Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
I've seen/heard it. Seems almost perfect. But $$$.
I've seen/heard it. Seems almost perfect. But $$$.
Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
- Thread starter ruger9
- Start date
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Did you see the quote in the OP from Premier Guitar? They said the Phat Cat would be well suited to a dark guitar. Which is the main reason I'm trying it out.
Did you see the quote in the OP from Premier Guitar? They said the Phat Cat would be well suited to a dark guitar. Which is the main reason I'm trying it out.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
The bridge is fairly bright. I read that review too, and figured that the reviewer never actually played the neck model, as it's the opposite of my experience with the ones I've had. Or maybe it was a typo and he meant to say 'bright guitar.' A2's are the darkest-toned alnico magnet (lots of mids, not much treble), and need low winds to keep treble. A2's also have the loosest low end of any magnet. The upside is that they have a lot of texture and character. Zhang is a highly-respected PU winder and member here; he makes some great PU's. He's said that at 7K, the A2's work well in Phat Cat necks, but that at 8K, they can be pretty dark in a warm guitar. Not being a winder, my solution was to change the magnets in all of my Phat Cats, putting brighter ones in the neck: A5, A4, and A3. That gives them a lot more high end and clarity, which is what I want in a neck PU. I realize not everyone wants that. If you're one of those guys that like a warm, fat neck PU, then you'll like a Phat Cat and PGN's.
You're looking for a bright, clear, and low wind PU? Hey, 3 guys here (besides me) have already said on the first page that there's better choices for what you want than Phat Cats, and 2 more have said they're not particularly bright, so it's far from being just me.
The bridge is fairly bright. I read that review too, and figured that the reviewer never actually played the neck model, as it's the opposite of my experience with the ones I've had. Or maybe it was a typo and he meant to say 'bright guitar.' A2's are the darkest-toned alnico magnet (lots of mids, not much treble), and need low winds to keep treble. A2's also have the loosest low end of any magnet. The upside is that they have a lot of texture and character. Zhang is a highly-respected PU winder and member here; he makes some great PU's. He's said that at 7K, the A2's work well in Phat Cat necks, but that at 8K, they can be pretty dark in a warm guitar. Not being a winder, my solution was to change the magnets in all of my Phat Cats, putting brighter ones in the neck: A5, A4, and A3. That gives them a lot more high end and clarity, which is what I want in a neck PU. I realize not everyone wants that. If you're one of those guys that like a warm, fat neck PU, then you'll like a Phat Cat and PGN's.
You're looking for a bright, clear, and low wind PU? Hey, 3 guys here (besides me) have already said on the first page that there's better choices for what you want than Phat Cats, and 2 more have said they're not particularly bright, so it's far from being just me.
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Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
I've had a Phat Cat neck in a mahogany strat that is just beautiful. I did change the mags to an A3/UOA5 combo and it was a slight improvement. But it has the exact sound I was looking for when I got it. A 'fat strat' sound. I'm glad it doesn't sound like a 'real' P90. It's cleaner and chimier but can still kick an amp input in the azz.
I've had a Phat Cat neck in a mahogany strat that is just beautiful. I did change the mags to an A3/UOA5 combo and it was a slight improvement. But it has the exact sound I was looking for when I got it. A 'fat strat' sound. I'm glad it doesn't sound like a 'real' P90. It's cleaner and chimier but can still kick an amp input in the azz.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
The mag swap you did added some high-end (both of those mag have more treble than A2's), which offset the warmth of the mahogany body. For 'chime' I had an A5/A3 pair in a neck Phat Cat in an SG, and it was definitely bright, clean, & chimey.
That's why I have a bunch of Phat CatN's, as I like them much better with different magnets. I've long advocated Duncan adding more Phat Cat models, like one with A5's for guys expecting the traditional bright P-90 sound. One with A4's would be nice too. Maybe A3's.
The mag swap you did added some high-end (both of those mag have more treble than A2's), which offset the warmth of the mahogany body. For 'chime' I had an A5/A3 pair in a neck Phat Cat in an SG, and it was definitely bright, clean, & chimey.
That's why I have a bunch of Phat CatN's, as I like them much better with different magnets. I've long advocated Duncan adding more Phat Cat models, like one with A5's for guys expecting the traditional bright P-90 sound. One with A4's would be nice too. Maybe A3's.
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
After reading more forum reccs (I asked in 2 other forums: Gear Page and Jazz Guitar), and doing some more reading, while I have a Phat Cat on the way, I have narrowed it down to these:
Fralin Twangbanger "clearer than P-92, sounds like Alnico V rods" (which is like a staple or dearmond). Gold covers!
Vintage Vibe H-CC (I would call Pete for a custom low wind, maybe even show him the video above)... they are black, but if pete can do cream trim, that would work with my guitar aesthetic.
Surf 90s -they are so cheap, and people do seem to like them, maybe worth a shot... the Mean90s would sound really good in a solidbody, that are just too beefy and fat for this hollowbody (in the neck anyway, the bridge is great)
I've also ruled out a few due to cost or other reasons:
SD custom shop staples (horrendous recent experience with the custom shop),
Bare Knuckle Manhattan (man that one sounds awesome but $$$),
Humbucker From Hell (I want a tradtional gold cover, but the description of "almost single coil" sounds alot like what I'm after),
Bill Lawrence L609- they don't do gold, apparently. Pickups are black. Not going to work for me.
After reading more forum reccs (I asked in 2 other forums: Gear Page and Jazz Guitar), and doing some more reading, while I have a Phat Cat on the way, I have narrowed it down to these:
Fralin Twangbanger "clearer than P-92, sounds like Alnico V rods" (which is like a staple or dearmond). Gold covers!
Vintage Vibe H-CC (I would call Pete for a custom low wind, maybe even show him the video above)... they are black, but if pete can do cream trim, that would work with my guitar aesthetic.
Surf 90s -they are so cheap, and people do seem to like them, maybe worth a shot... the Mean90s would sound really good in a solidbody, that are just too beefy and fat for this hollowbody (in the neck anyway, the bridge is great)
I've also ruled out a few due to cost or other reasons:
SD custom shop staples (horrendous recent experience with the custom shop),
Bare Knuckle Manhattan (man that one sounds awesome but $$$),
Humbucker From Hell (I want a tradtional gold cover, but the description of "almost single coil" sounds alot like what I'm after),
Bill Lawrence L609- they don't do gold, apparently. Pickups are black. Not going to work for me.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
These are a bright, clear, low wind PU. Have you looked at used PU's online? Sometimes they go for half price. Also, you can replace covers and pole pieces if you want to go from nickel to gold.
These are a bright, clear, low wind PU. Have you looked at used PU's online? Sometimes they go for half price. Also, you can replace covers and pole pieces if you want to go from nickel to gold.
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
I installed a Phat Cat in the neck of the Tele in my avatar that was wound to 7.2k and had an A2/A5 magnet combo. Combined with the Tele bridge pickup either in series or parallel the sounds were incredible. As a stand alone pickup in the neck slot I would define it as mellow and refined rather than dark. To me it was a smokin' tone into a driven amp, but somewhat uninspiring clean. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that it may be due to some attenuation of treble due to the cover. I will glady purchase another one if the right guitar comes along, but will have it wound to maybe 6.8 and use two A5s.
Like an earlier poster said, though, the Phat Staple will get you much closer to the sound in that video ... pure and bell-like.
I installed a Phat Cat in the neck of the Tele in my avatar that was wound to 7.2k and had an A2/A5 magnet combo. Combined with the Tele bridge pickup either in series or parallel the sounds were incredible. As a stand alone pickup in the neck slot I would define it as mellow and refined rather than dark. To me it was a smokin' tone into a driven amp, but somewhat uninspiring clean. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that it may be due to some attenuation of treble due to the cover. I will glady purchase another one if the right guitar comes along, but will have it wound to maybe 6.8 and use two A5s.
Like an earlier poster said, though, the Phat Staple will get you much closer to the sound in that video ... pure and bell-like.
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Well, the HFH doesn't have a cover- the bobbins themselves are gold, somehow. It's quite ugly LOL. I'd have to ADD a cover... before I try something like that, I'm much more likely to just buy a Twangmaster, which is a "split single", supposedly very clear, and even tho they didn't compare them to staples directly, their description sure sounds like it:
The "Twangmaster" (has non-adjustable pole pieces) is even clearer with the sound you would expect from ALNICO V rods.
Well, the HFH doesn't have a cover- the bobbins themselves are gold, somehow. It's quite ugly LOL. I'd have to ADD a cover... before I try something like that, I'm much more likely to just buy a Twangmaster, which is a "split single", supposedly very clear, and even tho they didn't compare them to staples directly, their description sure sounds like it:
The "Twangmaster" (has non-adjustable pole pieces) is even clearer with the sound you would expect from ALNICO V rods.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
- A neck Phat Cat neck wound to around 7K would be great! That would really open it up.
- I have a couple Duncan Staples, neck model, and they are incredibly bright and clear. Besides the price, the other drawback to them is that they require a very deep slot to fit. Part of the cost and height issues is that each magnet (there's 6) is adjustable for height, which I think is totally unnecessary. Just overly complicates things, raises the price, which in turns hurts sales. They need a more affordable version for the average player.
- A neck Phat Cat neck wound to around 7K would be great! That would really open it up.
- I have a couple Duncan Staples, neck model, and they are incredibly bright and clear. Besides the price, the other drawback to them is that they require a very deep slot to fit. Part of the cost and height issues is that each magnet (there's 6) is adjustable for height, which I think is totally unnecessary. Just overly complicates things, raises the price, which in turns hurts sales. They need a more affordable version for the average player.
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Because they are designed to sound like P90s.... so I'm assuming they have all that snotty midrange that traditional P90s have. I'm looking for something lower output/more clear/more scooped. (snotty midrange is great, I love that P90 tone, just not in THIS guitar- a 17" full hollow Epi Broadway, which is a quite warm guitar, so it's needs a really clear/less mids pickup in the neck to balance it out).
Because they are designed to sound like P90s.... so I'm assuming they have all that snotty midrange that traditional P90s have. I'm looking for something lower output/more clear/more scooped. (snotty midrange is great, I love that P90 tone, just not in THIS guitar- a 17" full hollow Epi Broadway, which is a quite warm guitar, so it's needs a really clear/less mids pickup in the neck to balance it out).
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
[keep in mind, these "results" are from THIS GUITAR- a dark sounding, 17" laminated spruce top full hollowbody Epi Broadway]
Phat Cat = FAIL
It honestly doesn't sound much different than the Mean 90. A little more refined maybe, does better at going from "clean to mean" with pick attack, but in this guitar, maybe 10% less dark than the Mean 90. If I wanted that "warm jazz tone" alot of people seek, this would be a nice pickup for it (but then so was the Mean 90).
I think my next stop will be the Fralin Twangmaster, 8000 winds.
[keep in mind, these "results" are from THIS GUITAR- a dark sounding, 17" laminated spruce top full hollowbody Epi Broadway]
Phat Cat = FAIL
It honestly doesn't sound much different than the Mean 90. A little more refined maybe, does better at going from "clean to mean" with pick attack, but in this guitar, maybe 10% less dark than the Mean 90. If I wanted that "warm jazz tone" alot of people seek, this would be a nice pickup for it (but then so was the Mean 90).
I think my next stop will be the Fralin Twangmaster, 8000 winds.
zenmindbeginner
New member
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Phat Cats impart extra richness and girth alongside the crispness. They are humbucker sized P90s with a more hi fi treble and bass.
But what I kept wondering about while reading this thread was why nobody recommended a Benedetto B6 w/coil split.
This video is similar in that it features the acoustic sound of the guitar but you can hear how it is a really scooped hi fi pickup that doesn't impart any extra richness, bass or warmth to the signal. I think it is exactly what you are looking for.
Phat Cats impart extra richness and girth alongside the crispness. They are humbucker sized P90s with a more hi fi treble and bass.
But what I kept wondering about while reading this thread was why nobody recommended a Benedetto B6 w/coil split.
This video is similar in that it features the acoustic sound of the guitar but you can hear how it is a really scooped hi fi pickup that doesn't impart any extra richness, bass or warmth to the signal. I think it is exactly what you are looking for.
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Thanks, will look into it. Being a Benedetto, I'm surprised no one over on the jazz forum mentioned it...
Thanks, will look into it. Being a Benedetto, I'm surprised no one over on the jazz forum mentioned it...
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
That's a good idea! There's PU rings for mini's made to fit a HB slot. Mini's have more treble and clarity than full size HB's. I've got a Firebird with mini's (not FB mini's) and the neck is so clear and articulate.
That's a good idea! There's PU rings for mini's made to fit a HB slot. Mini's have more treble and clarity than full size HB's. I've got a Firebird with mini's (not FB mini's) and the neck is so clear and articulate.
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
I was not aware of this. I'll look around. What I would need are ARCHTOP rings- tall ones, not for a Les Paul type but for an L5 type. Tall, curved bottom, cream, humbucker-to-mini-HB adaptor rings.... a quick google yields no such animal. I'll look deeper tomorrow when I have more time.
I was not aware of this. I'll look around. What I would need are ARCHTOP rings- tall ones, not for a Les Paul type but for an L5 type. Tall, curved bottom, cream, humbucker-to-mini-HB adaptor rings.... a quick google yields no such animal. I'll look deeper tomorrow when I have more time.
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Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Wilde L-600 series??
Wilde L-600 series??
Re: Phat Cats: PG Review "bright and clear" ????
Black only, and the only black pickups I'd be willing to change my guitar's aesthetic (gold cream hardware on natural spruce) for would be Charlie Christians. But the L-609 was recc'd by someone else as well, who actually compared them (said they were very close) to the Vintage Vibe CCs.
No, for single coils a Twangmaster is my next stop, and maybe after that if I'm still not happy, I'll pop for a Manhattan ($OUCH$). But I'm going to search for those mini-HB adaptor rings, if I can find the rings, I can start looking at minis, which would be cool- it'd make make my modern Broadway look like the old Epis
(these are ToneSpectrum pickups, single-coil, also known as "new yorker" pickups, and are the pickup in the video I posted in the OP.)
Black only, and the only black pickups I'd be willing to change my guitar's aesthetic (gold cream hardware on natural spruce) for would be Charlie Christians. But the L-609 was recc'd by someone else as well, who actually compared them (said they were very close) to the Vintage Vibe CCs.
No, for single coils a Twangmaster is my next stop, and maybe after that if I'm still not happy, I'll pop for a Manhattan ($OUCH$). But I'm going to search for those mini-HB adaptor rings, if I can find the rings, I can start looking at minis, which would be cool- it'd make make my modern Broadway look like the old Epis
(these are ToneSpectrum pickups, single-coil, also known as "new yorker" pickups, and are the pickup in the video I posted in the OP.)
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