People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Can someone please tell me were this JB thing is coming from? I have never heard EVH speak ofthe JB nor have I even heard it speculated about prior to the last few months. I don't hear JB. Even the MM's don't sound like JB's to me. They very much have a stereotypical Dimarzio sound to them.

Live without a Net sounds like a 59 to me. A JB would have a lot more gain/drive
 
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Audio... look at the history of the SLO-100. It didn't come on the market until 1987 and the first paying customers were Mark Knoffler and Clapton. So it's not even possible that Eddie used one on 5150 and almost as unlikely he used it on OU812, recorded in 1987. There are lots of compressors, harmonizers and other do-dads that can produce the searing, shimmery tones of "BofBW" and "Black and Blue" using the very same Marshall. He also used preamps designed by various people including John Suhr to add gain and shape the tone stack as he wanted.

As far as the pickup in the Kramer... it may have been a custom wind for all we know. But the Kramer replica "1984" had a 16+k/A5 humbucker and the pickup in the MM was "supposed" to be modeled after what was in the Kramer and it tops 16k and features an A5 mag. I REALLY doubt he used a '59. But we'll never know for sure.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

7 + 4 + 13 + 5 + 8 = 37
2 + 8 + 20 + 3 + 4 = 37
11 + 3 + 6 + 8 + 9 = 37
5 + 14 + 4 + 1 + 13 = 37
Etc., etc.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Can someone please tell me were this JB thing is coming from? I have never heard EVH speak ofthe JB nor have I even heard it speculated about prior to the last few months. I don't hear JB. Even the MM's don't sound like JB's to me. They very much have a stereotypical Dimarzio sound to them.

Live without a Net sounds like a 59 to me. A JB would have a lot more gain/drive

The pu in the guitar that ed used on live without a net(kramer 5150) had a 16.4K pu in it,thats one hell of a hot 59.
steve blucher at dimarzio is the guy that copied the pu in the 5150 kramer for the EBMM EVH sig guitar and he said it was a duncan JB
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

The pu in the guitar that ed used on live without a net(kramer 5150) had a 16.4K pu in it,thats one hell of a hot 59.
steve blucher at dimarzio is the guy that copied the pu in the 5150 kramer for the EBMM EVH sig guitar and he said it was a duncan JB

I own a Kramer from that era with a JB.

EVH aint playin' no JB.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

So Ed went from a SuperD/Might Mite[43g/Cer Magnet] ---> PAF/Overwound PAF[42g/Alnico 2,5]---> SD CustomCustom/Frank[43g/Alnico5,2] ---> JB/DMZ Custom [44g/Alnico 5] ---> Wolfgang Pups[43g/Alnico]. Amps and Guitars have changed. His pref for maple necks seem to be constant. And something that stayed consistant in his tone is that twang/single-coilness from the D and G string. I'm thinking the maple neck and also his use of thin picks. I think the thin picks give more attack, snap, brightness than heavier ones. The only pups i have'nt tried are PAF style. I'm still debating on a duncan 59 or DMZ PAF/Air Classic.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

I own a Kramer from that era with a JB.

EVH aint playin' no JB.

and i own a stock baretta from 84 and it has a JB and i have no problem getting older VH tones? what amp are you using?
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Many people are after the early Van Halen tone. So they get on a never ending quest of buying different pickups to get it. There are some aftermarket pickups out there that get close. But people forget two little things when they install it:

1) Angle the humbucker like Van Halen did. I know some people say it really doesn't matter how the strings are lined up. I disagree. How the poles line up or don't line up with the strings does make a difference, not a huge difference. BUT my ears do detect a slight difference. Find a photo of how his strings and poles line up and copy it.

2) No tone pots. Having no tone pots does sound different from when you load the pickup with a tone pot. Without tone pots the pickup sounds louder and brighter. Early VH connected his pickups to one volume knob. That's it. Disconnect those TONE pots or throw them away.


These are just two little tweaks that will get you closer the that early Van Halen tone.


two steps.

Buy a budget humbucker and Buy a reject guitar body
slap in the pickups 1 pot, and jack, then Attack the body with random paint.

Should get you there. Worked for EVH. :D
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

two steps.

Buy a budget humbucker and Buy a reject guitar body
slap in the pickups 1 pot, and jack, then Attack the body with random paint.

Should get you there. Worked for EVH. :D

you forgot one step, have unbelievable gifted fingers and natural talent!:headbang:
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Seymour Duncan's Facebook page posted this photo:
images


With this caption: "Just a few Plexi's, nothing crazy or anything... Here's Eddie's rig in 1986 when he started using a few custom shop Seymour Duncan's." Hmmmm, quite interesting. I wonder if anybody could shed light on exactly what those pickups were? ;)
 
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

and i own a stock baretta from 84 and it has a JB and i have no problem getting older VH tones? what amp are you using?

Powerscaled Metropoulos plexi (no bright cap) into a 2x12 with Scumback m25s.

My Kramer is a Pacer Deluxe from 1985. A lot of my guitars capture aspects of the VH tone (p90 PRS, Mahogany strat with a Custom, Flying V with Seth Lovers, and especially my swamp ash strat with an a2 custom/59 hybrid) and the JB has something that just. isn't. right.

I can hear that tone from a mile away. I can instantly hear it in the SD sound clips (despite the clips played through an LP and a different amp, and me through a Kramer Pacer into whatever), and the JB has a signature tone/flavoring that is in none of the VH (VH1 - 1984) recordings.

In a pinch, it will do. But if you are tone-chasing, the you are going down the wrong path.
 
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Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

So Ed went from a SuperD/Might Mite[43g/Cer Magnet] ---> PAF/Overwound PAF[42g/Alnico 2,5]---> SD CustomCustom/Frank[43g/Alnico5,2] ---> JB/DMZ Custom [44g/Alnico 5] ---> Wolfgang Pups[43g/Alnico]. Amps and Guitars have changed. His pref for maple necks seem to be constant. And something that stayed consistant in his tone is that twang/single-coilness from the D and G string. I'm thinking the maple neck and also his use of thin picks. I think the thin picks give more attack, snap, brightness than heavier ones. The only pups i have'nt tried are PAF style. I'm still debating on a duncan 59 or DMZ PAF/Air Classic.

Bingo! At last somone has put it in a nutshell. Copy and paste this..this man has done his homework! (You didnt get itno the tonewoods used on the guitars though).
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

On You Really Got Me, you can hear those chirps in the solo before the pickup toggle part. I'm sure that was due to the fact that his pickup was really close to the strings. Since alot of people say it was a Super Distortion/Mighy Mite pickup, then that was part of his tone also?Maybe? A ceramic/43g up close to the strings~ But would a ceramic pup that close to the string sound good?
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

On You Really Got Me, you can hear those chirps in the solo before the pickup toggle part. I'm sure that was due to the fact that his pickup was really close to the strings. Since alot of people say it was a Super Distortion/Mighy Mite pickup, then that was part of his tone also?Maybe? A ceramic/43g up close to the strings~ But would a ceramic pup that close to the string sound good?
that track was done with his ibanez destroyer and stock super 70 pu's thats why it was set close to the strings. the super 70 is lower output paf type. the mighty mite was in the strat
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

Do they make a bigger difference than the relic marks on the quarter?

hey this sounds about right. besides all that remember the celestian greenback speakers have a big say in his tone as well. no matter what the amp he uses he seems to never budge on his love for that speaker and I recognize its tone on all his early stuff.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

After listening to the Warner Bros Demos and VH1, I'm more certain that the strat had a PAF that was set real close to the strings. It sounds very different from the destroyer, more open and cleaner[YRGM vs Show Your Love]. I figure before recording the Demos/ VH1, ED probably changed the ceramic pickup in the strat after getting the bands advance. I think during mixing, thats when they tried to make the two sounds closer. After realizing the PAf was thinner and brighter compared to the Destoryer, thats when EVH went to Duncan to get a rewind. Then after recording Ed put the ceramic back in for some live shows while having the PAF rewound.

Side note, the EVH wolfgang pups have similar spec to the Super Distortion/Mighty Mite/Super 70s[43g/~14k]. So maybe he's going back to the Destroyer type of tone in the new EVH Wolfgangs.

Just a theory~
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

that track was done with his ibanez destroyer and stock super 70 pu's thats why it was set close to the strings. the super 70 is lower output paf type. the mighty mite was in the strat

First, the Super 70's used Alnico 8 which is a very strong magnet. The distance to the strings is more relevant to the magnet strength than the coil winding. The coils don't "care" how far or close they are... it's the magnet pull that you have to consider. Second, we have no idea what pickups were in that guitar. It's also been assumed that his Ibanez was "stock" at that point and he modded it after. However, according to Wayne Charvel, he modded it right away (interviewer questions in bold):

...Then going back when we were in our other shop, I just thought of this, Eddie had a brand new Ibanez Destroyer, an Explorer copy. He wanted me to paint it black, but I didn’t have time to do it.

What color was it?

It was natural, a natural color. He said, “Will you paint this black?” I said, “Yeah.” “How long will it take?” I said, “Oh, man, it’s gonna take 3 months before I even begin to get it for you.” I said, “But it’s brand new, it looks great, Ed.” He said, “Oh, I want it black.” So then we moved to the other shop and he came up there. He drilled holes all the way through it. Do you know what a Star guitar looks like? Like an Explorer.

The Charvel Star?

The Explorer is like this, right? He drilled holes all the way down like this, like a shark or something. After he did that, he took a saw and cut through the center of the hole so that he would have a hole like this. When you cut through this half of it, you ended up with this all the way down.

Like a serrated edge?

Yeah, I couldn’t believe he did that to that brand new guitar! It was like, “Hey, if I can’t get it painted, I’m going to do something else.” He just completely thrashed it up.


I trust Wayne's recollection. It's pretty clear, way before they were signed to a label and he was just a kid hanging out in the shop, he was already potting pickups and swapping, so there is absolutely no way we'll ever know exactly what was in either one of those guitars.
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

First, the Super 70's used Alnico 8 which is a very strong magnet. The distance to the strings is more relevant to the magnet strength than the coil winding. The coils don't "care" how far or close they are... it's the magnet pull that you have to consider. Second, we have no idea what pickups were in that guitar. It's also been assumed that his Ibanez was "stock" at that point and he modded it after. However, according to Wayne Charvel, he modded it right away (interviewer questions in bold):

...Then going back when we were in our other shop, I just thought of this, Eddie had a brand new Ibanez Destroyer, an Explorer copy. He wanted me to paint it black, but I didn’t have time to do it.

What color was it?

It was natural, a natural color. He said, “Will you paint this black?” I said, “Yeah.” “How long will it take?” I said, “Oh, man, it’s gonna take 3 months before I even begin to get it for you.” I said, “But it’s brand new, it looks great, Ed.” He said, “Oh, I want it black.” So then we moved to the other shop and he came up there. He drilled holes all the way through it. Do you know what a Star guitar looks like? Like an Explorer.

The Charvel Star?

The Explorer is like this, right? He drilled holes all the way down like this, like a shark or something. After he did that, he took a saw and cut through the center of the hole so that he would have a hole like this. When you cut through this half of it, you ended up with this all the way down.

Like a serrated edge?

Yeah, I couldn’t believe he did that to that brand new guitar! It was like, “Hey, if I can’t get it painted, I’m going to do something else.” He just completely thrashed it up.


I trust Wayne's recollection. It's pretty clear, way before they were signed to a label and he was just a kid hanging out in the shop, he was already potting pickups and swapping, so there is absolutely no way we'll ever know exactly what was in either one of those guitars.

True True, I was just trying to come to other conclusions and theories. I was listening really hard and just heard those differences. I also noticed that there was not a lot of tapping in those demos. Any thoughts?
 
Re: People forget two things when chasing the early Van Halen tone.

After listening to the Warner Bros Demos and VH1, I'm more certain that the strat had a PAF that was set real close to the strings. It sounds very different from the destroyer, more open and cleaner[YRGM vs Show Your Love]. I figure before recording the Demos/ VH1, ED probably changed the ceramic pickup in the strat after getting the bands advance. I think during mixing, thats when they tried to make the two sounds closer. After realizing the PAf was thinner and brighter compared to the Destoryer, thats when EVH went to Duncan to get a rewind. Then after recording Ed put the ceramic back in for some live shows while having the PAF rewound.

Side note, the EVH wolfgang pups have similar spec to the Super Distortion/Mighty Mite/Super 70s[43g/~14k]. So maybe he's going back to the Destroyer type of tone in the new EVH Wolfgangs.

Just a theory~

The Super 70's were like T-tops with an A8... like 7-7.5k if I'm not mistaken. But yeah.... there are pictures in the club days with zebra pups and what looks like double-cream DiMarzios or Mighty Mite clones of them. He's a tone-chaser. He was trying all kinds of things. As far as the records go, the tone of Frankie was definitely different from VH1 to VH2. I'm in total agreement that the bass was thicker and tighter on the first record and the amp growled a little harder. With his "Seymour 78" hot-PAF, it was smoother and more open with looser bass.... check out the solo on "You're No Good" for example.
 
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