Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

[BlueGuitar]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

If God wanted me to wind pickups why did he make my fingers as fat as sausages? :dance:


Here is a link to a pickup makers forum frequented by such wizards as Jason Lollar and Steven Ketterling

http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fireBB.cgi?cfg=gt&forum=pmgd&enter=go

 

[Guest]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Cool link. I used to hear a lot about ampage bt at the that time I wasn't interrested. Glad you reminded me. Whatever happend to the domain, wasn't it ampage?

And walters had to be there from what I can tell...

Should we keep this thread up?

 

[sunnysideup]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

what's differentiate the pickup's EQ? I know magnet is one thing. But I found some pickup use same magnet, but have different EQ.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

I wouldn't be certain, heck I'm getting this info at the same time as you, but it might have to do with the Rev's response to my first set of questions. The wire, the size of the coils... stuff like that.

Bump for Sunny more than anything.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

what's differentiate the pickup's EQ? I know magnet is one thing. But I found some pickup use same magnet, but have different EQ.

true ---

a machine wind will have "less luxury" to the high ends EQ ( ghost bleed thru in the machine wound coil):dance: explaination = the tightly concentric wind allows the signal to sneek into the coil and create "eddies"

A scatter wind will not have these eddies.

a fast scatter will be brighter then a slow scatter.

coil wire coatings will cause bright or dark tone-- the older Strats had double build Fomvar from 54 to 63' the sound was said to be darker at 6k then a enamel coating at 6k

 

[Guest]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

a fast scatter will be brighter then a slow scatter.

What do you mean Rev, that the faster one winds the brighter the pup will be and vice versa? Do you have any explanation for this or is this something that one has to accept?

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Heres a 51 P-Bass single coil -- with my preventive extra tape wrap --

These P-bass pups are normally like a letter "T" and the outside strings will go over the side and snag-- ( same thing that happened to Seymour Duncans Tele when he was just 15 and he wound his broken tele bridge pup back up on that infamous record player)

The bass strings not olny pull the tops off these pups but they also rip loose the bottoms..

BTW. these use 42 awg Enamel coated wire at 7.9K

I use electrician's pressure tape I then fold it down the middle and wrap over the factory "rope wrap" and I build it up till it extends past the bobin's ends-- I then rub crazy glue all over the tape and harden it like a rock- then I sand and polish the bobbin's ends-- so now when that MONSTER string gets depressed over the edge of the pup -- it hits my smooth "rock" and flips right back up into play--

no more snagging under the "T" bobbin and pulling it apart and killing the pup.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

What do you mean Rev, that the faster one winds the brighter the pup will be and vice versa? Do you have any explanation for this or is this something that one has to accept?

side to side traverse -- like when ya wind in a fishing pole.

fast -6-to-7 spins of the pup and you've gone from one side to the other

slow = let the wire almost build over itself as you wind.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Here's a JOE BARDEN STRAT NECK ( E-bay price over 200 each) Joe is Out Of bussiness and his Tele set fetches $700 on ebay today!

These pups get damaged easy -- the tape covering the coils is not very protective -- this one had both coils cut from being damaged right thru the tape! -- be careful with all taped coil pups they do get cut easily.

Not many wind service's will take on the Bardens there all Crazy Glued together -- Acetone -- loosens Crazy glue -- and the intregrity of the design is not the best to work with -- the tiny coil start and finish wire dumps into a tiny hole at the end of each bottom bobbin--
then a pin is pushed over it and solder is used to join it and the lead wire together -- It leaves alot to be desired and faliure rates are high-- and if ya loose that tiny start wire in this risky process -- ya have to rewind the coil all over again!

so many won't rewind em -- I do and I charge $107.00 each

I add things to help strengthing the designs weakness -- I use my Rock Tape trick and i drill and extra hole in the bobbin's and wrap that tiny lead wire around a few more times like on the Strat Bobbin.

 

[Gibsononly]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Insulation thickness is a factor in tone. The thicker the insulation the wider the coil and the more string area it senses.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Insulation thickness is a factor in tone. The thicker the insulation the wider the coil and the more string area it senses.

ok but please explain what way the tone is going to go-- brighter or darker?
less focused or more focused?
more output or less output?

I know the answer's do you?

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

I'm just Drillin' CANADA's Gibsononly -- yoooo hoooo!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Ok, going a bit backwards on the whole process.

How does one wind a pup in a simple manner? I know you can do it by hand but I doubt one will manage to wind consistently so do you have any ideas on a simple winder (I know about the Schatten but if one is to wind his own pups why not go all out DIY and make a simple winder too)?

Right now I'm just using my drill -- though if you use one, make sure it's variable speed, and reversible.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Here are the factors in a pickup's tone (aside from tweaking the poles and pickup height of course), in no particular order:

1) Magnet type

2) Size/shape of coil - Wider coil will pickup more low frequencies because it sees a larger portion of the string and thus sees the longer wavelengths of bass and low mids.

3) Coil wire guage (which will have an effect on the size of the coil, e.g., if you wind two coils to the same DC resistance, but one with #42 and the other with #43 wire, the #43 coil will be brighter because it will significantly smaller/more narrow, less able to pickup the longer wavelengths of lower frequencies coming from the string).

As for whether the guage in and of itself affects tone, I don't know. I don't think so but can't be sure because you're automatically going to get a different width to your coil wound to the same spec with different guage wires, so it would be hard to tell whether the tone difference was due to the guage itself or due to the smaller or larger size of the coil. I think it's the latter but I think the Rev disagrees with me on that.

4) Wind pattern -- a very neat, evenly layered coil (i.e., moving your hand back and forth very slowly and evenly during winding) with very little scatter will sound colder and brighter than a coil wound with more random (scattered) patterns.

 

[Guest]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

I'm just Drillin' CANADA's Gibsononly -- yoooo hoooo!

Sorry Rev. But, since Gibsononly hasn't logged in since he posted last can you tell me, was I right? At least so I know I'm getting it right.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

ok but please explain what way the tone is going to go-- brighter or darker?
less focused or more focused?
more output or less output?

more coating darker-
less output
less focused

 

[Gibsononly]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

Ahhh, you had to say before I had a chance to answer. The internet doesn't work as fast up here because it's colder, so it takes me longer to log on.

But yes, it stands to reason that the wider the coil the more unfocused it becomes, like a p-90. I don't think that this is as noticeable in a handwound because of other effects. I say this because of many opinions of Fralin's humbuckers having a single coil vibe - i.e. more clarity and focus, which is due to handwinding of the coil. By this I mean comparing a machine wound to a hand wound. In the same width coil the hand wound will have more focus because of it's very nature.

I have to agree with Zhang. The more even and close the wind the brighter it will be. I say this because of the shrill top end that can be heard in some machine wound coils.

One of the things that can happen with the smaller gauges of wire is skin effect, which will have an effect on tone, and never for the better.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

readings one thing doing and hearing these things first hand will change your mind on most things ya may have read -- never forget companys protect their intrest in pickups with cover up's and lies and spread false info -- all over town!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

more coating darker-
less output
less focused

That's true as far as it goes -- but pickup makers only use "single build" wire, which means just one layer of insulation, so you're not going to have much variation in the thickness of the insulation.

 

[Rev Donzo]

Re: Pickup Makers Thread - 4 - those who wind or want to know how

double build fomvar -- is vintage correct for 54-63 strats--it only makes it to 6k if your lucky--otherwise the cover will not slide down -over..

i have DBF wire for some rare projects -- they claim its darker--