Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
- Thread starter NewWave
- Start date
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Neither is better, both are great pickups.
The Seth is a little more smooth where the PG is a little more raw and the PG has a more firm low end than the Seth.
What are you looking for???
Neither is better, both are great pickups.
The Seth is a little more smooth where the PG is a little more raw and the PG has a more firm low end than the Seth.
What are you looking for???
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I just want to open a discussion actually.. what other people think better. I find seths (from video reviews) very warm and pearly (also from reviews) has very tight bottom end. I already have a nice warm neck pickup from my other les paul so I'm leaning with PG neck and for the bridge im looking for a rather bright (tele-like) and the pearly also comes with 4 conductors so PG gets my vote.
I just want to open a discussion actually.. what other people think better. I find seths (from video reviews) very warm and pearly (also from reviews) has very tight bottom end. I already have a nice warm neck pickup from my other les paul so I'm leaning with PG neck and for the bridge im looking for a rather bright (tele-like) and the pearly also comes with 4 conductors so PG gets my vote.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
No PAF pickups are "Tele bright" so that's one thing right there but some are less dark...if you want slice to the sound go alnico V...59's or Jazz pickups to start with or if you can find one a Pearly Gates+ which is a PG with an alnico V magnet.
No PAF pickups are "Tele bright" so that's one thing right there but some are less dark...if you want slice to the sound go alnico V...59's or Jazz pickups to start with or if you can find one a Pearly Gates+ which is a PG with an alnico V magnet.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
IMO, Seth's are a great PU, PG's are a good PU. Seth's have unbalanced coils and are unpotted; that gives more open, complex tones. Compared to PG's, the bridge sounds fuller, and the neck has more life to it. To my ears, PGN's are very smooth and rounded on top and in need of more treble. They'd be a great jazz PU. PGB's are surprisingly bright and thin (the neck could use some of that treble). I changed mags in my only set of PG's to brighten the neck and warm the bridge. I have several sets of Seth's and haven't wanted to change magnets in them. To me, Seth's have more of an edge, a rawer sound, partially from the unbalanced coils.
I bought both of these PU's because of what I read about them on this forum. Heard many good things about them. I was pleasantly surprised at how good Seth's are, and let down by PG's. If you like a bigger difference in EQ's between the bridge and neck, you may prefer PG's.
IMO, Seth's are a great PU, PG's are a good PU. Seth's have unbalanced coils and are unpotted; that gives more open, complex tones. Compared to PG's, the bridge sounds fuller, and the neck has more life to it. To my ears, PGN's are very smooth and rounded on top and in need of more treble. They'd be a great jazz PU. PGB's are surprisingly bright and thin (the neck could use some of that treble). I changed mags in my only set of PG's to brighten the neck and warm the bridge. I have several sets of Seth's and haven't wanted to change magnets in them. To me, Seth's have more of an edge, a rawer sound, partially from the unbalanced coils.
I bought both of these PU's because of what I read about them on this forum. Heard many good things about them. I was pleasantly surprised at how good Seth's are, and let down by PG's. If you like a bigger difference in EQ's between the bridge and neck, you may prefer PG's.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
That unbalanced coil stuff is nonsense according to MJ and also according to MJ neither of those pickups have unbalanced coils save for just picking 2 form a bin that are not dead on the same to each other...
That unbalanced coil stuff is nonsense according to MJ and also according to MJ neither of those pickups have unbalanced coils save for just picking 2 form a bin that are not dead on the same to each other...
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I read that here on the forum. I suppose the unpotted part is an unsubstantiated rumor too.
I read that here on the forum. I suppose the unpotted part is an unsubstantiated rumor too.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Think what you want but there is a difference between a potted and a non potted pickup...and if you don't believe me then do some experimenting on your own, if you can hear you'll hear it but you can also ask any good pickup winder and they'll tell you.
I asked MJ about the "mismatched coil" stuff when the forum was doing the Brobucker, I was told by her that it made little to no difference and she also said that no Duncan pickups had intentionally mismatched coils (this was before the 59/Custom hybrid) and when I told here about PG's with different coil readings she simply replied that they will never always be the same from coil to coil but they will all be pretty close and FWIW after doing a LOT of checking coils on various 4 wire Duncan pickups I've never found a wide gap in the 2 coils...ever.
I used to think (and post!) that part of the ton of the PG was the mismatched coils but I was wrong...
Think what you want but there is a difference between a potted and a non potted pickup...and if you don't believe me then do some experimenting on your own, if you can hear you'll hear it but you can also ask any good pickup winder and they'll tell you.
I asked MJ about the "mismatched coil" stuff when the forum was doing the Brobucker, I was told by her that it made little to no difference and she also said that no Duncan pickups had intentionally mismatched coils (this was before the 59/Custom hybrid) and when I told here about PG's with different coil readings she simply replied that they will never always be the same from coil to coil but they will all be pretty close and FWIW after doing a LOT of checking coils on various 4 wire Duncan pickups I've never found a wide gap in the 2 coils...ever.
I used to think (and post!) that part of the ton of the PG was the mismatched coils but I was wrong...
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I agree, unpotted HB's have a different tone, one of the virtues of Seth's. I read on this forum that the coils are unbalanbced, but haven't been able to verify it because my Seth's have single lead wires. Duncan makes some very good PAF's (I have all of them), and to me Seth's are the best of the bunch.
I agree, unpotted HB's have a different tone, one of the virtues of Seth's. I read on this forum that the coils are unbalanbced, but haven't been able to verify it because my Seth's have single lead wires. Duncan makes some very good PAF's (I have all of them), and to me Seth's are the best of the bunch.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
Here are the data that I've saved about a PG bridge that I've owned (resistance then inductance):
3.99 K / 1.89H & 4.14 K / 1.98 H.
I don't think this mismatching to be intentional if MJ has "said that no Duncan pickups had intentionally mismatched coils". Maybe this PG was an oddball.
That said, In 3 decades of measurements on Duncan PU's, I've sometimes noticed differences between theoretical specs and actual values. I remember a SSL1 RWRP whose inductance was of 2.27H only, vs the solid 2.6H of regular SSL1's.
Anyway, in my understanding, the PG coils are less mismatched in DCR than mismatched in TONE. The baseplate has a double row of holes: one for the screw poles and another below the slugs, like some Gibson pickups. AFAIK, it changes the magnetic behaviour of the slugs coil and "opens" the high range of the PU.
I'll post a screenshot about it.
To the OP: in my experience, the Seth sounds more honky and alive because of its unpotted coils but is softer than the PG. It's wonderfully 3D in bridge position, with nice complex mids. The PG is grittier, with a slightly higher overall inductance. I still think its magnet to be slightly more charged than in the Seth, although I've not measured the gauss in the two cases (it's just a supposition based on the peak output voltages that I've measured: 460mv with the PG and 420mv with the Seth). Personally, I like the Seth better, as being more authentic.
That being said to share my thoughts, data and experience and not to "argue" with the members who have posted before, as usual.
Here are the data that I've saved about a PG bridge that I've owned (resistance then inductance):
3.99 K / 1.89H & 4.14 K / 1.98 H.
I don't think this mismatching to be intentional if MJ has "said that no Duncan pickups had intentionally mismatched coils". Maybe this PG was an oddball.
That said, In 3 decades of measurements on Duncan PU's, I've sometimes noticed differences between theoretical specs and actual values. I remember a SSL1 RWRP whose inductance was of 2.27H only, vs the solid 2.6H of regular SSL1's.
Anyway, in my understanding, the PG coils are less mismatched in DCR than mismatched in TONE. The baseplate has a double row of holes: one for the screw poles and another below the slugs, like some Gibson pickups. AFAIK, it changes the magnetic behaviour of the slugs coil and "opens" the high range of the PU.
I'll post a screenshot about it.
To the OP: in my experience, the Seth sounds more honky and alive because of its unpotted coils but is softer than the PG. It's wonderfully 3D in bridge position, with nice complex mids. The PG is grittier, with a slightly higher overall inductance. I still think its magnet to be slightly more charged than in the Seth, although I've not measured the gauss in the two cases (it's just a supposition based on the peak output voltages that I've measured: 460mv with the PG and 420mv with the Seth). Personally, I like the Seth better, as being more authentic.
That being said to share my thoughts, data and experience and not to "argue" with the members who have posted before, as usual.
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
That's what I thought of PGn it can make a les paul sounds jazzy. What interests me is whether a SD jazz or PGn is better for jazz tone out of a solid body guitar. when you said that PGn lacks treble and PGb are too bright, have you tried playing in the middle position(I suppose you're using a les paul?) and setting the vol or tone?
What do you do with the un-potted seths then?
That's what I thought of PGn it can make a les paul sounds jazzy. What interests me is whether a SD jazz or PGn is better for jazz tone out of a solid body guitar. when you said that PGn lacks treble and PGb are too bright, have you tried playing in the middle position(I suppose you're using a les paul?) and setting the vol or tone?
What do you do with the un-potted seths then?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
If you want traditional warm jazz tones, I think a PGN will do that beter than a JazzN, which is a bright, clear PU. I use the middle toggle position, but wire all my guitars for independent volumes controls so I can blend the PU's. The middle position offers many more options like that, and that can partially compensate for an overly warm neck and bright, thin bridge, but I want both PU's to have great tones individually too. That way the middle position offers tone options 'in addition to', instead of 'in place of'.
Why the problem with Seth's being unpotted? Few of us have problems with feedback.
If you want traditional warm jazz tones, I think a PGN will do that beter than a JazzN, which is a bright, clear PU. I use the middle toggle position, but wire all my guitars for independent volumes controls so I can blend the PU's. The middle position offers many more options like that, and that can partially compensate for an overly warm neck and bright, thin bridge, but I want both PU's to have great tones individually too. That way the middle position offers tone options 'in addition to', instead of 'in place of'.
Why the problem with Seth's being unpotted? Few of us have problems with feedback.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
You can order Seths potted from a Duncan dealer at no extra cost you just have to wait a bit on them or if you want something close get a set of 59's (which are potted) and put alnico II magnets in them...it's not the same but it's close.
You can order Seths potted from a Duncan dealer at no extra cost you just have to wait a bit on them or if you want something close get a set of 59's (which are potted) and put alnico II magnets in them...it's not the same but it's close.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
No, potting won't change the overall tone.
A potted pickup in comparison to a non potted pickup has a sort of dead tone...the fact that a non potted pickup is always on the verge of feedback makes them sound and feel more alive to the player where a potted pickup is just sort of there.
How much gain are you looking to use??
I use almost all non potted pickups and never have an issue with feedback so it can be done but I don't play metal or anything.
No, potting won't change the overall tone.
A potted pickup in comparison to a non potted pickup has a sort of dead tone...the fact that a non potted pickup is always on the verge of feedback makes them sound and feel more alive to the player where a potted pickup is just sort of there.
How much gain are you looking to use??
I use almost all non potted pickups and never have an issue with feedback so it can be done but I don't play metal or anything.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Pearly Gates vs Seth Lover
I have read that on this forum too, I have also read the same thing about the PG...in fact when I was in the habit of simply passing on info I'd heard w/o checking my facts first I even posted on this forum myself that those pickups had mismatched coils but according to MJ it's not true. So, who ya gonna believe...somebody that posted it on the forum or MJ??
I mean if a Seth reads 8.5 total there is little chance that both coils will read exactly 4.25k because that's damn near impossible but it's not like there is some kind of engineered in mismatch to give the pickups their sound...in fact in the same of the Seth Lover getting the coils as close to each other was part of the whole idea of Seth original design!
I have read that on this forum too, I have also read the same thing about the PG...in fact when I was in the habit of simply passing on info I'd heard w/o checking my facts first I even posted on this forum myself that those pickups had mismatched coils but according to MJ it's not true. So, who ya gonna believe...somebody that posted it on the forum or MJ??
I mean if a Seth reads 8.5 total there is little chance that both coils will read exactly 4.25k because that's damn near impossible but it's not like there is some kind of engineered in mismatch to give the pickups their sound...in fact in the same of the Seth Lover getting the coils as close to each other was part of the whole idea of Seth original design!
