Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

[OlinMusic]

I have been using my Shiva Open Back 2x12 combo to record - I find I am getting a much larger sound and a damn god bass response. I am preferring the midrange too.

Am I doing somethign wrong? I have been experimenting with an SM57 somewhat off Axis, and a Condenser a few feet back to get some room sound. I will go to the MD421 next.

I generally use a Mesa 2x12 closed back Recto which has a very bassy sound. I feel I am getting not only better bass PLUS attack, the highs and high mids are coming thru. The Recto is giving me more of a scooped sound.

I am trying to describe this the best I can.

Any thoughts and theories on open vs Closed back?

Could I maximize my sound with a mix of V30s and a Lead 80? I have tried the C90 and V30, but find it needs a lot of volume to really get the tone.

I could also go Open back 2x12 with 4x12 G12H30.

I am hoping for a speaker, cab, and tone discussion here.

 

[casblah]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

In my experience, open-backed cabs let the speaker use it's full range-of-motion. Closed-back cabs tend to let the speaker move in one direction more prominently, than the other. Both have their good points; ultimately, I think a pairing of both types of cabs would be optimal.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

In my experience, open-backed cabs let the speaker use it's full range-of-motion. Closed-back cabs tend to let the speaker move in one direction more prominently, than the other. Both have their good points; ultimately, I think a pairing of both types of cabs would be optimal.

+1.

I'll also add that I've found closed back cabs to generally sound punchier with a better (some might call it "more defined" ) lowend, but the down side is that it's a more focused sound (open back just has a better spread like mentioned from cashblah)

I can't really help you with micing with the Shiva because I don't have much experience with that end of the spectrum and whenever I record (with a Shure SM-57 slightly off axis like you) I can't really get the right blend of frequencies (it always ends up too bassy and that beautiful midrange and topend complexity seems to get lost).

I would definitely recommend mixing a Vintage 30 with a Classic Lead 80 for speakers for the Shiva (if you intend on keeping it). The Vintage 30 sounds phenomenal for the clean tones (it gives it that smooth, highmid chime), but the Classic Lead 80 takes care of the low mid territory and balances nicely (it adds some great characteristics to the overdrive channel and I love the way it crunches and breaks up at higher volumes). I feel that the high mids from the Vintage 30s can get to you after a while so it's nice to mix it up. I used to have a bit of trouble with the lowend staying together with my Shiva 2x12'' I used to own, so a higher efficiency speaker like the Classic Lead 80 definitely held it together for me.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

BUMP

I am shocked no one has opinions on this? C'mon now. from cabs to Mic types?

 

[casblah]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

BUMP

I am shocked no one has opinions on this? C'mon now. from cabs to Mic types?

I'm not. It always seems that when you have a legitimate question(s) that needs answered, you'll get a handfull of replies. I guess everyone is more concerned with the "Texas is Better Than Your State" thread. Real Important stuff in that one...:smack:

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

Well a lot of it depends on the room. Not only the size of the room ,but also how high or low the ceiling is, and how absorbing or how reflective the surrounding structures are. Rooms have a tone. Closed back 4x12's like high ceilings. Sometimes in a tight room you may want an open back for a bigger, more of a surround sound effect. Obviously there may be aspects of the room sound you want to get in the mix. This usually requires a second (or more) ambiant mic feed, but getting it right can be difficult. I usually like a more distant mic on a 4x12 too, just to get some of the resonance sound. Just sticking a mic on the center of one speaker doesn't capture the resonance of the cab that you hear as a player. Jimmy Page has talked alot in print about the importance of experimenting with ambiant mic'ing.

I generally like a slightly off axis sound and hate putting the close up mic right on the center of the cone. It works better toward the outer part of the cone IMO. If the cab is directly on a hardwood floor so much the better. You can point the mic slightly toward the floor, so it gets some reverb off the floor, and it gets the sound from the speaker slightly more oblique. I no longer hold to the old "just stick a 57, or some cheap mic with poor top end pickup, on the cone" approach. Iv'e heard too many recordings or live mixes were the nuances of the tone, I could hear from the cab and the room, were being lost. This may call for more up scale mics such as a Nueman (can't recall the model #) that Page likes, or a ribbon mic or a something else, rather than just a plain old 57.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

I just bought the MD421 tonite, any tips?

I think my state really is better than TX btw

hehehehe jk

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

G12H30's in a good heavy open back 2x12 are nice. Clear with a round low end when running clean and punchy/ballsy when cranked. Great low end and good distortion. Definitely the most flexible speaker on the market and a great value for the money (if you buy the Mojo versions).

 

[philthis]

Re: Open Back Cabs - Speaker types etc etc

if you play mostly heavy chuga-chuga drop d stuff I would say stay smaller close backed cuz thats what they do best. If you like those crunchy power chords with alittle reverb and ambiance go bigger closed back or open back. I like bigger closed back speaker cabs cuz I have found it tends to do both well. open cabs tend to highlight mids and highs but closed back tend to highlight lows and low mids, large closed back cabs still get chuga-chuga and ambiance just not as extreme untill they are pushed alittle more. If you have plenty of power from your amp this should be no problem with a large closed back speaker cab. some companies do half closed cabs for this reason. I dont think there is alot of differance between half closed back and large closed back cabs. If you are a tone purist as say Eric Johnson is you will differ but I have heard both and I still dont think there is a very big differance. best of both worlds go larger closed back cabs. I even went to 2 large closed back 2/12 cabs to get that little extra ambiance without so much reverb in the mix. both my cabs also have a vintage and modern switch so I can get that low volumn vintage clip on vintage setting or switch to modern and crank it for bigger high gain sound. your cabs can give you tone options you cant dial in from an amp setting or pickup setting. to prove my point check out Fender bassman amp. the cab is made from pine?-and with four speakers it adds this very cool ambiance you cant get from other cabs. that cab is 50 percent of that amps tone-if that makes any sense. I did alot of reserch on this about 5 years ago playing all kinds of cabs with the same speakers. its weird but it can make a huge differance. your on the right track.
:beerchug: