P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

[Adam SE]

Hey, I've been doing some research on how to wire two P-Rails in my guitar, but it seems my ideal layout may be impossible. The layout is this: 2 mini toggles, 1 three way, 1 volume, 1 tone - 1 mini toggle to switch p-90/both/rail and 1 mini toggle to switch series/parallel.

Essentially I want this diagram, but with an added mini toggle to switch between series and parallel humbucking. However, I found this diagram which has added some confusion. It shows an on/on/on to switch from p-90/both/rail and an on/off to switch series and parallel. This looks to only control one pickup, meaning I would need to duplicate this for my second pickup making it so that I have a total of four mini toggles when I only want two.

Is what I'm asking possible? Is there a way to use the diagram in the second link but have it control both pickups simultaneously? I'm looking to have this specific layout and not use triple shots or any other types of switches.

Thanks for the help.

 

[dystrust]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

No, it isn't impossible. My brother used to own a guitar with dual P-Rails that was wired exactly how you describe. It was a bit beyond my ability, so I had a local wiring guru figure out the switching. Sorry that I can't help direct, but I can assure that what you're after can be done.

 

[J E C]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

You can use the Triple Shot mounting rings to do it also.

 

[Artie]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

The easiest way to do this is with one 4-way rotary switch for each pup. No toggles required. I'll post more info and a diagram when I get home from work tonight.

 

[orpheo]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

The easiest way to do this is with one 4-way rotary switch for each pup. No toggles required. I'll post more info and a diagram when I get home from work tonight.

I'd love to have a 4way rotary with enough wavers to switch both pickups at the same time. that would be swell...

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

You can use the Triple Shot mounting rings to do it also.

It's nice that you read the original post. But you missed this part..." I'm looking to have this specific layout and not use triple shots or any other types of switches."

 

[Artie]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

I'd love to have a 4way rotary with enough wavers to switch both pickups at the same time. that would be swell...

No prob. I'll draw it both ways so you can see the basic concept.

If Doc doesn't beat me to it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Components_and_Parts/Switches/Rotary_Switches.html

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...nd_Wiring/Wiring_Kit_for_Paul_Reed_Smith.html

This shows one switch for two pups, but you could easily use 2 switches (one for each pup).

 

[J E C]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Yes in deed, yes in deed. Ya got me there Doc! Oops

 

[Adam SE]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Thanks for all the replies! For various reasons, I want to have the diagram exactly the way I described, without any rotary switches or triple shots - but the comments are definitely appreciated.

No, it isn't impossible. My brother used to own a guitar with dual P-Rails that was wired exactly how you describe. It was a bit beyond my ability, so I had a local wiring guru figure out the switching. Sorry that I can't help direct, but I can assure that what you're after can be done.

I'm glad to know it is possible, it's definitely also beyond my abilities but hopefully someone can chime in.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Yes in deed, yes in deed. Ya got me there Doc! Oops

Don't get me wrong...I really love and am an advocate for Triple Shots. They are indeed a very simple way to add a lot of variety to the tones available from any given pup, and without having to drill a bunch of holes in your guitar or having a confusing array of additional toggles. But the OP isn't interested in TS rings for some reason. We need to respect that.

 

[Adam SE]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Just to clarify, I don't want to use Triple Shots or any other types of switches because I've already custom laser cut the pickup rings and electronics plate for my build, and already have purchased the hardware. Also Triple Shots don't come in white to match my pickups, and aesthetics are important!

The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking that my ideal configuration is impossible.

The switching method here is exactly as needed, however this requires two mini toggles per pickup, whereas I want two mini toggles to control both pickups. The wiring uses both sides of the DPDT switches which leads me to believe there isn't a way to get the switches to control both pickups simultaneously. But maybe I'm wrong, hopefully? This level of electronics is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

Cheers.

 

[Artie]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

BTW, I haven't abandoned you yet. (Or you, Kramersteen.) :guilty:

They just started up our 60-hour weeks again. My "doodle" time is once again limited.

 

[Liko]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Hey, I've been doing some research on how to wire two P-Rails in my guitar, but it seems my ideal layout may be impossible. The layout is this: 2 mini toggles, 1 three way, 1 volume, 1 tone - 1 mini toggle to switch p-90/both/rail and 1 mini toggle to switch series/parallel.

Essentially I want this diagram, but with an added mini toggle to switch between series and parallel humbucking. However, I found this diagram which has added some confusion. It shows an on/on/on to switch from p-90/both/rail and an on/off to switch series and parallel. This looks to only control one pickup, meaning I would need to duplicate this for my second pickup making it so that I have a total of four mini toggles when I only want two.

Is what I'm asking possible? Is there a way to use the diagram in the second link but have it control both pickups simultaneously? I'm looking to have this specific layout and not use triple shots or any other types of switches.

Thanks for the help.

If you want one three-position and one two-position switch with exactly this switching setup, but controlling both pickups with one pair of switches, the only way you'll get it is with 4-pole switches:

As you can see, these aren't small; fitting two of these into most guitar control cavities without sacrificing any existing controls is going to be tricky. But, if you can manage it, these will do the job; you just wire each half of each switch as if it were a DPDT from the wiring diagram you linked to. 4PDTs come in various sizes (you usually want the "mini-toggle") and in 2-pos and 3-pos variants, both on-off-on and on-on-on, so shop around and be careful not to end up with a momentary switch or an on-off-on as these won't work with the switching setup.

One thing to consider; you can compromise and use one 4PDT as the coil selector, with independent series-parallel switching on push-pull pots. Then you only have to fit one of these monsters in your control cavity, and you get the option of having one pickup in parallel and the other in series (a parallel neck and series bridge, for instance, would get you a "hot-rodded"-style combination of a hot overwound bridge tone with a PAF-y neck).

If you must control two P-rails with one pair of DPDTs, the only scheme I know of is basically ganged Triple-Shot wiring:

This isn't as intuitive, requiring you to memorize what the switch position combinations do, but you don't even need any new holes in your guitar; just two DPDT pots (I'd use Warmoth's push-push pots).

 

[Adam SE]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

Hey thanks so much! That's super informative and explains a lot. I had a feeling what I wanted wasn't possible, but I'm glad to know that 4PDT is an option if I can find the real estate in my guitar. You're right about simulating the triple shots with 2 mini toggles, it fits my ideal layout but the switching is not totally intuitive. Now that you mention it, I am starting to lean towards having both pickups be switched independently for more tonal options.

No worries ArtieToo, take your time, that's a crazy long work week.

 

[jmatacola]

Re: P-Rails Confusion (Impossible Request?)

A router is a wonderful thing. Just enlarge the cavity under the pick guard. Remember to seal the wood with a good cellulose gel or the wood could dry out and crack over time.