold on the JCM 900 sound on my RP1000. That straight to the PA works for me!
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
I love my Pod HD500. It's a great piece of gear to use.
I love my Pod HD500. It's a great piece of gear to use.
everdrone
New member
Johnny the Kid
Shaunofthedeadologist
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
This is my long winded explanation in defense of modeling
Today, most bands who tour aren't afforded the same luxury as more established bands (Ex: Iron Maiden who has a private plane). Some can go on tour with one or two pedals, a Vox AC30, and 2 guitars and be fine for a tour, but others, particularly metal bands, need more power. With alternate tunings, some bands could have four or five different guitars that are needed for a concert. Trivium is a good example. They use 4 or 5 different tunings, so they have to have a guitar for each tuning, as well as a back up. Now you can use the same backup for standard that you do you drop D, but they use seven strings as well, so between Standard, Drop D, Eb Standard, and Drop Db, as well as a 7 string, that's eight different guitars for a tour. For three players (two guitarists and a bassist) to take eight guitars each on an international tour, that's a lot of dough right there. Then to try and get amps in on top of that? It's a lot of money.
And while some bands rent gear because it's cheaper, it's also inconsistent. You've bought the gear that you've bought because of some inherit tonal mutation. You didn't just walk into the store and decide to buy the guitar you bought. You tried each one out, see which suited your needs. Does every 2013 Les Paul Standard sound the same? No. Does ANY 2013 Les Paul Standard sound the same? No. So to go and just rent an amp, it's not going to sound the same as any other amp with that same name on the front, between wood in the speaker cabs, to differences in length of wires inside the amp.
Furthermore, there are bands that use a **** tone of effects in the studio and don't want to take 30 or 40 pedals out on tour. Coheed and Cambria are known for having several different styles, from prog metal to post hardcore. Hell these last two albums, one song sounded like The Police while another was straight up funk. So, why not get an AxeFX, dial up the sound you need and go from there. The AxeFX are great in that they have something like 120 different banks of 16 patches each to setup. If you can't dial up a tone for every different sound that you use, then you need to look at how many pedals you are actually using.
Finally, there's also the convenience factor. I know you can't get every pedal ever made put into a modeler, but the ones you can get are pretty popular ones, and if you are using the AxeFX (once again), I've heard that the guys over at Fractal are willing to dial up any and every sound that you could ever want. Amps, too. My dream rig has always been a combination of three amps; a Mesa Dual or Triple Rectifier on my distorted tones, and a Vox AC30 mixed with a Deluxe Reverb on my clean tones. Now that I have my POD, I can set up something that would have otherwise cost me somewhere around 4-5 thousand dollars.
There you go. Agree or disagree, I don't care. Most of those examples and the supporting arguments are directly from the artists' mouths (I watch a lot of Rig Rundowns on Youtube). I like both. I get really mad at tube purists who say that modelers don't sound anywhere close to tube. I think that tubists don't like the idea that I, a kid who spent $500 on a POD HD500, can get a similar tone as the one they spent a ton of money on.
This is my long winded explanation in defense of modeling
Today, most bands who tour aren't afforded the same luxury as more established bands (Ex: Iron Maiden who has a private plane). Some can go on tour with one or two pedals, a Vox AC30, and 2 guitars and be fine for a tour, but others, particularly metal bands, need more power. With alternate tunings, some bands could have four or five different guitars that are needed for a concert. Trivium is a good example. They use 4 or 5 different tunings, so they have to have a guitar for each tuning, as well as a back up. Now you can use the same backup for standard that you do you drop D, but they use seven strings as well, so between Standard, Drop D, Eb Standard, and Drop Db, as well as a 7 string, that's eight different guitars for a tour. For three players (two guitarists and a bassist) to take eight guitars each on an international tour, that's a lot of dough right there. Then to try and get amps in on top of that? It's a lot of money.
And while some bands rent gear because it's cheaper, it's also inconsistent. You've bought the gear that you've bought because of some inherit tonal mutation. You didn't just walk into the store and decide to buy the guitar you bought. You tried each one out, see which suited your needs. Does every 2013 Les Paul Standard sound the same? No. Does ANY 2013 Les Paul Standard sound the same? No. So to go and just rent an amp, it's not going to sound the same as any other amp with that same name on the front, between wood in the speaker cabs, to differences in length of wires inside the amp.
Furthermore, there are bands that use a **** tone of effects in the studio and don't want to take 30 or 40 pedals out on tour. Coheed and Cambria are known for having several different styles, from prog metal to post hardcore. Hell these last two albums, one song sounded like The Police while another was straight up funk. So, why not get an AxeFX, dial up the sound you need and go from there. The AxeFX are great in that they have something like 120 different banks of 16 patches each to setup. If you can't dial up a tone for every different sound that you use, then you need to look at how many pedals you are actually using.
Finally, there's also the convenience factor. I know you can't get every pedal ever made put into a modeler, but the ones you can get are pretty popular ones, and if you are using the AxeFX (once again), I've heard that the guys over at Fractal are willing to dial up any and every sound that you could ever want. Amps, too. My dream rig has always been a combination of three amps; a Mesa Dual or Triple Rectifier on my distorted tones, and a Vox AC30 mixed with a Deluxe Reverb on my clean tones. Now that I have my POD, I can set up something that would have otherwise cost me somewhere around 4-5 thousand dollars.
There you go. Agree or disagree, I don't care. Most of those examples and the supporting arguments are directly from the artists' mouths (I watch a lot of Rig Rundowns on Youtube). I like both. I get really mad at tube purists who say that modelers don't sound anywhere close to tube. I think that tubists don't like the idea that I, a kid who spent $500 on a POD HD500, can get a similar tone as the one they spent a ton of money on.
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everdrone
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
mythbuster: is a $200 Fender pro Junior combo and a fuzz pedal gonna sound awesome recorded, live, and loud enough for drums??? YES, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN AWESOME PA SYSTEM TO BE HEARD IN A SMALL CLUB
mythbuster: do people need expensive fancy modelers or guitar amps just to practice? NO. for recording??? NO, lots of modeler software is free, and the ability to mix is crucial to a good recorded sound.
:banana:
after I have made hundreds of recordings with analog modelers, digital modelers, a line 6 toneport, and a small tube amp, I conclude saying the tube amp sounded best
mythbuster: is a $200 Fender pro Junior combo and a fuzz pedal gonna sound awesome recorded, live, and loud enough for drums??? YES, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN AWESOME PA SYSTEM TO BE HEARD IN A SMALL CLUB
mythbuster: do people need expensive fancy modelers or guitar amps just to practice? NO. for recording??? NO, lots of modeler software is free, and the ability to mix is crucial to a good recorded sound.
:banana:
after I have made hundreds of recordings with analog modelers, digital modelers, a line 6 toneport, and a small tube amp, I conclude saying the tube amp sounded best
mantis
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Tell me more please.
What is this? I never heard of it. Better is strong statement. If someone can Model a amp and make it sound even better then the original then why would anyone ever spend any money on the real thing? I wouldn't , I'm a tone chaser , not a pride of ownership. I'm never married to the name on the front of the amp , guitar or Effects for that matter , it's all about the end product.Revalver's 6505 sounds VERY similar to the 5150 I had. Then I can go in and tweak it to make it sound better:
Tell me more please.
mantis
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Thats just me , Since I was 9 years old , tone became a huge part of my life. I have a very good ear for it. I grew up on tube amps and the warmth and feeling out of them I haven't found the ability out of a solid state or a modeling rig.
I have had the Vox ValveTronix amps as when I played one in the store , I felt it would be a wonderful way to explore modeling. I tried the Line 6 amps and didn't care for all the digital fuzzy sounds I got. Currently I have a Boss GT10 and find many of the amp modelers are horrible sounding. I have played most of the amps they are modeling and they don't sound like that. The 5150 and Soldano are prime examples of 2 very good sounding drive channel amps that don't sound like the modeler. I can't get that mid range crunch out of it or depth.
Thats a good attitude to have and you can experience more gear then I can as I get annoyed when the little things are not right. To me Tone is a huge part of the expression , when it's wrong , the connection and message are lost.
Thats just me , Since I was 9 years old , tone became a huge part of my life. I have a very good ear for it. I grew up on tube amps and the warmth and feeling out of them I haven't found the ability out of a solid state or a modeling rig.
I have had the Vox ValveTronix amps as when I played one in the store , I felt it would be a wonderful way to explore modeling. I tried the Line 6 amps and didn't care for all the digital fuzzy sounds I got. Currently I have a Boss GT10 and find many of the amp modelers are horrible sounding. I have played most of the amps they are modeling and they don't sound like that. The 5150 and Soldano are prime examples of 2 very good sounding drive channel amps that don't sound like the modeler. I can't get that mid range crunch out of it or depth.
mantis
New member
Re: No love for modeling 'round here, uh?
Excellent reply , thank you for that.
It's where I find Modeling useful especially for cover bands. You can get mad a tube purist feeling the way that they do but I have to agree with them as I have tried modeling many times and have not found one that sounds as good as the real thing. If you never played a true tube amp , you should. It's a sound like no other. Solid state amps don't sound like a tube amp. They don't have the saturation , the style of punch and tube break up. They don't have that creamy clear clean like a real Fender Twin Reverb. Honestly I never heard a better sounding clean amp then a Fender Twin Reverb.
I will say this about modeling , I have a blast when I'm playing around in my basement trying out all the different tones I can get out of all those different modeled amps. But at the end of the day it's not a tone I would write with. I always find a fuzz or digital fake sound I don't care for. I find this is a lot of stand alone pedals as well. I tried out the line 6 models and went back to Boss and MXR as I find them to sound more REAL for a lack of a better word.
But the beauty of this is that no one can tell anyone how to sound. This is a personal journey. if money is holding you back , save for what you want. In the end owning what sounds best to you instead of settling on what you can afford right now will pay off. Yeah take the journey , buy what you can afford and get playing but just get the penny jar going and one day experience the tone you've had in your head. It opens up your creative side as it's not held back by except able tone.
Excellent reply , thank you for that.
It's where I find Modeling useful especially for cover bands. You can get mad a tube purist feeling the way that they do but I have to agree with them as I have tried modeling many times and have not found one that sounds as good as the real thing. If you never played a true tube amp , you should. It's a sound like no other. Solid state amps don't sound like a tube amp. They don't have the saturation , the style of punch and tube break up. They don't have that creamy clear clean like a real Fender Twin Reverb. Honestly I never heard a better sounding clean amp then a Fender Twin Reverb.
I will say this about modeling , I have a blast when I'm playing around in my basement trying out all the different tones I can get out of all those different modeled amps. But at the end of the day it's not a tone I would write with. I always find a fuzz or digital fake sound I don't care for. I find this is a lot of stand alone pedals as well. I tried out the line 6 models and went back to Boss and MXR as I find them to sound more REAL for a lack of a better word.
But the beauty of this is that no one can tell anyone how to sound. This is a personal journey. if money is holding you back , save for what you want. In the end owning what sounds best to you instead of settling on what you can afford right now will pay off. Yeah take the journey , buy what you can afford and get playing but just get the penny jar going and one day experience the tone you've had in your head. It opens up your creative side as it's not held back by except able tone.
