Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

So it seems i can pay a vast sum of money to get these pickups that i will only be able to feel, no audio demo is going to be able to illustrate their special qualities. Ok ... point me to a store where they have a guitar equipped with these pickups so i can try them for myself and experience the nirvana that i will pay highly for. Exactly how many music stores are likely to take a set of these onboard, at their own expense, to use as demonstration models ? How many of those stores will be in Australia ?

So far all i understand is that i should buy these pickups based on the words of Orpheo and the premise that they will make me feel good when i play. I already feel good when i play due to hybrids made from SD coils, and BKP pickups. Personally i think the best thing would be to give up on this travesty and put the JB/Custom bridge hybrid and the 59/Jazz neck hybrid into the production line. Both pickups that have that 'need to be experienced by playing' factor but some of it can still be captured by recording (if anyone ever actually makes a demo that actually demonstrates the sounds rather than making people's ears curl up with wanky noodling and revolting distortion that causes almost everything to sound equally ugly). The hybrids are already out there, in use, and can be made and marketed for very little money compared to Zephyrs.

The Zephyrs have been a worthy experiment, but began with mystery that has progressed steadily downhill to mockery and disdain. The unsellable product. Time to pull the plug and put the other hybrids into production instead. That would be a win/win situation, and a lot easier to promote the hybrids.

 

[0v3nm4n]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

what kind of magnet and gauge wire is used in the Zephyrs? What I don't completely get is what its true identity is. Is it a 1080p version of an already existing pup, or is it its own creation. I was also wondering if it could be used with a: blackout pre-amp, a stellar tone knob, a mood knob/bass contour, or a [passive] villex midrange booster? How does it work with in/out of phase and series/parallel wirings? The reason I ask is because all of these tone shaping devices subtract from the initial sound. Everything after a humbucker in series is just quiter. Since the Zephyr has 'extended range,' I wondered if using these tools would bring down its range/db to the range of a copper PU. Maybe Frank knows...

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

Exactly how many music stores are likely to take a set of these onboard, at their own expense, to use as demonstration models ? How many of those stores will be in Australia ?

I don't know how common it is in this industry, but in certain others, that's not far fetched at all. If the dealer demo program were attractive enough, I can see it being a good investment, given the potential for making a good margin on each pickup sold. Think about it:
1.) Demo pricing
2.) Terms discount/dating
3.) Floor-planning
4.) Performance guarantees
You could make this work.

One potential downside is people bringing in their own guitars and expecting to have the demo pickups temporarily installed in them, because they want to hear the Zephyrs in their own guitar before buying them. You respectfully decline. "Well, if I'm gonna pay that much money for pickups, I wanna hear them in my own guitar first!" To which it would be your temptation to respond, "If it's that much money to you, maybe you'd better just hold onto it instead. Pay off some credit card debt or something." Whatever.

I could see a dealer demo program being a good way to drive traffic to brick-and-mortar Seymour Duncan dealers. People are so used to having everything available at lower prices online, but having to wait a while. The in-store pickup shopping experience is usually pretty disappointing by comparison; they usually have so little on-hand, you have to buy it before you can touch it, taste it, smell it, play it, and chances are they don't even have the model and color you want anyway. They'll play it safe and have a black JB bridge, a zebra '59 neck, some Distortions, and maybe an old LiveWires in the back that's been opened. I think it would be great for the brand to give dealers something new and exciting they can show people in-store. I'd go try them if they were in a demo guitar in my city; I don't even care which dealer(s).

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

So it seems I can pay a vast sum of money to get these pickups that I will only be able to feel, no audio demo is going to be able to illustrate their special qualities. Ok ... point me to a store where they have a guitar equipped with these pickups so I can try them for myself and experience the nirvana that I will pay highly for.

I understand why this is not appealing to you, but players do this all the time. How many $4,000+ Les Pauls are sold online? We do it with amps, hand wired boutique or just high end Mesa's. People buy expensive bicycles, golf clubs, bed sheets, all based on how its going to feel to use them when they arrive, sight unseen (or feel unfelt, sound unheard etc.) You do it if you trust the brand, and what they're telling you. If you don't trust them, don't buy it.

But the truth of what they sound and feel like is unchanged. The sound and feel doesn't require your trust. It is what it is. So literally hundreds of people (whom I have witnessed first-hand) unanimously "get it". I didn't need any more proof than my own ears and fingers while we developed these, but 100 out of 100? 200 out of 200? Pretty good batting average, yeah?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

So it seems i can pay a vast sum of money to get these pickups that i will only be able to feel, no audio demo is going to be able to illustrate their special qualities. Ok ... point me to a store where they have a guitar equipped with these pickups so i can try them for myself and experience the nirvana that i will pay highly for. Exactly how many music stores are likely to take a set of these onboard, at their own expense, to use as demonstration models ? How many of those stores will be in Australia ?

So far all i understand is that i should buy these pickups based on the words of Orpheo and the premise that they will make me feel good when i play. I already feel good when i play due to hybrids made from SD coils, and BKP pickups. Personally i think the best thing would be to give up on this travesty and put the JB/Custom bridge hybrid and the 59/Jazz neck hybrid into the production line. Both pickups that have that 'need to be experienced by playing' factor but some of it can still be captured by recording (if anyone ever actually makes a demo that actually demonstrates the sounds rather than making people's ears curl up with wanky noodling and revolting distortion that causes almost everything to sound equally ugly). The hybrids are already out there, in use, and can be made and marketed for very little money compared to Zephyrs.

The Zephyrs have been a worthy experiment, but began with mystery that has progressed steadily downhill to mockery and disdain. The unsellable product. Time to pull the plug and put the other hybrids into production instead. That would be a win/win situation, and a lot easier to promote the hybrids.

Thank you.

My view is that the Zephyrs are not truly made to be played, bought, or even really produced – never were and never will be. Their purpose is to sit there in the catalog and look amazing, promoting the SD company in general – "Wow! Look what SD has done!" – and perhaps occasionally be sold to some star or trust fund baby who wants the exclusivity alone, and who will no doubt rave about them.

It's basically the same deal as that jumbo-sized pickup. An "oddity" designed only to attract attention. It's like a gold-plated Cadillac or a pizza as big as a city block. Sure; the pizza eats and the Caddy drives (probably even has less wind resistance), but they're really made just as a publicity stunt. Only a ****ing moron, a self promoter, or a person with too much money for their own good actually buys them. If they are so goddamned great as musical tools, why hasn't every truly big-time professional musician switched over?

So there's really nothing much to be said about them, other than to make fun of any idiot and ass hole who actually buys them. As far as what SD should do with them, I also vote for discontinuation. Having them in the catalog make SD look like wannabe upper-class twits, at a time in music culture and the socio-economic timeline when SD really should to be playing to the "down home" aspects of their business.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

what kind of magnet and gauge wire is used in the Zephyrs? What I don't completely get is what its true identity is. Is it a 1080p version of an already existing pup, or is it its own creation...I wondered if using these [aforementioned] tools would bring down its range/db to the range of a copper PU. Maybe Frank knows...

I would not expect anyone to tell you the wire gauge or insulation. That should be proprietary information. The magnets are all Alnico V, that has been disclosed. Whichever existing copper models they are most similar to is not really relevant because the experience is not the same. Like, pretend someone said "here, this is a Zephyr-ized 59 neck" and you said "no thanks, I think 59 necks are too muddy and boomy in the low end." Well, you'd be wrong about the Zephyr-ized 59.

Regarding other add-ons, the Zephyrs start out more efficient, so the differences should be noticed elsewhere down the food chain as well. Anything that loads a pickup (very low value pots, blackouts preamp, some fuzz circuits, etc) reduce the resonant peak. Some would consider that "losing some of the pickup's character" so perhaps that diminishes the qualities. The Zephyrs are also single conductor but if they were ordered 4C then split and parallel would still be "better" by the same margin you considered the series HB to be better.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

All of the sound clips could stand to be updated.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

The only thing hairbrained was leaving my wallet in my back pocket for that video. Sheesh it looks like I have a butt tumor.

All I can say is everyone who plays them "gets it" immediately. If I could afford a set I'd have one of each.

d00d! What did you HAVE in that wallet:?::scratchch :saeek:

 

[jumble jumble]

Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

Enough cash for a set of Zefs I guess.


Sent from one of my four iPads

 

[Will S-T]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

I think a demo could be made using three
identical telegibs.

1 - shop floor JB / Jazz
2 - aged set of above
3 - Zefs

done as per the SD sound clips at least,
maybe a few more genres thrown in.
Would need to be filmed live with the
player swapping guitars for every lick
and throw in some real observations.

The cost of producing Zephyr pickup will never
become more affordable due to the cost of the
materials and therefore never scale down to the
common folk as other technologies do over time.

I'm sure there is "something" about the Zephyrs
but I doubt I'll get the chance to see, play or even own a set.

SD should really listen to Crusty's and others suggestions
in offering the "hybrids" as shop floor items.

The hot rodder's product further rodded by a discerning
and knowledgeable customer base = super kool product.

 

[0v3nm4n]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

I would not expect anyone to tell you the wire gauge or insulation. That should be proprietary information. The magnets are all Alnico V, that has been disclosed. Whichever existing copper models they are most similar to is not really relevant because the experience is not the same. Like, pretend someone said "here, this is a Zephyr-ized 59 neck" and you said "no thanks, I think 59 necks are too muddy and boomy in the low end." Well, you'd be wrong about the Zephyr-ized 59.

Regarding other add-ons, the Zephyrs start out more efficient, so the differences should be noticed elsewhere down the food chain as well. Anything that loads a pickup (very low value pots, blackouts preamp, some fuzz circuits, etc) reduce the resonant peak. Some would consider that "losing some of the pickup's character" so perhaps that diminishes the qualities. The Zephyrs are also single conductor but if they were ordered 4C then split and parallel would still be "better" by the same margin you considered the series HB to be better.

Thanks for the info Frank.

is there any particular reason the Zephyrs don't come in 4C wire unless requested?

can the pole pieces be dyed/plated/whatever in gold?

Can a set be 'calibrated' for a 24 fret 24.75" scale neck?

Thanks

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

Thanks for the info Frank.

is there any particular reason the Zephyrs don't come in 4C wire unless requested?

can the pole pieces be dyed/plated/whatever in gold?

Can a set be 'calibrated' for a 24 fret 24.75" scale neck?

Thanks

What pickup set at all is calibrated for 24 fret 24.75? If you really want to know these answers you can call up the custom shop but I got the feeling your not that serious your just tire kicking.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

Iam a bit late to this party but I will say this I think its a bit of a disservice to call out the company in a thread like this. If your truly interested seek them out. But it seems to me that everyone is just up in arms demanding proof of their value. SD knew going into this that they wouldnt be a everymans pickup they are for a select crowd not sure why this seems to ruffle so many feathers. Also in my opinion and its only my opinion from observing the threads on here about the zephyrs but the way Orpheo comes off a lot times does the damage. The half snarky comments he makes dont help but thats just my opinion.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

Here's the deal and read this carefully people...

There is no delivery format for streaming video via flash or mp4 compression that will be able to properly convey the resolution of the Zephyr.

You would need uncompressed 24bit 192kHz audio performance which is a LOOOOONG ways away from being implemented by any streaming video provider... I am talking YEARS away.

Why in the heck would Seymour Duncan waste their time on a youtube/vimeo/facebook video that has audio fidelity of highly compressed 16bit 44.1kHz?

What makes a Zephyr a Zephyr simply cannot be heard with our current deliverable content providers.

Anyone who continues to complain after reading this post is a truly dedicated whiner.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

How do you figure on 24/192 as the minimum?

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

How do you figure on 24/192 as the minimum?

Well, 24bit/96kHz would work a lot better than 16 bit/44.1kHz but you would want to have the highest resolution possible to keep aliasing to a minimum... oversampling is pretty much the name of the game when you want to work around the capabilities and shortcomings of anti-aliasing filters when recording a super high resolution source.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

But how do you conclude that 24/192 is the minimum required to convey the benefits of the Zephyr pickups? Have you done some kind of threshold analysis with a sample of listeners to determine where they begin to be able to distinguish between similar Zephyr and non-Zephyr models?

And why would we need to stream it? Couldn't it be a downloadable file? After all, it's just marketing materials.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

But how do you conclude that 24/192 is the minimum required to convey the benefits of the Zephyr pickups?

You can use 96Khz to record super high resolution material but you need to OVERSAMPLE in order to avoid aliasing distortion, therefore 192kHz would be even better.

Have you done some kind of threshold analysis with a sample of listeners to determine where they begin to be able to distinguish between similar Zephyr and non-Zephyr models?

No, but I understand the concept of aliasing, digital artifacts, the Nyquist frequency and oversampling so I don't need to do a "threshold analysis". lolz

And why would we need to stream it? Couldn't it be a downloadable file? After all, it's just marketing materials.

If it's a video demo review, it would have to be compressed and streamed unless Seymour Duncan wants to get into the high capacity server business. If it's audio only, the files would be pretty large in WAV format... that would still require SD to get into the server business. It wouldn't be able to be listened to until it downloaded and then you would have the audio demo as property on your computer... streaming allows the provider to retain ownership of their content.

It's not impossible, but I'm sure that they are working on it. Making high quality reviews that do justice to their product is quite difficult and time consuming. I'm sure that they are working on the best way to deliver a decent demo/review for the Zephyrs but we just have to be patient don't we?

I mean, members on this forum had a hard time telling the difference between a Custom (in a Les Paul) and a EVH Wolfgang with their cheap computer speakers... wouldn't we just use those same cheap speakers to listen to a Zephyr demo and then rage at SD because we couldn't hear the difference?

Put yourself in Seymour Duncan's shoes for a minute on this issue and realize that they have several quite tall and imposing hurdles to jump over before they make the zephyr demo/review that it deserves. Be patient.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

No, but I understand the concept of aliasing, digital artifacts, the Nyquist frequency and oversampling so I don't need to do a "threshold analysis". lolz

You missed Quantising Noise . The higher the sampling rate, the greater chance you have of introducing it.

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Petition to remove all Zephyr-related threads until SD produce their own demo/s.

You missed Quantising Noise . The higher the sampling rate, the greater chance you have of introducing it.

That's why we have dithering.