Barron1
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
Which one did he play live more. The Frankie. Alrighty then
Which one did he play live more. The Frankie. Alrighty then
People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
- Thread starter Barron1
- Start date
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
LOL. The tone everyone tries top copy, and is used as reference? The "Don Landee" studio tone. Half the first album has the Destroyer btw.
And the point is, it sounds similar. The Destroyer had the better tone, according to Ed himself. He said he just wanted the bar, so he'd use the strat. Alrighty!
LOL. The tone everyone tries top copy, and is used as reference? The "Don Landee" studio tone. Half the first album has the Destroyer btw.
And the point is, it sounds similar. The Destroyer had the better tone, according to Ed himself. He said he just wanted the bar, so he'd use the strat. Alrighty!
Barron1
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
I will clarify the thread then. It is for the Frankie. :dance:
I will clarify the thread then. It is for the Frankie. :dance:
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
I am from the frankie tone club and i know for positive that was used for ERUPTION and that is the tone i prefer:smokin:
I am from the frankie tone club and i know for positive that was used for ERUPTION and that is the tone i prefer:smokin:
IanBallard
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
Well, there's those who are otherwise talented guys, who spend hours getting those tones and therefore, they put that extra effort into replicating "The Hands". They have pretty good control and technique themselves. One of the keys is being able to mute the strings you need dead and Ed was a master of that. A lot of guys who played a lot of attempts at fast runs sounded like they were falling down stairs... *coughJimmyPagecough* ...but otherwise were good. That control of the fingers and that coordination with the hands can only be done a certain way. So, if you can play Van Halen tunes REALLY well, you've got the hands part down. Then you worry about whether the bias is running hot enough, etc...
Well, there's those who are otherwise talented guys, who spend hours getting those tones and therefore, they put that extra effort into replicating "The Hands". They have pretty good control and technique themselves. One of the keys is being able to mute the strings you need dead and Ed was a master of that. A lot of guys who played a lot of attempts at fast runs sounded like they were falling down stairs... *coughJimmyPagecough* ...but otherwise were good. That control of the fingers and that coordination with the hands can only be done a certain way. So, if you can play Van Halen tunes REALLY well, you've got the hands part down. Then you worry about whether the bias is running hot enough, etc...
Khriss Bliss
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
i absolutely dig this thread. i put the new frankenpup in a 78franknstrat,- the upper brightness and tone was brilliant, very tight wind made it percussive, def a very brown pickup, mebbe THE brown pup ( shd be!)- however i do invite those into the VH1 sound to retry the DiMarz SuprDist. NOT what eddie used, but since he used mighty mite clone thereof, the DMrz SuprDist wd enhance the fuzzier, less crisp attack that makes VH1 distinct fr later tones. Mostly, i submit fwiw, the SuprDist also has the same "chewy" feel that bent hi strings have, AND (mind u ive only tried suprDs on my
one gtr) if you notice how alot of sustained chords on vh1 (frank tunes) after they are struck, the highs roll off and the notes bunch into a lowmid growly purr- well, my axe w suprDs does exactly this too. just my 2 cents -VH1 vs. later discs has different characteristics that ive experienced w very overdriven DiMarzio Super Distortions, if u care to try BUT mind you i have no exp. w MightyMites... so a MM Sdist user can clarify at will...
i wd also add that where i lived, there was a clear line in sand, mostly by age, twixt the disgusted who thought EVH was not even music vs. the rest of us. i was class of 85, class of 84 had very few vh listeners, class of 86 had plenty. so if id been born two years, itd be much more likely id be 3 finger player.
i absolutely dig this thread. i put the new frankenpup in a 78franknstrat,- the upper brightness and tone was brilliant, very tight wind made it percussive, def a very brown pickup, mebbe THE brown pup ( shd be!)- however i do invite those into the VH1 sound to retry the DiMarz SuprDist. NOT what eddie used, but since he used mighty mite clone thereof, the DMrz SuprDist wd enhance the fuzzier, less crisp attack that makes VH1 distinct fr later tones. Mostly, i submit fwiw, the SuprDist also has the same "chewy" feel that bent hi strings have, AND (mind u ive only tried suprDs on my
one gtr) if you notice how alot of sustained chords on vh1 (frank tunes) after they are struck, the highs roll off and the notes bunch into a lowmid growly purr- well, my axe w suprDs does exactly this too. just my 2 cents -VH1 vs. later discs has different characteristics that ive experienced w very overdriven DiMarzio Super Distortions, if u care to try BUT mind you i have no exp. w MightyMites... so a MM Sdist user can clarify at will...
i wd also add that where i lived, there was a clear line in sand, mostly by age, twixt the disgusted who thought EVH was not even music vs. the rest of us. i was class of 85, class of 84 had very few vh listeners, class of 86 had plenty. so if id been born two years, itd be much more likely id be 3 finger player.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
I'll hafta find the magazine, but Ed stated in either GW or GFTPM that Eruption was done on the Gibson V with dead strings because they didn't make excess noise like fresh strings did.
As well, I believe the same book states he didn't even get the B/W Charvel until after VH-I was done, but he needed the guitar for the photo shoot, so they brought it in with the clearcoat literally still wet.
Further, I also seem to recall he stated the B/W became Frankie later on. Given that Frankie was the first one with the crooked humbucker (as he did also state because the poles didn't line up with the Floyd unless he turned it), it's not possible that Frankie was used for the first album.
As I said, I'll see if I can find the book (friggen PackRat Man going on here - I got everything :lol: )
The 1984 tone is easily distinguishable from all the previous albums - it's not as "punchy" or "raw" - a clear sign he changed pickups, since the amp and relative production stayed the same.
Oh, you also need an MXR Phase 90. If you're not using the right Phaser, you suck at VH.
Aaaand - it's not totally impossible for other people to cop Ed's tone, they simply might have to use other gear to do it.
Aaaaaaannnd...
Tone is all in the fingers. For the open-and-shut case, refer immediately to the Family Style album from SRV and Jimmy V, particularly the track where they're swapping the same guitar back and forth live during the recording. SRV sounds like SRV, Jimmy sounds like Jimmy, and it's just them, the guitar, one cable, and the same amp.
Here endeth the lesson.
I'll hafta find the magazine, but Ed stated in either GW or GFTPM that Eruption was done on the Gibson V with dead strings because they didn't make excess noise like fresh strings did.
As well, I believe the same book states he didn't even get the B/W Charvel until after VH-I was done, but he needed the guitar for the photo shoot, so they brought it in with the clearcoat literally still wet.
Further, I also seem to recall he stated the B/W became Frankie later on. Given that Frankie was the first one with the crooked humbucker (as he did also state because the poles didn't line up with the Floyd unless he turned it), it's not possible that Frankie was used for the first album.
As I said, I'll see if I can find the book (friggen PackRat Man going on here - I got everything :lol: )
The 1984 tone is easily distinguishable from all the previous albums - it's not as "punchy" or "raw" - a clear sign he changed pickups, since the amp and relative production stayed the same.
Oh, you also need an MXR Phase 90. If you're not using the right Phaser, you suck at VH.
Aaaand - it's not totally impossible for other people to cop Ed's tone, they simply might have to use other gear to do it.
Aaaaaaannnd...
Tone is all in the fingers. For the open-and-shut case, refer immediately to the Family Style album from SRV and Jimmy V, particularly the track where they're swapping the same guitar back and forth live during the recording. SRV sounds like SRV, Jimmy sounds like Jimmy, and it's just them, the guitar, one cable, and the same amp.
Here endeth the lesson.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
Hmmm. Ed seems to be contradictory:
GW May 2002:
http://newcenstein.com/EVH-Frankie-GW502.jpg
Here he says Frankie was indeed used for Eruption, yet I know I have another book where he states he used the Gibby V with dead strings, and did not get the B/W until the photo shoot for the album (still dripping wet).
By the way, I got to take a close look at the Charvel/EVH Frankie replica at NAMM in 08 - I never knew that mysterious blob in the center pickup route was the original blade switch :lol:
But for $10K, I wonder if the neck pickup actually works if it was wired up.
Should it?
Hmmm. Ed seems to be contradictory:
GW May 2002:
http://newcenstein.com/EVH-Frankie-GW502.jpg
Here he says Frankie was indeed used for Eruption, yet I know I have another book where he states he used the Gibby V with dead strings, and did not get the B/W until the photo shoot for the album (still dripping wet).
By the way, I got to take a close look at the Charvel/EVH Frankie replica at NAMM in 08 - I never knew that mysterious blob in the center pickup route was the original blade switch :lol:
But for $10K, I wonder if the neck pickup actually works if it was wired up.
Should it?
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
DrNewcenstein, he DID use a original 58 gibson V but it was on "hot for teacher" and "top of the world" but not on eruption, he didnt even own the V when eruption was recorded, he got it much later after he started rollin in the chips. he also owns two original les pauls, a 58 and a 59.
DrNewcenstein, he DID use a original 58 gibson V but it was on "hot for teacher" and "top of the world" but not on eruption, he didnt even own the V when eruption was recorded, he got it much later after he started rollin in the chips. he also owns two original les pauls, a 58 and a 59.
Binnerscot
Well-known member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
SD did the pups for the replica. The original neck pup was fried, but the replica pup works if you wire it up. I think it is similar in tone to an SSL-1 if I remember what Evan had said.
Hmmm. Ed seems to be contradictory:
GW May 2002:
But for $10K, I wonder if the neck pickup actually works if it was wired up.
Should it?
SD did the pups for the replica. The original neck pup was fried, but the replica pup works if you wire it up. I think it is similar in tone to an SSL-1 if I remember what Evan had said.
Binnerscot
Well-known member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
The EVH tone isn't too hard to get, the playing technique and EVH note/chord choice is much tougher.
I can get pretty smokin' EVH tones out a Mesa Stiletto, Mark V (crunch channel) will do it, and Bogner Fish...with the "right" guitar.
It just takes a super strat with the right pup (nothing beats the '78, though a JB can get close, the Crazy 8 does Mean Street really well, etc...angle is optional)...single volume is important to reduce the loading in the circuit. Pump it through a Marshall flavored amp, play it right, and BAM!
Effects are easy; grab an MXR Phase and MXR Flanger, and get a decent delay...add verb if you feel like it.
It isn't rocket science...but it does take playing skill.
The EVH tone isn't too hard to get, the playing technique and EVH note/chord choice is much tougher.
I can get pretty smokin' EVH tones out a Mesa Stiletto, Mark V (crunch channel) will do it, and Bogner Fish...with the "right" guitar.
It just takes a super strat with the right pup (nothing beats the '78, though a JB can get close, the Crazy 8 does Mean Street really well, etc...angle is optional)...single volume is important to reduce the loading in the circuit. Pump it through a Marshall flavored amp, play it right, and BAM!
Effects are easy; grab an MXR Phase and MXR Flanger, and get a decent delay...add verb if you feel like it.
It isn't rocket science...but it does take playing skill.
IanBallard
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
He owned the "Boogie/Charvel" Strat for a couple years before he recorded VH1, from what both Eddie and Wayne Charvel stated. Wayne even stated that he modded the "shark" right after he got it, so that means he DID use the hacked up Destroyer for the first record unless Wayne is wrong. He started hanging out at Charvel Mfg around '75 or so and likely put the "Frank" together shortly after that. He played it solid black for a short time (as there are numerous pictures of him using it in the Club Days), so you could be right about "dripping wet" but he may have recorded VH1 without the stripes yet, who knows. But obviously he used a tremolo guitar for Eruption, not something like a V or Destroyer. I honestly think he only used the Shark for the first record and recorded pretty much the next three records with Frankie. He really didn't like overdubs and preferred consistency, so it makes sense that he just stuck with his "baby". However, I'm starting to wonder if he used the mahogany Strat (Unchained guitar) for Fair Warning. The tone was totally thicker, darker and didn't have that "spank".
The linked article says something about "three pickup designs" with Peavey. Really? Although I think a Wolfgang with a Strat single configuration would sweet!! I have to agree with Ed about neck pickups... they just don't agree with me. I like a bridge pickup that's fat enough to "do it all".
He owned the "Boogie/Charvel" Strat for a couple years before he recorded VH1, from what both Eddie and Wayne Charvel stated. Wayne even stated that he modded the "shark" right after he got it, so that means he DID use the hacked up Destroyer for the first record unless Wayne is wrong. He started hanging out at Charvel Mfg around '75 or so and likely put the "Frank" together shortly after that. He played it solid black for a short time (as there are numerous pictures of him using it in the Club Days), so you could be right about "dripping wet" but he may have recorded VH1 without the stripes yet, who knows. But obviously he used a tremolo guitar for Eruption, not something like a V or Destroyer. I honestly think he only used the Shark for the first record and recorded pretty much the next three records with Frankie. He really didn't like overdubs and preferred consistency, so it makes sense that he just stuck with his "baby". However, I'm starting to wonder if he used the mahogany Strat (Unchained guitar) for Fair Warning. The tone was totally thicker, darker and didn't have that "spank".
The linked article says something about "three pickup designs" with Peavey. Really? Although I think a Wolfgang with a Strat single configuration would sweet!! I have to agree with Ed about neck pickups... they just don't agree with me. I like a bridge pickup that's fat enough to "do it all".
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
For the 1st record ed used that boogie body painted all black with a rosewood strat neck (the stripes come right before the photo shoot but after recording was finished). the guitar also had a mighty mite 1300 super distortion copy in it. any dimarzio super d will do the job just fine in a guitar like he used on that record. here is the guitar that he used on all the tracks with a whammy,
For the 1st record ed used that boogie body painted all black with a rosewood strat neck (the stripes come right before the photo shoot but after recording was finished). the guitar also had a mighty mite 1300 super distortion copy in it. any dimarzio super d will do the job just fine in a guitar like he used on that record. here is the guitar that he used on all the tracks with a whammy,
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51501984
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
That`s possible EH but the only people that are gonna know what was used on that album are the people that were in the studio. I`ve read all those bazillion threads at Metroamp also
That`s possible EH but the only people that are gonna know what was used on that album are the people that were in the studio. I`ve read all those bazillion threads at Metroamp also
IanBallard
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
Eddie also stated that he used real Fender Strats, so that guitar COULD have been a real Fender with a 'bucker stuck in it. All in all, that is officially the first HSS Strat.
Eddie also stated that he used real Fender Strats, so that guitar COULD have been a real Fender with a 'bucker stuck in it. All in all, that is officially the first HSS Strat.
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
It is PURE MADNESS over there huh?:lmao:
That`s possible EH but the only people that are gonna know what was used on that album are the people that were in the studio. I`ve read all those bazillion threads at Metroamp also
It is PURE MADNESS over there huh?:lmao:
IanBallard
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
If you had a time machine and gave Eddie a Wolfgang and a 5150III, he'd have used it in a heartbeat, over the gear he had. I really honestly don't think he'll ever go back to THAT sound because it was A. What he liked then B. What he had to work with based on highly limited choices and C. What was possible at that time. When you compare VH1 and Balance, for example, it's night and day in terms of sound. I personally like both, but am starting to more appreciate his newer sound because it's really more like what I would want... very clean sustain. His overall sense of chords and texture is way better to me too. Almost everything he did with Roth was A pentatonic licks of some sort. I really like his newer "wall of sound" approach and more complex chord and melody choices. Just like a jazz musician, critics always dog artists because they change. I embrace change and respect an artist for moving forward. I wish people would "get over" the old Roth sound. That was then... this is now. I HOPE the new record is a step forward, not backward.
If you had a time machine and gave Eddie a Wolfgang and a 5150III, he'd have used it in a heartbeat, over the gear he had. I really honestly don't think he'll ever go back to THAT sound because it was A. What he liked then B. What he had to work with based on highly limited choices and C. What was possible at that time. When you compare VH1 and Balance, for example, it's night and day in terms of sound. I personally like both, but am starting to more appreciate his newer sound because it's really more like what I would want... very clean sustain. His overall sense of chords and texture is way better to me too. Almost everything he did with Roth was A pentatonic licks of some sort. I really like his newer "wall of sound" approach and more complex chord and melody choices. Just like a jazz musician, critics always dog artists because they change. I embrace change and respect an artist for moving forward. I wish people would "get over" the old Roth sound. That was then... this is now. I HOPE the new record is a step forward, not backward.
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
Ian we all have our own likes and opinions and i respect yours, personally have not liked any tone he has had since live without a net.
Ian we all have our own likes and opinions and i respect yours, personally have not liked any tone he has had since live without a net.
IanBallard
New member
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
I think my opinion, besides personal aural and sonic preference, is doused with sympathy for artists who evolve and the general fans and critics who can't deal with it. You could be AC/DC and stay the same, use the same chords and be successful to those who are content with "things staying the same", but I respect and admire Eddie and Al too, who have made an effort to improve, evolve and differentiate themselves from "who they used to be". Of course, this is the jazz musician in me who is downright ashamed of the way I used to play and sound. I think the fanbase and critics also, can't get over his personal issues and drug/alcohol problems and overlook his art for that. I mean, nobody thinks of Charlie Parker as a junkie first, do they? So I think modern society if very skewed in how they view artists, in my opinion. On that note, I respect the opinion that "his old tone was the best" because those albums significantly changed rock and roll guitar playing forever and people like to hold on to that magic. The other factor is that he started using multiple amps, harmonizers and preamps in the studio to get a denser, more complex sound. It's easier to get a Marshall Plexi-type amp with the appropriate instrument and approximate the first 3 or 4 albums. It's considerably more difficult to nail his tone from F.U.C.K onward.
I think my opinion, besides personal aural and sonic preference, is doused with sympathy for artists who evolve and the general fans and critics who can't deal with it. You could be AC/DC and stay the same, use the same chords and be successful to those who are content with "things staying the same", but I respect and admire Eddie and Al too, who have made an effort to improve, evolve and differentiate themselves from "who they used to be". Of course, this is the jazz musician in me who is downright ashamed of the way I used to play and sound. I think the fanbase and critics also, can't get over his personal issues and drug/alcohol problems and overlook his art for that. I mean, nobody thinks of Charlie Parker as a junkie first, do they? So I think modern society if very skewed in how they view artists, in my opinion. On that note, I respect the opinion that "his old tone was the best" because those albums significantly changed rock and roll guitar playing forever and people like to hold on to that magic. The other factor is that he started using multiple amps, harmonizers and preamps in the studio to get a denser, more complex sound. It's easier to get a Marshall Plexi-type amp with the appropriate instrument and approximate the first 3 or 4 albums. It's considerably more difficult to nail his tone from F.U.C.K onward.
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.
all i know is that some of the guys over at metro take gettin his old tone a bit too serious IMHO. I am not all that concerned with anything beyond his basic set-up from those days. I am definitely not out to cop his tone dead on like some and am quite happy with how close the JB in a charvel through a old marshall gets me. thats close enough for me to be honest and past that you are just splitting hairs. its like others here always suggest try a CC,JB,78 or a 59 for his older tone if that dont work then you need a new amp or different hands!:lmao:
all i know is that some of the guys over at metro take gettin his old tone a bit too serious IMHO. I am not all that concerned with anything beyond his basic set-up from those days. I am definitely not out to cop his tone dead on like some and am quite happy with how close the JB in a charvel through a old marshall gets me. thats close enough for me to be honest and past that you are just splitting hairs. its like others here always suggest try a CC,JB,78 or a 59 for his older tone if that dont work then you need a new amp or different hands!:lmao:
