P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

lyongraulty

lyongraulty

New member
Just got on the forum today, and its been very helpful, so thanks to everybody for the useful info!

I am trying to devise a way to get all the potential sounds out of the P rails without having to drill into my Les Paul. Is it possible to wire these puppies with a rotary switch? or maybe one of those 4 way toggles? (which are rare - but I have seen them). I want to maintain my 2 vol - 2 tone configuration, but still have room for an added switch. So so I said, "hey why not a concentric pot for both the tone controls?" That way I can have push/pulls for the volumes to get maximum switching.

Here is my setup: The stock HB in the neck position sounds a bit muddy and doesn't have the clarity or punch that I want for comping or blasting a solo. I plan on installing my P rail in the neck position. I have a HB in the bridge position which I like enough to keep. (It'll also help me as a reference of what the unmodified sound was.)

Here is my ideal setup: single coil / parallel HB / series HB / P90 - all on one rotary or toggle switch. I would then use the other push/pull pot to put the pickups out of phase in relation to each other to create that raw honking sound (a la Peter Green).

The other pull pot could change the neck pickup ---- either series / parallel or coil cutting.

It's a tall order I know, but anything close will help me out.

Thanks everybody
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

One more thing...

Has anybody used a blend pot for the p-rail to blend the single coil and the P90? In the middle position with both signals full it should sound like a humbucker right?

If this worked it could offer some nice options.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Hermetico said:
Yes, you can achieve that with a 4 poles rotary switch. With 4 throws you can get all you mentioned from your P-Rails. With 6 throws you can get the full 6 sounds from a humbucker (those you mentioned, plus: coils in series OOP and coils in parallel OOP). So, you choose one 4P4T or 4P6T rotary switch.
Click to expand...

Yes, 2 rotary switches sounds like the way to go. The possibilities are endless. I might eventually replace the HB with another P-rail and it would be nice not to have to overhaul the wiring. Plus it would be fun to hear how the wiring affects the sounds on the HB.

Do you have a diagram that could meet my needs? I have never wired a rotary switch - it looks like a pain. But I'm up to it!

By the way, any thoughts on using a blend pot for mixing the two coils?
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

This is VERY, VERY INTERESTING!!!!

Now to take this a step further, how about Hermetico's suggestion
using 4P6T switches and concentric pots, PLUS another 4P6T switch
to provide all combinations for both pickups?

It would only be a slight alteration to the look of the Les Paul by replacing
the toggle with a rotary and easily reversible.

Hermetico, there's a bottle of Freixenet Cava waiting for you....SI LO SACAS!!

I'd love to try this.
Will.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Now to take this a step further, how about Hermetico's suggestion
using 4P6T switches and concentric pots, PLUS another 4P6T switch
to provide all combinations for both pickups?
Click to expand...

Will, I like where you're going with this. Getting the pickups to react in series or parallel would be an interesting option that I'm not sure we could get from hermetico's scheme. (The phasing control we have here is pickup to pickup, right? I thought humbuckers where one coil is out of phase with the other sound very weak and generally unusable.)

So I see myself needing at most a 4 pole 4 throw switch:

1: Bridge
2: Bridge/Neck Parallel
3: Bridge/Neck Series
4: Neck

Plus, I don't know if I could part with my pickup selector toggle. If they made a 4 way toggle (instead of the Tele, blade style) I would think about it, but the 6 way seems excessive.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

My favourite Tele sound is B+N series OOP as found on the "Guitarnuts" site.
I do that 5 way mod on all my Teles with single coils though I reckon with
P-90's it could be a very useful sound.

I remember reading that Carlos Santana loved his 6 way L-6,
"he could have a Les Paul, SG, Strat and Tele all in the one guitar".

I found the schematic on the Gibson site, but I can only read diagrams
laid out for dummies. Also there is an Ebay store that often has the NOS
6 way switches at 2 for $10 or there abouts. Do a search "marauder"
under guitar parts and you'll find him.

Hermetico......Jamas lo dudaba!! I read all your wiring input hear on the forums
with much interest and respect.
BTW, Fosters is our export crap, Coopers, Boags and Cascade are way better!

Cheers gents.....

Will.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Eres un genio tio!!! = FCKN Genuis!!!

Is the left part of the rotary switch the top or the bottom?

Segura Viudas......... a better drop?

Salud, Will (Guille)
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

This looks BADASS!! Thanks for the diagram! I can't wait to get started - the parts are on their way. I think I'll try it first with a regular 3 way toggle, but then maybe later I'll add the 3rd rotary switch. I want to see what I can do with these sounds first. Once I get this wired up and I hear the p-rail, I'll probably want another one to compliment it. But for now, this looks brilliant!

I think this wiring scheme could help a lot of people who are looking to get the most out their p-rails.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

pickup arrived today, but I don't have the switches to start the wiring. Can't stand it! What a tease!

No one seems to to want to comment on the blend pot, but I think it would be useful to be able to control how much signal you get from each coil. you could get P90 with a touch of the rail, a humbucker that's pushed towards the rail side, etc.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

If you only cared about Parallel humbucking sound, then you could feasibly use a blend control (stacked pot like on a Jazz bass) to blend from Rail to Parallel to P90. If you wanted series in the middle, it's a bit more complicated. In one direction you could fade away the Rail coil and be left with the P90, but in the other direction you'd be folding the rail coil into the hot signal, which probably would not yield a smooth transition from HB to P90.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Maybe MikeS or ArtieToo understand better what are you talking about. Me not, that's why I have nothing to say.
Click to expand...

It's cool hermetico, you've been more help than I could have hoped for so far. I was wondering if I could control the mix of each coil within one pickup by blending either way, while keeping a genuine humbucker sound (either parallel or series) in the middle. But it seems like it doesnt work that way...

If you only cared about Parallel humbucking sound, then you could feasibly use a blend control (stacked pot like on a Jazz bass) to blend from Rail to Parallel to P90. If you wanted series in the middle, it's a bit more complicated. In one direction you could fade away the Rail coil and be left with the P90, but in the other direction you'd be folding the rail coil into the hot signal, which probably would not yield a smooth transition from HB to P90.
Click to expand...

I definitely want to retain the control over series/parallel, (not to mention in phase/OOP) and it seems i would lose that. So i guess the blend pot is not the way to go.
 
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Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Well, I finally got the thing rigged up. The P-Rail sound great. I love the p-90 tone and the parallel HB rocks for a scooped lead sound or clear rhythm parts. The single coil by itself is a little weak, but it's really useful for coloring the other sounds. I think Hermetico's diagram worked for the most part, but I am having some issues.

Since I only have one p-rail (so far) I only used the rotary on the p-rail (neck) control. By itself I can get all the sounds, but some of the low output settings will be hard to make work in a live setting.

For the other pickup I kept the stock Gibson bridge HB and made it into a 4 conductor by fishing out the two leads that connected the coils inside the pickup. I then ran all the wires to a DPDT two position switch for series/parallel control. Here's the new wiring plan that I am using (I also switched the volume controls to independent because I was getting some wierd bleed issues.)

attachment.php


The way I have it wired now is giving me some problems with the bridge pickup. I am able to get what sounds like a parallel sound, but it's not humcanceling. with the switch on the other side, it's silent - the series sound is not happening at all. I tried reversing the red and white cables on the switch, but that got me nothing.

The other problem is the 6 way rotary pickup selector switch. The positions are numbered 1 - 6 (where 1 is clicked furthest clockwise). Here's how it sounds to me:

1) Neck + Bridge (series?)
2) Same as 1
3) Neck + Bridge (parallel?)
4) Bridge Only
5) Neck Only (all settings good except the parallel HB is not humcanelling)
6) No Sound

What can you make of this? I'll try to get some photos of the circuit up when I get the chance. Maybe I'll put the 3 way selector back in, and just wire it normally. The only sound from that selector that really interests me is the pickups together in parallel with eachother. I could just hard-wire the switch that way, but then I would lose the pickups in series option.

Maybe I messed up along the way, but I have checked and re-checked the circuit, and It looks like it matches the diagram. All the points seems solid and nothing shorts out when I jiggle the switch. What do people think? Can anybody shed some light on the situation?
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

And this one, for independent volumes:

But you can expect some bleed from the pickups, even with the pots off.
Click to expand...

Thanks for those, I ended up abandoning the independent volumes. I'm not sure what it is, but I think the circuit loses something with it wired that way.

The way I have it sounds good right now except that the series p-rail setting is still not humcanceling. I just tried it wired up with a basic 3 way (on/on/on -- parallel/P90/series) and the hum wasn't there. I'm also getting p90 hum, but I'm guessing it's the acceptable level. (I'm not used to single coils.) I think I might do the double rotary thing and do all the sounds from the original HB too. That way I can get one of the coils to cancel with the P90 in the combined setting.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Would this work?

rotary-two-hums.gif


I was trying to get a more intuitive design, where the most usable sounds a close to each other and I think this diagram should work. I wired it up this way, but I can't seem to get it right. It's giving me neck/parallel/bridge, but the others aren't working.

Here's another view of it that I made for my own sake. It doesn't have the pots and the other rotary switch, but you get the idea.
 
Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

Hey, I've been looking all over for some guidance on how to set up a configuration to get the most possible sounds from a P-Rails. I'm not quite a pro at wiring so diagrams are helpfull. I came across this thread which is along the lines of what I was looking for.

I see that in/out of phase along with series/parallel options are controlled by the switch. However, would it be possible to independently choose position, in/out of phase and, independently series/parallel? For example, would it be possible to use the rotary switch to choose the mode (P-90, single or humbucker) --probably needing to use two, one for each position--and use coil taps to choose in/out of phase with the volume control tapped and series/parallel tone control tapped? And then to choose which position pickup are activated using on/off switches? Is any of this even possible?

Perhaps an answer to this could help in finding a solution to the original questions.
Thanks,
Chris
 
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Re: P- Rails - Wiring with a rotary switch?

I had a brainstorm when I saw hermetico's diagram using two 4 position rotary switches here https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=135719.

Seeing that made me think of the two tiered switches that I have been using, and how I might be able to use each tier for a separate pickup. I think I worked it out. The first four positions are identical, so in the middle setting (or with the series switch engaged) you could only select the same setting from each pickup. But on the 5th and 6th setting, I have one pickup going to rail and one to P90, so you could get two extra P90+rail sounds. (four if you count the series/parallel switch).

It seems to me that this is functionally the same as Artie's coil swap mod, and you could do it with that wiring plus a two tiered (4 pole) 4 position switch. The only reason I did it this way was because I already have a few 4P6T switches and wanted to use them.

I've never seen anybody do it this way, so I have no idea if this is innovative or just silly. I haven't gotten a chance to wire it up yet, but I'll try it soon and let you all know how it goes.

BTW: Here's the specific breakdown for the way the pickups and the coils are selected:

top tier: neck pickup:

1) series HB
2) rail
3) P90
4) parallel HB
5) P90
6) rail

bottom tier: bridge pickup

1) series HB
2) rail
3) P90
4) parallel HB
5) rail
6) P90

When middle is selected (or series switch engaged):

1) Neck HB (series) + Bridge HB (series)
2) Neck Rail + Bridge Rail
3) Neck P90 + Bridge P90
4) Neck HB (parallel) + Bridge HB (parallel)
5) Neck P90 + Bridge Rail
6) Neck Rail + Bridge P90
 
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