Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

[The Tone Ranger]

I have a problem with indecision If I had more money...I'd probably get myself into a lot of trouble! (LOL) Sorry, but this is a long post, but hopefully avoids the need for asking more questions and just giving advice.

So in a previous thread, I got help trying to decide b/t a Line 6 Spider Jam and a Blackstar HT-5. I was mainly thinking of just having fun at home and practicing, so the nod went to the Line 6.

I thought about it some more, and perhaps I should think about just trying to make my tone the best it can be. I'm not a f/t musician. I have a job, a wife, a family, etc. I play guitar as a hobby, but I love it. I just don't have a lot of time to do it. Yes, I need to practice more...which is the most important thing. Also, right now funds are limited. That said, I don't want my tone to sound like guitar is just a hobby (LOL). I play guitar in my church's P&W band 2-3 x per month. I currently use a Line 6 POD XT Live straight into a DI box. It's simple, easy to transport, and seems to sound good. I only use a few patches.

What I like = easy to carry, plug in, done. Lots of amps and effects built in. Built in tuner, volume pedal/wah, tap tempo for delay.

What I don't like = too many options. I'm not a tweaker, not into deep editing, and prefer the sound of real tubes (at least I think I do). Trying to dial in my own patches gets frustrating. Life is short. I don't want to spend 1/2 of it in menus, downloads, etc. I want to basically plug in and play and use the effects I need without having to search through presets, then modify and store in a user preset.

So...I see that most P&W guitar players use Vox amps, tele guitars, and at least 2 delay pedals. They go for that shimmery, airy, ambient sound. This is mostly NOT me. I think most P&W music all sounds the same, which is sad. I'm a 80's hard rock/metal guy. Splawn Street Rod is on my short list That said, I don't want to stick out or make the focus about me, but I don't want to go the Vox/Tele route either. That said, I saw this famous Christian artist, Lincoln Brewster, using a Line 6 POD X3 Live straight to board for his live rig. Go figure. I hear he has gone to Axe FX now. Too expensive and and too many options again. I also see these guys with all these pedals on their board. Wish I could afford all that now, but can't. I know that's their gig and mine is only p/t, so that makes sense.

My 2 guitars right now are a Schecter Solo 6 Std - stock w/Duncan Designed JB/59 combo. It sounds great and is great build quality for the $. My other guitar is a Sterling by Music Man Silo30 that I had set up and upgraded with Dimarzio Cruiser (bridge model) in the neck and an AT-1 in the bridge. This is also a nice guitar for the $. It's basswood so it's really light. I'd prefer alder, but I'll get a real MM Silo Special w/piezo one day

So this "rig" has gotten me by thus far and I could probably just stay that way. However, we do occasionally play out at a homeless shelter and my little Fender Bullet just isn't cutting it. I can't hear myself over the drums. So I feel it's time to get an amp. Like I said earlier, I was going to get the Line 6 Spider Jam for all those jam tracks to practice with and occasionally gig out with. Now I'm rethinking that. I wonder how much I'll actually use it. I wonder if I'm better off getting a tube amp for playing out....or if I ever get to playing bars on weekends or just jamming with friends.

So do I sell/trade the POD XT Live for some pedals? If so, which ones? It seems like I'll need a tuner, volume pedal, wah, OD, and delay w/tap tempo at bare minimum. Chorus and tremolo would be cool...as would phaser, but not critical.

Or do I keep the POD and just use the effects into the tube amp for now?

I don't really need multiple amp models, multiple ODs, etc. Most of the stuff in the POD I don't use. I really need a nice clean sound that I can dirty up with an OD, then go to a boosted distortion when needed. I only play 3 or 4 presets in church - the Hiwatt setting with chorus and delay, the Vox "streets have no name" setting that I will boost with chorus sometimes, and the Marshall Plexi setting for distortion. I sometimes use Line 6 clean setting that I'll throw chorus and delay on. That's been it...mainly b/c I don't want to sit down and go through all the presets and editing. These sounded the best for the setting, so I stick with it.

The amp I'm looking at is the Blackstar HT-5 - 2 channels, effects loop, and line out w/speaker sim so I don't need to lug or mic a cabinet. It sounds great, good clean tone and plenty of gain on tap if needed. It's in the Marshall vein, so I love it. Quiet enough to play at home, yet loud enough to jam with a drummer. Great features and tone for the $ IMO.

I'm 41. I'm also looking at moving later this year. I want to play in my new church home (unless they have a steady band)...so I'm trying to think in the future. I want my tone to be as professional as possible even if my chops aren't

So get the amp, trade in the POD and start the pedal GAS...or

get the amp, keep the POD and just use effects for now...or

keep the POD and get the Spider Jam b/c it will make you a better player.

If I don't get the Spider Jam, what else can I use for backing tracks to jam along to/practice with?

Thanks! Sorry for the novella. If there are any other P&W guitarists in here that can help me out here...that would be awesome.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Have you prayed for guidance?

I think you're over thinking this. Folks who play in church use the same gear as every one else.

Get whatever gives you the tone you hear in your head and that you want to have.

For me, that's my Fender Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb.

The only pedals I use are my TC Chorus, King of Tone overdrive and Memory Man Delay. I also keep a nice TS808 on hand just in case.

But 9 times out of 10, I don't use any pedals. I just plug my Strat, Tele or ES-335 straight into my amp and add a little of my Fender's reverb. Even at church.

We never play very loud so the same amps I gig with at clubs I also use at church.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

If you're sure the HT-5 is loud enough, go for it. Use the pod with it until you know exactly what pedals you want, but I'm sure the amp will give you enough tone and fun to make it worth it.

there are plenty of jam tacks on the internet. just put them on an Mp3 player and use the line-in on the ht-5, works fantastic.

satisfy your GAS and then your gear inspire you!

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Thanks Lewguitar and FuseG4! Nice posts.

Another point of confusion is how much amp I'll need (watts). I've heard some say that 5w will be plenty, while others say it won't. I know 15 will be plenty, but this will mostly be used at home and the occasional jam with a drummer. The thing is...I don't want to get an amp, be fine at home or with another guitarist, then play out or with a drummer and not be heard or have no clean headroom. I need a "balance of power" I know $ goes up with watts too. Ugh.

Thanks again!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Thanks Lewguitar and FuseG4! Nice posts.

Another point of confusion is how much amp I'll need (watts). I've heard some say that 5w will be plenty, while others say it won't. I know 15 will be plenty, but this will mostly be used at home and the occasional jam with a drummer. The thing is...I don't want to get an amp, be fine at home or with another guitarist, then play out or with a drummer and not be heard or have no clean headroom. I need a "balance of power" I know $ goes up with watts too. Ugh.

Thanks again!

I use a 22 watt Fender Deluxe Reverb with a very efficient and great sounding replacement speaker: Celestion G12H30.

5 watts is fine for playing at home. Not for onstage use though. Just to small sounding.

That said, the trick is getting a good sound at low volumes when playing in church.

That is one place where it is NOT all about me strutting my stuff.

And besides, there's a real mix of ages and musical tastes in a church congregation. Some people would rather hear acoustic guitars or an organ, rather than rock guitar.

I think the reason you've seen VOX amps in church is because so many Christian guitarists are hung up on U2 and the Edge. But I can get that sound with my Fender amps and my EH Memory Man and TC Stereo Chorus pedal...although no one has asked me to.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

I you are getting along with the XT Live alright and want to upgrade the sound, personally I'd go with one of the POD HD options or a Fender Mustang floor. Should have all the output/cabling options you will need and alot less to carry all the while being good for at home practice and recording.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

As a P&W guitarist myself Ive seen rigs and set ups you wouldn't believe but its what works for them. Me I freelance a lot so I needed a rig thats versatile but simple for me as well. From what it sounds like is that you want to go ahead and start taking your playing a lil more seriously. My advice would be either get a combo amp or a small head with a cab. I say you want at least a 1x12 cab is because not every place you play at might not have a PA so you will be goin straight from the amp. As far as tubes or Solid state or digital you have to decide which one you like the sound of the most to your ears. Since you said you like a good clean sound maybe look at some old fenders or the reissues and use the POD for effects till you get a good idea of what you might want to use or buy.

My Rig is a Blackstar 40watt Combo no pedals no out board effects. I use the verb and dirt thats built in and thats it. It also has a Emulated output which you can use as a DI straight into the pa. Great clean channel not a Fender type but not marshall it has its own sound. Most times Ill just use only the distortion channel and roll down the vol for my cleans but thats what works for me. I use to use a Marshall MGFX when I was starting out and got a decent sound out of it for what it was. I say Blackstar because if you just want to use the clean you can do that but it also has more for when and if you do decide to gig in a club or do something more extreme. Some P&W guitarist ive seen have huge pedal boards but they also have more to work with and MONEY lol which is why I say keep the POD.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

This might help excuse the fact hes using a Tele.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

One more

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

I watched that video! I've spent far too much time looking at videos, etc.

Thanks again Lewguitar and Rockstar216. I appreciate your input. Now the thing is it looks like I'll have to look for a HT-20. I'd prefer a head and separate cab if possible. Since I can use the line out and not need the cab it will make portability easier. Playing out...I really like the Blackstar 4x8 cab.

Another option is the Orange Tiny Terror or Dark Terror. Very easy to transport. Easy to use. Good tone. 1/2 power switch. That said, no line out, so would have to get a Jet City (or similar) DI box that allows you to plug amp into it and then out to board. Also, only DT has effects loop, but doesn't do decent cleans. They are also $$. I found a used DT for $500...but then I would need a cab.

Blackstar would be my first choice b/c of the tones and features, but the 20 watter is out of my price range unless I can find one used one (new the head is $500, combo is $600).

I guess the search is on for a nice 15-20 watt amp with the features I want.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

My 2¢: with the number of effects you use, the POD isn't going to pay for it's replacement in pedals if you sell it. Also, a lot of churches may prefer you don't use an amp at all and the POD is invaluable for those sort of situations.

I feel that if your budget is limited, and you already have the POD, you should overcome your dislike for tweaking and learn how to dial in the sounds you like, at least long enough to get them into a couple presets.

Amp-wise, I think something with dual 6L6s should be about right.

I hope I'm not stepping on something you already know, but there's three different ways to run something like the POD with an amp:

1) The amp is clean, and acts as an embiggener for the POD. Cab simulation is turned off.
2) The amp is lightly distorted, and the POD acts as a typical P&W/country pedalboard, supplying effects and overdrive but no amp sim.
3) The amp is heavily distorted, and the POD is in the loop, supplying only effects. You can't have pre-distortion effects like compression.


On an unrelated note:

They go for that shimmery, airy, ambient sound. This is mostly NOT me. I think most P&W music all sounds the same, which is sad.

I think the reason you've seen VOX amps in church is because so many Christian guitarists are hung up on U2 and the Edge.

I liked that sound before it was popular and it makes me sad how many of these sort of comments I see these days. My sound has been stolen and commoditized to death.

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Thanks ParameterMan! Sorry your tone has been commoditized I'm not saying it's bad per se, just that is all I seem to hear in P&W music. I really like Switchfoot's tone in their song "Stars". We covered that once...and it was one of my favorite P&W experiences (selfishly...I know it's not about me)

Thanks for your input. Yeah...I knew it wouldn't replace all the pedals. Just thot it might get me the most used ones.

I also know there's the option of getting one of those Tech 21 Power Engines (or similar)...just amplifying the POD when playing out...no tubes, no color. That is an option too.

Much to think...and PRAY about. I thank you all for your input. Keep it coming!

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Ok...now I'm really looking into one of those Tech 21 Power Engine 60's. It looks like my solution...for now. It will amplify my POD perfectly for when I need to amp up. Then, when more products come out, I have more funds, and decide what kind of rig I want (POD HD500 into PE 60...or Splawn Streed Rod and pedals), I can have options.

I will look for used ones. Those Tech 21 character pedals are nice too. The British, American Steel, and Blonde...plugged into a PE 60 sounds great! And the PE 60 (along with an acoustic PRE) will work with an acoustic.

Gotta look more into this option.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Thanks Lewguitar and FuseG4! Nice posts.

Another point of confusion is how much amp I'll need (watts). I've heard some say that 5w will be plenty, while others say it won't. I know 15 will be plenty, but this will mostly be used at home and the occasional jam with a drummer. The thing is...I don't want to get an amp, be fine at home or with another guitarist, then play out or with a drummer and not be heard or have no clean headroom. I need a "balance of power" I know $ goes up with watts too. Ugh.

Thanks again!

perhaps 5 watts might be enough for some of your gigs in small rooms and/or mic'd or DI, but because as others have and will mention, clean headroom and bass response (very) generally go up with wattage too. If you really wanna look down the line and try to keep later gigs in mind, maybe skip the ht-5.

i'd have a look at the studio 20 or club 40 if you like the blackstar sound. You can use the pod with it, get some pedals later, and use the line out at church, but you won't have to worry about being underpowered or terribly overpowered.

if you just can't swing the $, the HT-5 is at the very least a good option for home and church, but if you want to balance small rock gigs with home use, 20 to 40 W in a 1x12 combo is probably gonna be a good place to start.

 

[Ball&Chain]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

I watched that video! I've spent far too much time looking at videos, etc.

Thanks again Lewguitar and Rockstar216. I appreciate your input. Now the thing is it looks like I'll have to look for a HT-20. I'd prefer a head and separate cab if possible. Since I can use the line out and not need the cab it will make portability easier. Playing out...I really like the Blackstar 4x8 cab.

Another option is the Orange Tiny Terror or Dark Terror. Very easy to transport. Easy to use. Good tone. 1/2 power switch. That said, no line out, so would have to get a Jet City (or similar) DI box that allows you to plug amp into it and then out to board. Also, only DT has effects loop, but doesn't do decent cleans. They are also $$. I found a used DT for $500...but then I would need a cab.

Blackstar would be my first choice b/c of the tones and features, but the 20 watter is out of my price range unless I can find one used one (new the head is $500, combo is $600).

I guess the search is on for a nice 15-20 watt amp with the features I want.

Check ebay. You can sometimes find deals on them. I got my HT-20 combo for a little over 300 bucks shipped. It was used, but in new condition with all the original packaging.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Also, the tech 21 or similar stuff is in interesting way to go but its sort of a step in the other direction from tube tone, and it kinda locks you into trying to find stuff that you think sounds good with that cab and power amp.

additionally, the tiny terror and dark terror are sort of more classic rock and up into hard rock with the dark terror being gainier and having a fuzzy british heavy metal feel. Not a ton of headroom. Not very 80s rock if you ask me.

If you can find the ht-20 at a good deal, do it. Patience is a virtue. If you're really on a budget, and need something NOW (I know that feeling) then still get a HT-5 cuz it's better than a line 6!

 

[everdrone]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

lestrat SD forumite uses the line 6 for praise and is happy with it

praise is at super low volumes, and having a ton of diverse tones make modeling ideal. I dig my line6 bassguitar head, since it is diverse for cover band stuff. but for guitar I am a dirt lover, and modeling is not gonna cut it for me; I have never heard a modeler do a good fuzz pedal/amp tone.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

 

[B Bent]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Use your POD to your advantage. Find the amp models on there you like and go buy the real deal version of your absolute favorite. I play anything from a Vibrolux Reverb, Tweed Champ, Silvertone 1482 or a Magnatone 213 clone at church no matter what is being played. All of those sound great!

 

[The Tone Ranger]

Re: Praise and Worship Gear...time to upgrade from modelling?

Thanks for all your input...it is truly appreciated. Considering my funds and focus right now, I think the smartest move is to keep the POD and try to find the best price on a Tech 21 PE 60 when I play “out”/with a drummer, etc.
Considering my funds...all I’d do is upset my wife and “settle” for stuff I would end up getting rid of later.

When the time is right and the funds are there...I’ll reward myself with a nice rig (which will include a Splawn!). The way amp manufacturers and technology are moving now...I’ll have even more options then.

Thanks again!