Pots is pots?? (pic)

[Top-L]

Fixed my digital multimeter so I was able to go through my old parts box and look at discarded and leftover parts.

I thought a bunch of these were leftover from my EMG days, but only one of them was a 26K. There was a "250K" Dimarzio pot, and a handful of "500k".

What I was surprised about was the range of values (in pic).

Another thing I remember is that for a long time I thought that large pots "sounded better". Come to find that two of my most used "500K" (large) pots, the ones with the most soldering remnants, were .580 and .609. These were my favorite pots.

None of the mini pots were much above 500K, with a couple considerably lower.

Could I have heard a difference between these pots and the other ones? Is it possible that they "stood out" to my ears, or was I just using them because they were larger? IDK.

Can I use these pots to "tune" the high end of guitars? Are pots that are off spec a good thing to have?

 

[Lewguitar]

Louder and brighter usually translates as "better". At least until your ears get tired of it.

A 600K pot will make your guitar slightly louder and brighter than a 500K pot.

 

[Top-L]

Louder and brighter usually translates as "better". At least until your ears get tired of it.

A 600K pot will make your guitar slightly louder and brighter than a 500K pot.

I have a new guitar with a single 500K (I think) pot which is very aggressive. I've been wondering if I should replace it with a 250K pot so it is more similar to my 500+500 guitars, or... if the new guitar is just brighter and more aggressive.

OTH, I've been reading its possible to add resistance to a pot, so maybe I can just solder a resistor to the 500K to make it darker.

 

[PFDarkside]

609k is 42% higher than 428k, you’d definitely hear a difference if you swapped between them.

 

[Clint 55]

I have a new guitar with a single 500K (I think) pot which is very aggressive. I've been wondering if I should replace it with a 250K pot so it is more similar to my 500+500 guitars, or... if the new guitar is just brighter and more aggressive.

OTH, I've been reading its possible to add resistance to a pot, so maybe I can just solder a resistor to the 500K to make it darker.

Either one will work. It's helpful to tune ur resistance for no tone guitars.

 

[ErikH]

You put a resistor across the outer lugs of a tone pot and get a lower value but with a volume pot it won't work as intended because the volume pot is a voltage divider at that point. A resistor across the outer lugs creates a very weird taper that does not work well.

Most manufactured pots have a standard deviation of 20%. Better ones have 10%. The best ones have 5% or less.

Some humbuckers I like 250K volumes, like the Screamin' Demon. Others I like 500K, like the Jason Becker model and Super Distortion.

 

[Clint 55]

Just put the resistor across the jack.

 

[Top-L]

You put a resistor across the outer lugs of a tone pot and get a lower value but with a volume pot it won't work as intended because the volume pot is a voltage divider at that point. A resistor across the outer lugs creates a very weird taper that does not work well.

Most manufactured pots have a standard deviation of 20%. Better ones have 10%. The best ones have 5% or less.

Some humbuckers I like 250K volumes, like the Screamin' Demon. Others I like 500K, like the Jason Becker model and Super Distortion.

You're right, unless I did it wrong. I tried this on a pot outside the guitar and it didn't work as intended.

 

[Top-L]

Just put the resistor across the jack.

That might be the best way to do it, although I was able to scare up a 250k.

 

[Top-L]

Wow... just wow.

I bought a guitar a few weeks ago that came with a SD Jazz/Custom 5 combo. Which I wasn't happy with. This was also my first guitar without a tone pot.

Over the next couple weeks I tried six different pickups, including some stock pickups, and some magnet swaps. All of them sounded too aggressive or nasally. Even my fallback Evolution was out of sorts. I settled on a D-sonic which is a thick lead guitar pickup.

This guitar is a maple neck, mahogany body and has a bright aggressive tone, I figured it was just a temperamental guitar.

Come to find that it has a 500K volume pot. Reading through threads here, learned that a 500K volume pot alone is like a 1M vol + 1M tone.

Today I swapped it with a 250K volume and it has transformed the guitar. It now sounds similar to my other 500+500k guitars.

I dont know what they were thinking, shipping it with a 500K. Now my faith in Seymour Duncan pickups is restored. They are not "fundamentally different" than Dimarzios, I was auditioning them with the wrong potentiometer. I had no idea that deleting the tone pot would have such an impact on the tone, would cause the guitar to sound so aggressive and bright. Maybe some people like it like that, but I consider the 500K in this guitar just wrong. I can turn up the treble/presence and craft a thick top end that is not too aggro.

I'm not sure if the 250K vol alone is the same as 500+500, but this guitar is now roughly interchangeable with my other guitars. Considering the difference was so much, I think there is alot of value in experimenting with different pots and resistors to find the exact right value. Ive been swapping pickups for 25 years and had no idea.

:wizard:

Looking forward to hearing what the Custom 5 and Jazz sound like with proper potentiometer.

I wasted many days experimenting and swapping pickups because of this. Many hours. I surely won't forget this lesson.

 

[Top-L]

Just put the resistor across the jack.

What do you mean? Between the POS and ground on the jack?

 

[Clint 55]

You don't have to put the resistor across the outside lugs of the volume pot and screw up the taper. You can literally put it between anywhere that carries the full signal and ground. The output at the switch, the output at the volume pot, the hot and ground at the output jack.

Edit: wait outside lugs is between hot and ground. Hmmmm. Would it be bridging the input and output at the volume that screws up the taper? Now I'm confused.

 

[ErikH]

You don't have to put the resistor across the outside lugs of the volume pot and screw up the taper. You can literally put it between anywhere that carries the full signal and ground. The output at the switch, the output at the volume pot, the hot and ground at the output jack.

Edit: wait outside lugs is between hot and ground. Hmmmm. Would it be bridging the input and output at the volume that screws up the taper? Now I'm confused.

Yes. Exactly. That is why is screws up the taper. A volume control is not playing as a resistor at that point like a tone control pot is. It’s a variable voltage divider. Pots aren’t expensive. I’ve tried the resistor on the terminals thing and it was not what I expected at all.

 

[Clint 55]

Well I don't get why you can't get it to work. I use a 4 way switch as a varitone. 1 side of the switch I have caps and the other side I have resistors. So it's actually a varitone/varivolume. So I can turn my no load tone up to 10 and get it out of the circuit and then switch between just the 500k volume and then resistors bringing it down to about 250k, 150k, and 80k. It doesn't mess up the taper at all, it just kills a little volume with each smaller resistor on the switch positions.

 

[Top-L]

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2018/10/17/using-resistors-in-guitars-101/

 

[Lewguitar]

Wow... just wow.

I bought a guitar a few weeks ago that came with a SD Jazz/Custom 5 combo. Which I wasn't happy with. This was also my first guitar without a tone pot.

Come to find that it has a 500K volume pot. Reading through threads here, learned that a 500K volume pot alone is like a 1M vol + 1M tone.

Today I swapped it with a 250K volume and it has transformed the guitar. It now sounds similar to my other 500+500k guitars.

That's not the way it is.

A 500K volume pot without a tone pot does not result in a 500K volume pot becoming, in effect, a 1 Meg volume pot.

It's still a 500K volume pot with 500K of resistance.

What you experienced is simply that a guitar without a tone pot that is leaking some treble to ground all the time, has MORE TREBLE because MORE TREBLE stays in the signal path instead of leaking to ground through the tone pot.

Even when the tone pot is on "10".

That and the fact (to me!) that the a Custom 5 is too bright.

I'm sure Seymour or whoever created the Duncan Custom tried the Duncan Custom with an A5 magnet and decided against it.

But forum members here experimenting with magnet swaps tried it, liked it, lobbied for it and the next thing you know we had a Duncan Custom 5 as part of the line up. :smack:

I hate that pickup with 500K pots. Hurts my ears. Just no fun.

So does a JB with 500K pots.

Seymour uses a JB in his Tele, but with 250K pots.

So what you've discovered is that you ALSO prefer 250K pots when your guitar has extremely bright or sharp sounding pickups.

 

[Top-L]

That's not the way it is.

A 500K volume pot without a tone pot does not result in a 500K volume pot becoming, in effect, a 1 Meg volume pot.

It's still a 500K volume pot with 500K of resistance.

What you experienced is simply that a guitar without a tone pot that is leaking some treble to ground all the time, has MORE TREBLE because MORE TREBLE stays in the signal path instead of leaking to ground through the tone pot.

Even when the tone pot is on "10".

That and the fact (to me!) that the a Custom 5 is too bright.

I'm sure Seymour or whoever created the Duncan Custom tried the Duncan Custom with an A5 magnet and decided against it.

But forum members here experimenting with magnet swaps tried it, liked it, lobbied for it and the next thing you know we had a Duncan Custom 5 as part of the line up. :smack:

I hate that pickup with 500K pots. Hurts my ears. Just no fun.

So does a JB with 500K pots.

Seymour uses a JB in his Tele, but with 250K pots.

So what you've discovered is that you ALSO prefer 250K pots when your guitar has extremely bright or sharp sounding pickups.

I've been reading conflicting advice on that point. Someone said that a 250K volume (without tone) would sound virtually identical to a 500+500.

I also installed an Evolution which I always like with 500+500, but it was too bright in this guitar. And the D-sonic which is not particularly bright, I usually run with 500+500 but it sounded too aggro with a single 500k vol. Now it sounds "normal" with a single 250 volume.

What I learned is that the effect of removing tone control or changing vol pot can be pretty profound. I have a handful of resistors I'd like to test with to try some in between values.

 

[Lewguitar]

I've been reading conflicting advice on that point. Someone said that a 250K volume (without tone) would sound virtually identical to a 500+500.

I also installed an Evolution which I always like with 500+500, but it was too bright in this guitar. And the D-sonic which is not particularly bright, I usually run with 500+500 but it sounded too aggro with a single 500k vol. Now it sounds "normal" with a single 250 volume.

Good. But the reason your guitar is so bright is because you have no tone control leaking treble to ground.

My PRS guitars have only two pots: a volume and tone control.

I like a lot of transparency and clarity and chime from my neck pickup.

So I modded three of my guitars so only the bridge pickup gets a tone pot.

No tone pot on the neck pickup.

Makes that neck pickup very slightly louder, slightly brighter and slightly clearer.

That's what you're experiencing on BOTH of your pickups because your guitar has no tone pot at all.

 

[Top-L]

Good. But the reason your guitar is so bright is because you have no tone control leaking treble to ground.

My PRS guitars have only two pots: a volume and tone control.

I like a lot of transparency and clarity and chime from my neck pickup.

So I modded three of my guitars so only the bridge pickup gets a tone pot.

No tone pot on the neck pickup.

Makes that neck pickup very slightly louder, slightly brighter and slightly clearer.

That's what you're experiencing on BOTH of your pickups because your guitar has no tone pot at all.

I'm not disagreeing. What I read in another thread, one of the users (who ran a Spice simulation, which is an EE program), found that the frequency response of a single 250K vol, will be virtaully identical to a 500Kvol +500K tone (both on 10).

So far, I can confirm that the D-sonic with a 250K vol is much closer to 500k+500k than it was with just a 500K vol. I'd like to try some in-between pot values, using a resistor to create 300,350,400, etc. Having precise control of the top end is important to me. When the guitar has too much presence, I have to lower the amp's treble/presence and the sound has less cut. IN that sense, having a warmer guitar allows me to have a more articulate, cutting tone.

 

[Lewguitar]

I'm not disagreeing. What I read in another thread, one of the users (who ran a Spice simulation, which is an EE program), found that the frequency response of a single 250K vol, will be virtaully identical to a 500Kvol +500K tone (both on 10).

So far, I can confirm that the D-sonic with a 250K vol is much closer to 500k+500k than it was with just a 500K vol.

That may be. I don't know.

You're just talking about the way it sounds now and maybe they do sound similar.

I couldn't get my tone without a tone pot on my bridge pickup.

I like those Eric Clapton "woman tones" from when he played Gibsons, and Eric Johnson violin tones, and that how you get 'em: turn the tone control way down