Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

[tgv1975]

I own a Schecter C-1 Classic guitar, which has a maple (with walnut stripes) neck-through construction. I have written about it here a few times, last time in this topic, where in the OP you'll find all the details about it and about my gripes with it (please read there).

Since then, I've swapped the Jazz/JB with a Tonerider Alnico IV Classic AC4 set, which are significantly cheaper than Duncans, but I wanted to get an idea about lower output pickups, with a less strong magnet (Alnico 4). In short, I'm still not happy: although these are really good pickups (possibly on par with the Duncans, in the right guitar), they are not well-suited to my Schecter. Being voiced for Les Paul-type guitars, they have an extremely pronounced high end which is hard to tame. On the positive side, their bass is much tighter and controlled than the Jazz/JB, hence solving my original problem (while creating others). On the negative side, again, the split modes are quite weak and thin for my taste, and they lack in the mids department; also, I'm not sure if I need to go lower or higher in magnetic strength - never tried Alnico 2s, but I like the Custom (ceramic) better than the JB in this guitar. My (very unscientific) comparison here:
https://soundcloud.com/sunamumaya/sets/seymour-duncan-jb-vs-custom-sh

I have come to terms that I need to look for pickups for a maple guitar - with the neck through construction the wings have more or less no effect on the tone, according to my research.

Acoustically, the guitar has a pronounced high end (painfully confirmed by plugging in), somewhat lacks presence/body (I would assume lacks mids), has a moderate bass resonance that tends to be loose, even acoustically. Plugged in, it really compresses sound, I always need to lower the pickups and re-set or remove altogether the compressors in my chain, lest I get really nasty, pronounced pick attack. Amplified, it is shrill and muddy at the same time with the Jazz/JB, and just shrill with the Toneriders - of course, I deal with it in the rest of the chain, and I get it to sound good, but I find it really, really difficult to find a sweet spot. The bass tends to become really muddy and/or boomy pretty fast.

So, I beg of you, recommend me some pickups (bridge & neck) that:

• would work well in maple, generally
• would tighten the bass!! This is capital! I don't need a lot of bass, but I need it tight, articulate. This is my original and most annoying problem!
• would not be shrill
• would add body/beef to my tone, probably via more mids?
• would split really well (any Alnico 2s out there that split really great?)
• comes in the gold cover variety (yes, just to make matters worse )

I prefer Duncans, but recommend me anything, really. I'm about to have it with this instrument. I love its looks and this is why I'll probably never sell it, but I want to play it, too, not just hang it on a wall. I don't consider myself a complete tone noob, but I'm at a loss here. As you'll see from the Souncloud samples, it's not all that bad, apparently, but you know what it's like to not really be 100% where you want to be with your tone and feel of the guitar.

I play all sorts, except extreme metal, so versatility is a must. I'm also a "single coil in the neck" kind of guy, but as much as this says about me, I can't do it on this guitar.

So far, the Screamin' Demon, the Invader, the JB (!!), and Dimarzio Tone Zone keep popping on threads recommending PUs for maple bodies, as far as my research goes. But I'm not sure about my particular situation. And what about the neck?

Awaiting your input.

Many thanks!

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I own a Schecter C-1 Classic guitar, which has a maple (with walnut stripes) neck-through construction. (...) Acoustically, the guitar has a pronounced high end (...) I always need to lower the pickups and re-set or remove altogether the compressors in my chain, lest I get really nasty, pronounced pick attack. (...) Amplified, it is shrill and muddy at the same time with the Jazz/JB (...)

I would totally get a pair of Alnico 2 magnets and stick them into the Custom/Jazz pair and see where it gets me. The Custom Custom (A2) is kind of creamy and will definitely smooth out the pick attack lots. I have a gut feeling your guitar's acoustic tone might be improved by a proper set up. If you want to share your string gauge, tuning, height over the 12th fret's crown and neck relief, go ahead, that might give a bit of a perspective.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I recently threw my Screamin' Demon in my Gibson Explorer and it really evened out the tone of that guitar. I know different guitar and different woods, but my point is, it took a guitar that had an annoying woofy low mid thing that I couldn't get rid of, both with the stock Gibson 500T/496R set, and the Black Winter set I recently purchased. But with the Demon, those low mids are tamed down to the point where they don't annoy me anymore.

Another pickup with a tight low end is the Full shred, but I'm not sure if it would take the edge off of your pick attack, since from what I've dug up in my own research, they are a little brighter than the Screamin' Demon.

ETA: For what it's worth, IIRC, some of George Lynch's ESPs have Maple bodies, and the Demon is one of his signature pups.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

Yeah, but George's guitars are strats, distilled. And he really seems to like a pronounced pick attack. The Full Shred is kind of sharp as well. The soundcloud clips above sound plinky and woofy at the same time. This fat maple plank pushes a bucketload of lows and a peak in the high mids. The CC's full, pronounced and textured midrange with its smooth attack should work very well IMO, as opposed to the FS which will perhaps exaggerate the pick attack and make it overall thinner.

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I would totally get a pair of Alnico 2 magnets and stick them into the Custom/Jazz pair and see where it gets me. The Custom Custom (A2) is kind of creamy and will definitely smooth out the pick attack lots. I have a gut feeling your guitar's acoustic tone might be improved by a proper set up. If you want to share your string gauge, tuning, height over the 12th fret's crown and neck relief, go ahead, that might give a bit of a perspective.

I can't do the magnet swap, too much of a hassle with these covered pickups, unfortunately. The neck is as close to straight as I could get it, it plays very nicely. The action at the 12th fret is 2mm, both treble and bass side. I use a GHS Santana 0.0095, used EB Regular Slinky 0.010 before (same issues).

The soundcloud clips above sound plinky and woofy at the same time.

Yes!! I think you summarized my pain brilliantly.

I'm sure my tone above can be improved still with fine tuning, but it would be tedious work against the stream - as it is now, the guitar doesn't output what I want. The Custom Custom sounds like a great suggestion, but I'm a bit worried about its "spongier bottom-end" - wouldn't that make the bass even more loose? This Schecter is related to a Strat only in that it has a 25.5'' scale, but no floating bridge, no single coils.

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

Please suggest neck pickup, too, I edited the OP to reflect this.

Thanks a lot!

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I can't do the magnet swap, too much of a hassle with these covered pickups, unfortunately.

Oops, my bad.

The neck is as close to straight as I could get it, it plays very nicely. The action at the 12th fret is 2mm, both treble and bass side. I use a GHS Santana 0.0095, used EB Regular Slinky 0.010 before (same issues).

Sounds fine actually. That's a buzz free kind of setup that gets the most low end out of the guitar.

The Custom Custom sounds like a great suggestion, but I'm a bit worried about its "spongier bottom-end" - wouldn't that make the bass even more loose?

For the record, I don't think that your problem is a loose bass. The low end isn't really lagging behind the rest when you hit the string. It's just that there is a lot of it and it keeps sustaining for a long time, whereas in Strats and similar, it appears as a quick burst and no more, so to say.

Now, what I think is the problem, is the spectral balance right between your guitar and the amp. When you pluck a string, your amp gets hit by this sustaining wave of low frequencies, together with a honky burst of upper mids. This creates the woof that won't shut up and the plink plonk that can make a thin, stiff kind of sound perception, so you instinctively dial in more bass and get more woof in return. I think you need more mids for the amp to crunch. That'll give you more "presence" (in the sense of "body", rather than "treble"), too.

The reason I think the CC is so promising, is that it will give you the solid midrange and it will soften the pick attack a lot. And it will give you a smooth top end, cause I could never get enough cut out of it, but remember I am in love with the late 80s hair metal and crave a tone that just about slices you in half, in a pleasant way. And the CC totally should capitalize on the huge natural sustain of your Schecter, for a smooth, singing tone. Don't worry about the often described spongy low end for now, in fact I think it should be just okay, for the CC isn't really huge on the lows, just a bit soft.
When you've got your mids and highs sorted, there are means of tightening the low end specifically, like lowering the pickup a bit and raising the screw polepieces, using a high pass filter, or a thinner or altogether different pick, lowering your strings a bit, dialling it out on the amp. I really don't think you need or even want it EMG-81-tight for what you play.

Now, although I wouldn't consider this a valid argument myself, let me just point it out, that some people have been using their CCs and digging it in their set neck Hamers and even Les Pauls (mainly customs, I think). If it can be tight enough with a one piece mahogany neck and short scale...

This Schecter is related to a Strat only in that it has a 25.5'' scale, but no floating bridge, no single coils.

I know, I've met an example of such a Schecter a couple of years ago. I think it's the fatness of the center section that pumps a lot of low end back and forth.

Neck pickup? what's that? :naughty: Lol, I don't have a clue, honestly. If the CC works out, I'd look for something with similar "creamy and smooth" qualities, so they are a nice match. I'd avoid whatever is bright and scooped. I'm sure someone here can help you with that.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

For what it's worth, IIRC, some of George Lynch's ESPs have Maple bodies, and the Demon is one of his signature pups.

Wouldn't say they are brighter than the Demon as much as they have reduced mids and lows which give that impression. A lot of what the guy was playing when the Demon came out what that alder Skull and Snakes. His maple guitars were more pronounced when he was still playing the DD type of pickups. And then there's the Super V which is an A2. Trying to pin a single piece of gear on anything the guy does is like trying to herd cats.



To the OP, check out the CC. And most any model you want can be ordered with not just a good cover but gold poles too.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I have an RGT42 - a maple/mahogany neck through, with (I believe) basswood wings. I went with a Parallel Axis pair, and have been quite happy with them.

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

After reading through both threads, I have to question why you have not tried any higher output ceramics. If tightening the bass is paramount, the Duncan Distortion will work very well. If you're worried about the high end being harsh, the Full Shred is also fairly tight, but not as aggressive as the Distortion. Both Full Shred and Distortion have neck versions as well. The Duncan Distortion neck (aka Seymourizer) can be used in the bridge position as another ceramic option besides a Custom or a Distortion bridge model.

The other alternative is, aptly, the Alternative 8. The alnico 8 mag should give more tightness than the alnico V mags, more body and low mids, but still have a fairly sweet high end. One of my friends loves his alt 8 in a maple/poplar/rosewood guitar, though I find the upper mids a bit fizzy, though in a different way than the JB. The Distortion, DD neck (seymourizer), and the Alt 8 should all be on your list of pickups to try. Don't be afraid of the fact that they are higher output pickups, they have versatility too.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

Wouldn't say they are brighter than the Demon as much as they have reduced mids and lows which give that impression. A lot of what the guy was playing when the Demon came out what that alder Skull and Snakes. His maple guitars were more pronounced when he was still playing the DD type of pickups. And then there's the Super V which is an A2. Trying to pin a single piece of gear on anything the guy does is like trying to herd cats.



To the OP, check out the CC. And most any model you want can be ordered with not just a good cover but gold poles too.

That's why I said "one" and not "the".

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I use an Alnico II Pro set in an all maple and graphite Steinberger, and it warms up considerably. Personally, using maple for the whole body must be a cost thing, since it sure isn't for tone ( or weight). Any pickups with Alnico 2 magnets are better than 5, or worse, ceramic in maple.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I know this may sound irrelevant but have tried using different picks to sculpt your tone? Different sizes and materials can make huge sound and feel differences along with if the tip is sharp or round. Very cheap way to see if it helps with anything. I recommend Ultex from dunlop for what you say you want from your guitar.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

I use an Alnico II Pro set in an all maple and graphite Steinberger, and it warms up considerably.

Well, if you don't mind, I just want to point out that my original suggestion of fitting the Custom and the Jazz with Alnico 2s would basically get a CC/A2Pro set.

Personally, using maple for the whole body must be a cost thing, since it sure isn't for tone ( or weight). Any pickups with Alnico 2 magnets are better than 5, or worse, ceramic in maple.

However, I don't think that this kind of generalization applies. Firstly, maple is neither lightweight nor soft, which translates to more expensive transport, earlier tool wear or more time-consuming processing, none of which would save a penny.

Then, there's the solid-maple-bodied Hamer Californian, the George Lynch Tiger and Kamikazes, and the BC Rich Kerry King V, none of which I would ever suspect of being designed by accountants or accident. There's lots of maple neck-throughs on the market, many of which do come with edgy pickups, both ceramic and alnico 5 loaded, active as well as passive.

Last but not least, not everybody likes lightweight guitars.

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

Now, what I think is the problem, is the spectral balance right between your guitar and the amp. When you pluck a string, your amp gets hit by this sustaining wave of low frequencies, together with a honky burst of upper mids. This creates the woof that won't shut up and the plink plonk that can make a thin, stiff kind of sound perception, so you instinctively dial in more bass and get more woof in return. I think you need more mids for the amp to crunch. That'll give you more "presence" (in the sense of "body", rather than "treble"), too.

The reason I think the CC is so promising, is that it will give you the solid midrange and it will soften the pick attack a lot.

Now, although I wouldn't consider this a valid argument myself, let me just point it out, that some people have been using their CCs and digging it in their set neck Hamers and even Les Pauls (mainly customs, I think). If it can be tight enough with a one piece mahogany neck and short scale...

Wow, thanks for this surprisingly accurate insight into my tone and ideal tone! You've said it better than I did. So, the Custom Custom should be something to try, definitely.

(apologies for not replying for a long time, been forced offline)

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

After reading your opinions (thank you!) I think I'm going to try the Custom Custom in the bridge (B/M/T = 3/7/7 vs 5/6/8 for the JB), as the last resort for this Schecter. Its lack of bass should do the trick correcting the "boom" and mud on distortion, which is the only thing that I cannot stand with the JB in this guitar - it makes me have to turn up the highs to get clarity in the lower notes, which gets me into shrill territory, or turn down the bass/mids, which gets me into thin territory. The lower highs of the CC should also be a great help.

For the neck, I'm thinking Pearly Gates, based on the specs (B/M/T = 6/5/9 vs 5/3/9 for the Jazz). I'm hoping the more mids will allow for more clarity in my mid-scooped guitar, and also the little more bass will hopefully allow reducing the bass on the amp, thus cutting back on the mud.

What do you think? Please let me know if you think otherwise, I wouldn't want to spend this much for the wrong reasons.

A few more questions, if you please: how do the CC and PG split, generally? I'm very fond of my split/parallel positions, and if they are too weak, that's quite a big minus for me.

Also, regarding the specs, how much is there actual difference (from a purely quantitative point of view) in a difference of 1 in bass, mids, or treble? In other words, is mids 5 significantly different from mids 3, for example?

Many thanks!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

IME working with neck-through instruments, specially those made with different stripes of wood (my Mayones Maestro have a 11-layer core), I got the best results with A2 loaded p'ups.

Depending on what kind of music is for, an APH1N/Custom Custom would be a good, all-around candidate for a 22-fretter, for a 24-fretter, the mags should be changed with UOA5 into both or my "Smooth Vintage Whisperer™" mag combo, A3neck/A2bridge.

HTH,

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

The CC and PG are both Alnico 2, which would be supported by your theory. The APH-1 is too scooped for my guitar, I think, considering my experience with the Jazz.

Thank you!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

The APH-1 is too scooped for my guitar, I think, considering my experience with the Jazz.

The APH-1 is Alnico 2, the Jazz is Alnico 5.

It's impossible for the APH-1 to be "scooped".

Just sayin'... :cool2:

 

[tgv1975]

Re: Pickup Choice for Maple Neck-Through

It's impossible for the APH-1 to be "scooped".

Just sayin'... :cool2:

I was simply considering the B/M/T of 7/4/8 spec, with the mids so low compared to bass and treble. I have no experience with this pickup. How would you say it compares to the Pearly Gates, the purpose being achieving more clarity and tighter bass? My guitar is a 24-fretter.

Many thanks for your suggestions and observations!