Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

[ambivalence]

hey, guys. my first message here, yay. need your opinions to decide. I wanna upgrade my stock pickups on Ibanez RG350DX, but really don't know all the nuances about electric guitars' stuff. I've played a lot in my life, but it was all-acoustic experience.

All in all, I've decided to give a chance to phat cat on the bridge and seth lover on the neck. The first one is on the table because of its uniqueness, the second one -- because of its brightness (I really don't like distortion stuff and I will play clean in most cases). I've also thought about 59 model to set it in the upper position, but the last opinions I've seen was about its lack of some character, "genericness" so to speak. The "official" soundbites on the SD-website was pretty the same to me, and now I'm about to give Seth Lover a try (I know about wax potting, it shouldn't be a problem).

The question is: what should I consider to set up in the middle as a single coil sized pickup? The site's helper advised me ASP-2: Alnico II Pro Flat Strat, SSL-6: Custom Flat Pro Strat (both rwrp) and SCR-1n in most cases. As I said, I have pretty no experience in this stuff, but I like the last one option best (yep, cool rails). Probably, because I saw good opinions about this pickup on the jazzguitar forums + wanna try ceramic pickups too. I wanna bright sound and kind a versatile guitar to have a variety of soundings, but also don't wanna just mess this up (who knows, I've read somewhere that ceramics should be set only when the other pickups ceramic too, but I don't believe all these rules).

What do you think? In spite of the fact that I'm pretty sure about Phat Cat and Seth Lover, I'd love to hear your guess about them. I've read some topics on this forum, that they're not suitable for each other, but I've also seen some "million post-high-rating guy" here (don't remember nickname, sorry), that he's using the pair right now and pretty amazed by their sound. Probably, I'd get the Phat Cat set, but jazz-guitarists all over the net are saying that it's dark and it needs its magnets to be changed, and I, as a newbie, wanna get them work by stock. Moreover, according to the site, Cool Rails, Phat Cats and Seth Lover have pretty the same DCR and output. Please, save my soul, I'm really tired to watch/read reviews Thanks.

upd, the final results, before/after:

View attachment 88627View attachment 89191

 

[rogue_one]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I would think a Seth bridge and Phat Cat neck would be a better pairing, but that's up to you.

Phat Cats - I have them in My Epiphone Sheraton II and that guitar will never have the pups changed again. Sure it looks all messed up with tarnished, pitted cheap gold hardware and nickel covered Phat Cats, but when I'm playing it, I don't care, the thing sounds like Luciano Pavarotti singing Black Sabbath at a Tokyo karaoke bar (in other words, fantastic). I did install a 50's wiring harness, but did not change the magnets.

Seth Lovers - I have them in my Les Paul. Perfectly clear, and bright, but not harsh. They do it all. I have a 50's wiring harness here too, but am considering a magnet swap to get that extra little push from these pickups. I also have a set of Antiquities coming to me that I am going to try as well. They are going to have to be that perfect tone in my head to beat out the SLs, though. The SLs are so very close, but not quite there.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Remove the covers from those Seth’s. You’ll get that extra push. No need to mess with the magnets.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

the thing sounds like Luciano Pavarotti singing Black Sabbath at a Tokyo karaoke bar (in other words, fantastic).

nice one why do you think phat cats on the neck will work better? wouldn't it be better then to pair it with another cat in the bridge instead of seth lover? by the way, I'd prefer to stay away from these already invented/crafted sets, even by SD, because it just seems not quite interesting to me. I love experiments, and If I'm about to spend 250$ I wanna buy /experience/, not just pickups. Probably, I'd get seth bridge w/ phat neck, but I've heard that the neck cat is too dark for its purpose. How bright is it comparing with seth lover's neck, could you tell me please?

Would you pair Antiquities with phat cats in some way?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

i used to run an phat cat bridge with a antiquity neck and it was pretty tasty. the seth, especially without a cover, is probably a good match and would be a good sounding set

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Even though I'm still interested in these seth/cats discussions, please, guys, what I really need is to choose the middle one. What do you think about those three pups I've mentioned, for example? How will they perform in split positions with seth lover or phat cat (bridge or neck -- it's irrelevant here, I guess)?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

the aps2 or ssl2 will be lower output than the other two by a fair amount, the ssl2 being brighter and spankier. the aps2 is still very vintagy but with softer edges and a bit more mid push. if you are using 500k pots, these wouldnt be something id recommend since they could be strident and shrill.

the ssl6 will match up output wise and sound good tonally if you are using 500k pots, so will the cool rails. do you want a muscular single coil tone or a bright clear humbucker tone? both are great pups.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

All in all, I've decided to give a chance to phat cat on the bridge and seth lover on the neck. The first one is on the table because of its uniqueness, the second one -- because of its brightness
wanna try ceramic pickups too. I wanna bright sound and kind a versatile guitar to have a variety of soundings, but also don't wanna just mess this up (who knows, I've read somewhere that ceramics should be set only when the other pickups ceramic too, but I don't believe all these rules).

[I'd get the Phat Cat set, but jazz-guitarists all over the net are saying that it's dark and it needs its magnets to be changed, and I, as a newbie, wanna get them work by stock. Moreover, according to the site, Cool Rails, Phat Cats and Seth Lover have pretty the same DCR and output. Please, save my soul, I'm really tired to watch/read reviews Thanks.

I'm a big Seth fan, great PAF, and they're not bright. Strange choice for an RG.

As someone who's owned some Phat Cat sets, I was very disappointed in how they both sounded with the stock A2 magnets. The neck is wound pretty hot and is very dark, almost no treble; sounded like a blanket was over the speaker, and it overpowered the weak bridge. I pulled all of the A2's out and gave them away to forum members. I don't know what the goal was with designing these, but neither bridge or neck sound anything like a P-90, which is what I was expecting, as are most people that buy them. If you want to 'get this right' the first time don't get a Phat Cat unless you're willing to change magnets in it if need be.

Being a classic rock/blues player I am anti-ceramics. They sound harsh & brittle to me. Matching a ceramic PU with a Seth and Phat Cat seems like a formula for regret.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board. Don't make up your mind too early in the process, or be too attracted to quirky match ups, as they're how you wind up spending hundreds of dollars and don't like your tones.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Thanks for your answers, guys. I was expecting to see such a polarity.

Strange choice for an RG.

What is the special thing about RG? Could you tell me what would be your choice for the neck then? I know, it's all about tastes, but?.. I've listened some soundbites of Jazz model, and it was chill and soulless to me, then I found a good comparing between Jazz and 59' model -- and the second one was a lot better now: a bit more bass I guess, less glassy. But then I've found Seth Lover and it's sound reminded me 59, but with a little bit more character, still accurate and clean. Probably, I'm wrong here, but this is how I've decided that it would be a good choice for neck, able to be well articulated, but still warm a bit. [my newbie opinion]

As far as about phat cat, it's just what I've read recently: it's just too dark. That's why my thought was: "well, I may put this single coil in the bridge position, at least just to play with it in splits, making the sound more interesting". Maybe later with some experience gained I'll level-up its magnet, but until then it could just stay here making the guitar more interesting and versatile. However, if you could recommend some other P90 for this purpose, I'd love to know the better options.

One of the main reasons why all these pups mentioned here is the SD recommendation system. I've picked "jazz" as my main genre and played with the main purpose filed like "versatility", "fattier sound", "more harmonics". Phat Cats were mentioned as a bridge pickup along with jazz pickup on the neck (one more reason I've decided that I can switch it in favor of seth lover, because I found jazz/59/seth pups close to each other in /some/ ways). The middle one was either ASP-2 or SSL-6, don't remember.

the ssl6 will match up output wise and sound good tonally if you are using 500k pots, so will the cool rails.

It's 500k pots in the guitar, so I guess I should choose between these two. Probably, I'll think twice about it, because it seems like no one supports the idea to put cool rails in the middle, between vintage-styled pups. Or, speaking about cats and seths, would you recommend to change 500k to 250k?

do you want a muscular single coil tone or a bright clear humbucker tone? both are great pups.

Probably, I'd like to get the cool rails' brightness, but it depends on seth lover on the neck. Will it be able to give really bright sound? According to blueman355, it won't. So, may be cool rails will provide it in split with Seth Lover? I don't know, is it a wise thing to do or something opposite. Another reason I was thinking about Cool Rails is its different EQ: it seemed me an option to make the sound more versatile in different positions too (neck has highs, mid has mids, bridge is somewhat even + splits). I'd like to see some comment on this approach too, because if its silly, I'll change the way I see it from now on.

If it's not the way to get a bright sound when it needed or if seth lover would be okay by itself (cats could be brighten by seth), then I'll get SSL-6.

Thanks again. You really help a lot.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Seth, Ssl6, Phat Cat could be $$. The Phat Cat doesn't split tho, it is a single coil.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

There's things you may be relying on that we don't use. Keep in mind that with sound clips you are highly unlikely to have the same guitar, amp, tubes, speakers, pedals, etc used in the clip, and most likely won't be able to get those tones yourself. Also, probably none of us use the SD PU recommendation guide, as there's recommendations we don't agree with. A lot of us disagree with the EQ ratings on PU's too, and one reason is that EQ partially depends on amps/tubes/speakers, and also because one EQ rating usually can't apply to both bridge and neck PU's of the same model. But customers like to see those things and Duncan obliges.

You can plan this all out, and then find your guitar's wood is different than expected, and you don't get the tones you wanted. Happens all the time. No two pieces of wood are identical, even from the same tree, due to differences grain, water content, mineral content, the amount of compression from whether the wood came from lower of higher on the tree, etc. What we learn here is what else we can do to get the tones we want. We learn to select PU's that are in the ball park for what we want, and then may have to change set up, magnets, or pots/caps, or add resistors to get the tone dialed in. Listen to a clip of a JB in a Strat, and put one in an LP, and it's not going to sound the same, all the moreso if the clip used a Fender amp & you have a Marshall. A lot of variables involved, even your cord type and length. The pursuit of tone becomes an art. If you come here with an open mind, we're here to share what we've learned over the years thru trial and error.

For a truer P-90 sound, GFS Mean 90's are popular here. They're great in the neck slot with a humbucker in the bridge. As far as Jazz/'59/Seth go, they have little in common. Jazz, tend to be bright and clear, without much character, which makes them good with a lot of distortion. '59's have a little more flavor, and can have a lot of low end in some guitars. Seth's have a warmer, richer texture and are lower output, one of the great PAF's. I wouldn't consider any of these interchangeable with each other.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Thanks. I think, I'll give a shot trying Phat Cat + Seth Lover. However, could you comment on the possible second position: Seth Lover + Cool Rails? Will CR provide its brightness, will it make the sound more articulate, if I need it? As I've said, I don't like "Jazz" model's coldness and prefer something a bit more warm and "texturish" like Seth Lover, but I need a clarity too. I've seen a lot of comments on the net, that CR and SL are perfect for jazz, as well as '59. What do you think? What fill fit best for cleans: SSL-6 or Cool Rails? It would be great if you guys give some description of their sound, comparing to each other (although I know, that they are too different; SC and SC-sized ceramic HB).

Also, I'll keep in mind that Phat Cat with some other magnet will probably work better.

ps.
Do you think Ibanez RG350DX worth upgrade?

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

STK-S7 but I prefer the sound and feel of the Virtual Vintage 54 Pro for what you're asking.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Do you think Ibanez RG350DX worth upgrade?

It better play nice, because just about everything else with that guitar is working against you.

In basswood with a floating trem and a 24 fret wizard neck, I'd suggest something completely different which would almost certainly offend some of the more thin-skinned members.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Thanks for your answer. Could you comment on STK-S7 vs SSL-6?

I saw some opinions that basswood guitars have a lot of mids. Wouldn't the discussed set be too much for it?

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

By the way, do you, guys, have some link to hear the cats vs mean90 face to face?

 

[elelpe]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Phat Cat

Mean 90

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

hmm, both sounds pretty close to each other, although PC is muddy here indeed.

Is it possible to mod the guitar to handle HHH without much harm? Is there something I should know before doing it? It's already has 5-way switch; I could just make a bigger hole for HB instead of SC. I think it would be interesting to get Phat Cat (neck) in the middle with Seth Lover set on the sides (or... seth Lover neck with something else in the bridge).

Still interested in STK-S7 vs SSL-6 though.

I did install a 50's wiring harness, but did not change the magnets.

What is 50's wiring?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I have a Seth in the neck with a Phat Cat bridge in the middle and a JB in the bridge and it's $$$$$$$. I don't know how easy it would be to mod your particular guitar, but I can't say enough good things about that set up.

 

[elelpe]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Phat Cat is anything but muddy in long scale 24 fretter.