ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

[shreder75]

ok..there's a rectifier...and power tubes..and preamp tubes...

my amp has Class A, Class AB1 (I think there's a one in there) and solid state rectifier modes....

what exactly does the rectifier do? I'm assuming it's got nothing to do with the power tubes, right? in other words, if I switch it to solid state rectifier, the power tubes are still involved in the tone as much as they ever were, no?

you'd think after all the tube gear I've had over the years I'd know this **** by now =)

 

[tone4days]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

i think that the rectifier's job is to translate AC from the source to DC for use in powering the tubes ... a solid state rectifier will be 'tight' and 'crisp' providing nearly instantaneous power on demand ... the tube rectifiers have a bit of a delay as they ramp up .. this is the much sought after 'sag' that folks refer to

i hope that others with first hand experience chime in here to correct or extend these ideas

cheers
t4d

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

your explanation of the tube vs. solid state reaction for the rectifiers holds with what the manuals and info on the net I've read say...about being tight and whatnot...

I was always a little weary about using the solid state rectifier on a tube amp (when I had the option...I used to have a triple recto)..I was like 'well, I bought a tube amp, so I wanna use tubes!'..cause I thought that for whatever reason, it was in the power section that the rectifier sat/worked...and I thought (and I think this is incorrect the more I look into it) that using the solid state recto would bypass the power tubes in the power section..giving me a 'fake' sound or an overly solid state one..and I think that's incorrect...some sites say that alotta tube amps use solid state rectifiers these days...

as an aside, my B-52 rips the anus outta that triple recto I had..lol

 

[FretFire]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

The rectifier and power tubes are seperate entities, as in using a SS rectifier will not "bypass" your power tubes, it's simply using a different type of rectifier. My Rectoverb uses five 12AX7s in the preamp, two 6L6s in the power section, and a solid state rectifier. I seem to prefer an SS one to a tube, as it's a bit tighter overall.

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

I'm agreeing with you on the tightness of the SS rectifier compared to the tube on, FRETFIRE..not that the tube one sounds bad, but the solid state one does sound tighter without changing the overal tonality of the amp....which to me, couldn't be better =0) all depends on what kinda sound you're going for I suppose, but for me...tight and articulate is where it's at...

 

[tone4days]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

... rips the anus outta ...

ah, i see you've consulted the electrical engineering texts to find the technical terms for these matters :laugh2:

i think this stuff all boils down to taste and temperament ... we've all heard guys get great tone out of "all tube" gear ... "part tube / part" SS gear .. and "all SS" gear ....

i wish i had the time, cash, and ears to A/B/C test a bunch of different rigs ... i guess i need more friends with more different types of gear .... i honestly dont know if i could hear the difference in a blind test ... maybe i could if i was playing the 3 amps of different type with my back turned

i know i cant tell what kind of amp is used on a CD of any given artist ... there's good tone, and less than good tone

my fav example of this is our own marinblues ... he has shared clips of absolutely smokin chops and killer tone - some recorded with a digital modeller, and others with a sweet tube amp ... i cant tell em apart .. can you guys?

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

I'm a little late on this, but yes, I have studied rectifiers and tone4days nailed it; it's all about converting AC power into DC power for applications. Even the different descriptions between tube and solid state were dead on. Props to tone4days! :fing2:

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

hehe..yeah, that's a little known techie term....lmao...

you're totally right about tone..it's always subjective...I've showed people recorded clips of my vetta 2 and some have loved them and some have said 'nice tone..but I can tell it's not tubes' and the like...

some people swear by mesa, and after owning and playing through many, I've determined that they're overpriced crap..at least for MY uses...i'm sure someone can find a use for them...

I saw evergray and children of bodom recently (along with the very boring Iced Earth..I love Tim Owens, but their music is sooooo lackluster to me..just my opinion) and they were playing through randal amps..and they all sounded KILLER..solid state? yes...good sound? hell yeah!

I'm sure we all could play through a bunch of different rigs and be happy with them, know what I mean? but like you said, 'if I had the cash'...lol

as far as being able to tell what type of amp being used simply by hearing it...no way...sometimes I can tell if it's a modeling amp, but I can't tell what kinda amp it is (usually..unless it's a fender small amp or something) tubewise just by hearing it

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

ok, maybe you guys would know the answer to this then....I was considering getting a different brand of powertubes for my amp..but since rebiasing is involved, no matter what type of tube or brand i'd like to put in there, I'd rather hold off until they start to wear out...

I was on the jj tube site looking at their pre amp tubes as well..and they have a 12ax7 with a 'high gain' option...

I'm wondering (and this is for pre amp tubes in general) if maybe switching those out could possibly make it even more crunchy as well? I'm unsure as to the pre amp tubes dictate tone as compared to poweramp tubes....also, no rebiasing involved with pre amp tubes, right? there's six in all...only 4 of which are preamp..the other one is for reverb and the other is for the fx loop...for tone purposes, I should only have to swap out the four actual preamp tubes, no?

sorry, I'm a tube idiot and an inceasant tweaker..lol

 

[tone4days]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

sorry, bro ... all my tube knowledge is academic ... i've never owned one

plenty of other guys know this stuff ... they'll be along shortly

cheers
t4d

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

I'm wondering (and this is for pre amp tubes in general) if maybe switching those out could possibly make it even more crunchy as well? I'm unsure as to the pre amp tubes dictate tone as compared to poweramp tubes....also, no rebiasing involved with pre amp tubes, right? there's six in all...only 4 of which are preamp..the other one is for reverb and the other is for the fx loop...for tone purposes, I should only have to swap out the four actual preamp tubes, no?

sorry, I'm a tube idiot and an inceasant tweaker..lol

Here's the rundown for ya! The tone you hear at low volumes is more preamp oriented. That is why it may sound more raw, thinner, weaker etc. The power amp (powered by power tubes) is what you hear more on higher volumes. What I always dug about the tones of a cranked amp is that I love the push that it gives and the tone is much more smoothe and full to my ears.

Biasing is for power amp tubes, not preamp tubes. The preamp tubes can tweak your distortion dramatically. I used to have a Hughes & Kettner Triamp that I replaced the chinese tubes with JJs. The JJs smoothed it out and lowered the gain so much that the amp had no balls. I had to put in a GT 12AX7M (Mullard RI) in the V1 slot in order to get the gain and aggressiveness back. If you want something more crunchy, I HIGHLY recommend them. They aren't cheap, but one in the V1 position is really all you need and JJ's I've found are better in spots like the phase inverter spot where their balanced tone will benefit an amp. The phase inverter spot is the one closest to the power tubes.

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

wow, I'm learning all kinds of interesting things here =) I was on the eurotubes site (jj tubes) earlier today...

so I would only have to buy one 12ax7 type tube to slap in there? what would happen if I replaced them all?? just curious...

when you say GT you're not talking about groove tubes brand, are you? just making sure that we're talkin' apples with apples here...

just to clarify...that 12ax7M...that's a groove tube or a JJ? and I would put it in the slot right next to the power tubes?

 

[FretFire]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

wow, I'm learning all kinds of interesting things here =) I was on the eurotubes site (jj tubes) earlier today...

so I would only have to buy one 12ax7 type tube to slap in there? what would happen if I replaced them all?? just curious...

when you say GT you're not talking about groove tubes brand, are you? just making sure that we're talkin' apples with apples here...

just to clarify...that 12ax7M...that's a groove tube or a JJ? and I would put it in the slot right next to the power tubes?

GT = Groove Tubes, and he said to put it in V1. The phase inverter spot is nearest the power tubes (in my amp it's V5), he was talking about something different there.

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

ohhh...I think I got a little confused..I think he was sayin' that the JJ's are good in the phase inverter spot...and the GT should be in the V1 slot..

these slots usually labeled inside the amp or would I need a schematic?

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

ohhh...I think I got a little confused..I think he was sayin' that the JJ's are good in the phase inverter spot...and the GT should be in the V1 slot..

these slots usually labeled inside the amp or would I need a schematic?

Yep, you got it. Sorry for the confusion :smack:

GT 12ax7m would do wonders in that V1 and JJ's are great in the phase inverter spot IMHO (the JJ's I used were the ECC83S).

If you look inside your amp, very often there is one preamp tube sitting right next to the power tubes alone, that is the phase inverter spot. There is usually a line of preamp tubes and the one closest is the v1, then goes v2 and so on. The best way to make sure you have the right spot is to either look inside the amp for a diagram (Fenders were good about this), look for a manual for your model amp or play the guessing game and keep it wherever it sounds the best.

Hope that helps

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

cool..very useful info...and I like the idea of only replacing one tube..heheh..

now, I wonder what would happen if I replaced all four pre amp tubes with that GT?

 

[shreder75]

Re: ok, I should know this by now..Rectifier question

I ordered my GT 12ax7m for the v1 slot...can't wait to see how it affects the tone..who knows, if I like it, I may just have to get three more and replace all the pre amp tubes =D