POD Go CAb sims - I do not like the 4x12 1960 Cab!

[Aceman]

So I was playing around with Cab settings in my POD Go, with a juiced JCM800 (What? Aceman likes the 800 model?!?!?! Shock & Surprise!!!!)

I found a preset wasn't really jelling compared to my others because I had black back 30's as the speakers. So I ended up spending some serious time trying different cabs/speakers.

I still really like the Green 25's. Those are "my" favorites. Black 30's are not bad either. But the GT75's? NOT my deal. Really don't dig the lower treble. Then again, given my ears - maybe I SHOULD use them LOL.

Also noticed that I really liked the Shure 57 1" on the speakers, no matter what model. The Cabs all have a number of parameters and the mic is one of them. Makes sense a ton of the music I love was probably recorded with those mics.

This whole speaker/mic thing is just fascinating. I have to say...for the $500 to $1000 you can spend on the modeler today, well worth the investment just for this knowledge.

 

[Mincer]

Can you add your own IR cabs on that thing?

 

[Aceman]

Yep

Bass cab selection is limited. I'd like a Hartke 4x10 / 1x15 pair. Or at least a 4x10 aluminum.

They do have that big 8 speaker SVT...

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, they recerently revamped their whole stock cab sounds. They sound better, you should've heard the originals, LOL, but I'd still much rather use external IR's. Ownhammer IR's are way more mix-ready.

Cab sims have always been the weak link with every generation of Line 6 modeling, TBH. But they've definitely gotten better with the latest update.

Also, TBH, I don't particularly like 1960 cabs in general. I much prefer the 1960V's and 1960X's. And I find 1960 with the T-75's particularly hard to mic up.

 

[Mononoaware]

Also noticed that I really liked the Shure 57 1" on the speakers, no matter what model. The Cabs all have a number of parameters and the mic is one of them. Makes sense a ton of the music I love was probably recorded with those mics.

Though I've never worked with real mics, an IR with a 57 a bit off the cap is always where I start. Don't know if it's just what my ears are used to hearing in recordings, but it's usually a great, honest, direct sound.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, about 57's, that's probably because of what we're used to hearing to the point that our brains just associate that sound to what recorded guitars are supposed to sound like.

It's funny, though. I used to have two 57's that sounded pretty different from each other. Neither was a fake. Both were newer Mexican-made ones (though one was like 5 years newer than the other). The newer one sounded brighter, tighter, and louder. I preferred using that one. I've read people have similar experiences with different SM57's sounding different.

 

[Aceman]

Still...there are a lot of guitar cabs in the thing, and I am really getting how speakers make a big relative impact.

Now if I can just stop trying to adjust whatever back to my original preferred Ace tone that end up with on whatever I play!

 

[beaubrummels]

I had a similar experience with my Zoom and my Flextronics amp where it took an odd combination of cab/speakers, mic and amp to get what I was really trying to get. Like, the Orange head 'model' through the Mesa rectifier cab 'model' and ribbon mic emulation sounded more like an actual Marshall Superlead with a 1960BX cab than the Marshall SL 'model' with the 4x12 greenback 'model' with an SM57 'emulation'

 

[El Dunco]

Yeah, about 57's, that's probably because of what we're used to hearing to the point that our brains just associate that sound to what recorded guitars are supposed to sound like.

It's funny, though. I used to have two 57's that sounded pretty different from each other. Neither was a fake. Both were newer Mexican-made ones (though one was like 5 years newer than the other). The newer one sounded brighter, tighter, and louder. I preferred using that one. I've read people have similar experiences with different SM57's sounding different.

Just like how two of the exact same speaker model won’t sound identical, considering the diaphragm of a dynamic mic is essentially a little speaker in reverse, the exact same thing applies. If you have a handful of 57s, all bought from the same batch, they will have noticeable idiosyncrasies.

What I don’t quite get is the difference between a “4x12” and 1x12” cab model, when generally a mic’d cab only has one (the best sounding) mic’d up, or is there one mic on each speaker in phase and blended for those models?

One 57 on a speaker has never been enough for me. I dual mic at the very least, blend at least two amps. I usually commit to a blend and sum to mono before recording each cabinet but in any case, it always sounds better and fuller to my ear to have more frequencies captured that I can trim away as the mix requires than building around only a slice of the sound I hear in the room which I’ve already heard too many times.

I know it’s a fools errand to try to 1:1 duplicate exactly what the amp sounds like in the room and not really the point of the role of a guitar in the mix, but even something as simple as one PR30 and e906 together on one speaker gets more than acceptably close to what I like about the sound coming out of my cabinet when I play it back.

 

[Top-L]

What I don’t quite get is the difference between a “4x12” and 1x12” cab model, when generally a mic’d cab only has one (the best sounding) mic’d up, or is there one mic on each speaker in phase and blended for those models?

Its just BS. The different cabinet types are just different EQ settings. Usually the 1x12 and 2x12 have less bass.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

What I don’t quite get is the difference between a “4x12” and 1x12” cab model, when generally a mic’d cab only has one (the best sounding) mic’d up, or is there one mic on each speaker in phase and blended for those models?.

They way the sound bounces inside the cab affects how the speaker's cone is able to bounce back and forth.

Plus you algo gotta consider that a speaker in a 4x12 sees only 1/4 of the power the amp is putting out vs the full power on a 1x12. So you probably get less speaker breakup coloring the sound this way. Or maybe, just coloring it differently. But guitar speakers (particularly something old-school like Greenbacks) don't react to power or volume linearly.

Plus, I really don't fully understand how that functions, but the electrical interaction between speakers in a 4x12 (and with the amp's transformer) makes a difference. There is documentation on how wiring each pair of speakers in a 4x12 in series-parallel vs parallel series changes the sound of the cab, for example.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Its just BS. The different cabinet types are just different EQ settings. Usually the 1x12 and 2x12 have less bass.

Oh, it's just more than EQ settings. I think I addressed most in my last post.

And larger cabs not just have more bass, but more extension on either sides of the EQ curve as well. Given they're both running the same kinds of speakers, of course. Because ohms do make in a difference in sound here as well. Not only in the total load and the interaction with the transformer, but 8 ohm vs 16 ohm variants of the same speaker sound more different that many people realize. After all, the voice coils are wound different.

You don't need to go that far comparing vastly different cabs. A Mesa Recto cab vs a Mesa Traditional cab with the same speakers not only has more low-end extension (rather than *more* low-end, I'd say it just pushes the resonance of the low end lower in the spectrum), it also pushes the high-end sizzle higher up.

I think Nolly (the guy who played bass for Periphery that prodces and mixes bands's albums these days) mentioned somewhere that people often regard the Rectifier cab as sounding huge, yet in his findings, it's actually tighter and more focused because of the fact there is less mud in the low mids. He's a huge Mesa V30 nerd. But I may be paraphrasing a bit, LOL.

 

[Aceman]

Saw my "That's my cab!" cab on Craigslist:

Marshall 1960AX - with 4 Celestion Greenback 25s.

Only $1100...oh wel. <sigh>

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Thoes are fantastic cabs... but the 1960TV's! Yum!

 

[El Dunco]

They way the sound bounces inside the cab affects how the speaker's cone is able to bounce back and forth.

Plus you algo gotta consider that a speaker in a 4x12 sees only 1/4 of the power the amp is putting out vs the full power on a 1x12. So you probably get less speaker breakup coloring the sound this way. Or maybe, just coloring it differently. But guitar speakers (particularly something old-school like Greenbacks) don't react to power or volume linearly.

Plus, I really don't fully understand how that functions, but the electrical interaction between speakers in a 4x12 (and with the amp's transformer) makes a difference. There is documentation on how wiring each pair of speakers in a 4x12 in series-parallel vs parallel series changes the sound of the cab, for example.

That would explain why my favourite speakers sound even better when I moved them out of a 2x12 and into a 4x12 (two GK-75s, my favourite “magic v30 and a latest gen V30s!)