Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Already ordering it. It will be here in 2 days, with a push-pull pot (choosing one).

I think that's a good choice.

You can use those two switches to do all sorts of thing if you want to experiment, but again, I think those 6 options are the ones I'd use with those pickups.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

upd:
just found this thing: Fender S-1 Switch, which could save the pickguard from additional holes. Trying to find it localy. Going to get one, if it fits standard 6mm knobs and not overpriced.

I think they're overpriced, but that or a push-pull or push-push will work just fine. None will require drilling a new hole. You might have to widen an existing hole if it's smaller than 3/8" in diameter, however. This will likely be the case for the S-1, although a push-pull/push-push can easily be 3/8" as well (Bourns as an example).

Thanks for your help and for the scheme too. It makes this all a lot easier.

You're entirely welcome.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I love the function of the S1 switch- I use one on my Music Man to split both humbuckers. But I agree it is overpriced. But hey, since Fender is the only game in town for it, they can charge what they want, I guess.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

An S-1 is not required to toggle between bridge+neck and middle only in position 3 (nor to split two humbuckers, for that matter). People might prefer the aesthetics, but let's not confuse it for function in these two scenarios.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Just figured out that S-1 is usable only with a special kind of the original knobs and they don't fit aesthetically, so I'll stay with a simple push-pull pot.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I love the function of the S1 switch- I use one on my Music Man to split both humbuckers. But I agree it is overpriced. But hey, since Fender is the only game in town for it, they can charge what they want, I guess.

I think that the S-1 switch is pretty cool too, but WAY overpriced. I could not bring myself to use one personally, even if I felt like spending the money on it, just because the knobs are Strat knobs… quite frankly the ugliest guitar knobs ever devised!

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Actually, there is a tele knob for S-1 and it's chrome. But it's about 15$ for 1 piece + S-1 itself.

I'd use a 5-way and put a push/pull pot in place of one of the existing controls (either volume or tone).

The push-pull is part of the control. You give up nothing.

Just to doublecheck. Will I really have both tone and volume controllers according to your scheme, gregory? For a moment I thought I'm gonna place a new push-pull pot.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Yes you will really have a tone and a volume control.

Please look at the link I gave you earlier:
https://www.fralinpickups.com/2017/03/29/push-pull-pots-mods/

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I'll keep waiting for the scheme then :3 As far as I understand the material from the link, push-pull pot allows a similiar functional to S-1.

Meanwhile, I've got the trem. The default one, Edge III, was actually the first thing I should replace.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Updated pinout:

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Thanks a lot. I'll show it to a technician who is gonna help me with it. Could you tell what are the other positions which are possible to make, but pointless to your opinion. As I said, I don't understand all the kitchen, but there's always some starting point. Is it possible, for example, to split the Neck, Seth Lover? If so, have you tried it?

Also, could you recommend a push-pull pot (brand or exact model, linear/logarithmic) or they're the same?

Will Gotoh's VLX91 work as well as Fender's Super Switch?

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

It's possible to split the neck, but it's going to sound thin and weak in that floyded 24-fret basswood guitar with a thin bolt-on neck. The position of the coil that's normally used is almost where a middle pickup would be on a Strat. If it were a Pearly Gates, I'd say rotate it so the slug coil was closest to the neck.

...then again some guys think thin and weak is a great go-to tone.

As far as other wiring options go, I haven't really considered your situation before and to be honest it isn't anything I would spend time thinking about: Phat Cats and Seths aren't my thing. If it were HSS or HSH with hotter pickups that would be another story. Anything I threw at you would be motivated by combinations that were (at least partially) hum-cancelling.

Anyway, tell me what you would like and how you want to access it through switches and we can work from there.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Regarding your other questions, the VLX91 is equivalent to a Fender 5WSS. I had no luck finding one at a reasonable price when looking for you yesterday.

500k audio taper is what I'd go for. I'd probably make the tone control the one that does the switching to get it out of the way. I'd use the stock 500k audio taper volume control. If the guitar is too bright you can change the volume out for a 250k. If you want a large jump in volume at the lower end of the volume pot in order to have finer control at the top end of the pot then you can use a linear taper.

I don't have a preference for pots. Make sure you get one that is metric and will fit. I've found that the quality control on Chinese switches isn't very good. I've found some that crackle a bit. I normally buy a bunch of cheap pots to figure out what I like and then spend a bit more on better pots once I've identified what I need. I still won't spend a fortune on sealed pots or those branded as Company X which is made at the same factory as a cheaper pot branded as Company Y.

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

I didn't want to bother you this much, sorry. Just thought that it would be interesting to know what else could you make with it – at least, theoretically. Those 6 positions – this is what I want, nothing more.

So, is it alright to get that PVLX91, will your wiring fit it? It costs a bit less plus there is a notion in the Fender's Super Switch description that its screw holes don't fit Asian guitars.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

That switch will work just fine. I only have one Ibanez with an aftermarket 5-way that's the standard Fender/Oak Grigsby and had no issues with it fitting. Your mileage may vary.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Back on the subject of further tweaks, you might like to add a second tone control or perhaps change the loading depending on the position. For example, the combination of two pickups might be too bright relative to a position where only one pickup is active. My main concern would be the bridge+middle combination. On a Les Paul when both pickups are selected, the load is half what it would be on your guitar.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

BTW, I updated the pinout diagram.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...t-Seth-Lover&p=4201698&viewfull=1#post4201698

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Back on the subject of further tweaks, you might like to add a second tone control or perhaps change the loading depending on the position.

If I get the plan right, I'll have a spare pot anyway – it's just a matter of the additional pickguard hole. The linear push-pull one will exchange the tone, so the default one could be used for the purpose you suggest. I've also heard that Phat Cats could be too bright for someone (and it's strange because I've also heard the exact opposite of it). So, what should it control?

If there was no misunderstanding by my side and I really could use the spare control here, could you update the scheme for it? Thanks.

ps.
Is it right that the middle position between phat cats is a humbucker made out of two single-coil pickups? And, if the 2nd position is a mix-up of seth lover and middle phat cat, is it possible to make a position where seth lover is mixed with the already humbucked cat? Sorry if it's a nonsense.
Also, if those two work indeed like a humbucker, is it possible to get them mixed without hum-calcelling – just bridge and middle sound on their own?

 

[ambivalence]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

Got the sweets today. The only things left are push-pull with gotoh's 5WS.

 

[gregory]

Re: Phat Cat + ? + Seth Lover

If I get the plan right, I'll have a spare pot anyway – it's just a matter of the additional pickguard hole. The linear push-pull one will exchange the tone, so the default one could be used for the purpose you suggest. I've also heard that Phat Cats could be too bright for someone (and it's strange because I've also heard the exact opposite of it). So, what should it control?

I would just use the master volume/master tone for a while. You'll get a better idea about what you would to change, if anything, that way.

ps.
Is it right that the middle position between phat cats is a humbucker made out of two single-coil pickups? And, if the 2nd position is a mix-up of seth lover and middle phat cat, is it possible to make a position where seth lover is mixed with the already humbucked cat? Sorry if it's a nonsense.
Also, if those two work indeed like a humbucker, is it possible to get them mixed without hum-calcelling – just bridge and middle sound on their own?

I'm not sure I completely follow. Position 2 puts the bridge and middle together in parallel and that will be hum cancelling if one of the Phat Cats is reverse wound, reverse polarity relative to the other. Typical humbucker wiring is putting both coils in series. You could do that with the Phat Cats. You can add the Seth to that combination as well. As for whether you like it, you won't know until you try.