Programming drums

[Icarusfire]

Re: Programming drums

iPhones probably have garageband now, don't they?

yes but it can be scaled down version, not sure.

I found this:

"Because your iOS device doesn’t have a pressure-sensitive screen, GarageBand uses the velocity of your touch to imitate force. The Velocity Sensitivity setting offers four options: High, Medium, Low, and Off. "

Probably it measures the time your finger stays in touch with the screen, shorter the time "chances are" you play faster in that moment, so "chances are" you apply more force than usual, or that's how I would program it with a touch only screen

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Programming drums

Garage Band for iPhone is hugely scaled down. The free download starter version does almost nothing. As with several guitar amp modelling apps for cell 'phones, numerous in-app purchases would be necessary to obtain any serious functionality.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Programming drums

I just use loops in toontrack - their midi programming has chorus/main verse/bridge/fills etc

doesnt sound that bad...

I wish I had a pad or electronic drumset for the real deal, but ya that means learning how to drum; I need to focus on guitar/bass

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Programming drums

Here's a video of a guy using a Yamaha DD55c to input MIDI to EZdrummer.

you can find these cheapish online. I'd also buy a different foot pedal. The bass pedal is velocity sensitive, but the hihat isn't. I imagine you can swap out the kick for a Guitar Hero kick and a 1/4in adapter. You'll also need a MIDI > USB cord which run about $20.

I think the Guitar Hero pedals are velocity sensitive. The Rock Band ones aren't.
You can actually use a Guitar Hero World Tour set as velocity sensitive pads. Each pad has a 1/8 headphone style jack on it. If you have a midi brain like a Trigger I/O or any of the drum-specific brains from the sets that will connect to a computer via USB or MIDI, you can run it into EZdrummer or BFD or w/e. I used the cymbals off of a thrift store controller I found to add more cymbals to my DM8.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Programming drums

BFD2 has a nifty "humanize" feature which shifts note spacing and velocities anywhere between subtle and "are you drunk again, or still!?"

I like for everything to be in its perfectly-aligned place in my drum tracks, and then highlight one piece (hi-hat) and wiggle the humanize control just a touch.

Actually, that's what I have. It's the BFD2 and I believe the XTL is an add on. I love the sound of those drums and the way you can mike them, but the step by step programming takes too long. I think some kind of "loops" like someone said may be what I'm looking for. When I first started doing this, loops were too basic for me, which is why I started programming from scratch. Have they gotten any "better"? Is there a Neil Peart in a can out there anywhere?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Programming drums

Why would you want a velocity sensitive kick pedal? Unless you are a drummer, I think it would sound very uneven!

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Programming drums

Why would you want a velocity sensitive kick pedal? Unless you are a drummer, I think it would sound very uneven!

It'd be uneven if you are doing blasts, but the ability of variation is nice for slower stuff like jazz or older rock. Stuff with less kick action.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[everdrone]

Re: Programming drums

the toontrack loops are called "MIDI Packs" and are for many types of genres. they have some demos so you can check em out before you buy:

http://www.toontrack.com/midipacks.asp

I have bought some and will buy more soon, they are great! by famous drummers. here is the next two I plan on buying for $30 each:

blues:

http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=140

metal:

http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=219

I have never seen MIDIs go on sale for less than $29 but ezdrummer/expansions and Superior 2.3 do go on sale during the holidays

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Programming drums

Actually, that's what I have. It's the BFD2 and I believe the XTL is an add on. I love the sound of those drums and the way you can mike them, but the step by step programming takes too long. I think some kind of "loops" like someone said may be what I'm looking for. When I first started doing this, loops were too basic for me, which is why I started programming from scratch. Have they gotten any "better"? Is there a Neil Peart in a can out there anywhere?

I typically start with preset patterns, which are plentiful, and find one to modify to suit my needs; adding/removing hits, tweaking velocities, etc. The smallest change you can make that has the biggest impact is to adjust the tempo. Most presets have suggested BPM in the name, but cut them in half, or reduce by a third, or double their speed, match them to a kit that fits the tempo, and you'd be amazed at the versatility you can get from one preset pattern. That's how I did my Alesis SR16. I've got probably 10 songs that use the same patterns, but each one is a different tempo and kit type, and each song sounds unique.

For patterns I built myself, it does take time, but if you build it based on the main rhythm guitar pattern, starting with the basic kick/snare interplay, then do the hi-hat and accents like cymbals and fills/rolls/turnarounds, it goes a little faster.

The biggest issue with a guitarist trying to think like a drummer is that you try to relate what you do on guitar (focus all the attention on yourself with fills and riffs and such) and end up with overly-busy drums under a basic rhythm figure. At the other end of the spectrum, you have those who try to get guitar-happy over a basic drum pattern. If you bring in a drummer, they may want to be the featured instrument. This is a common element of a lot of the BFD2 preset patterns, which means the guitar has to take on a minimalist role. Fine if that's your style, but not mine.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Programming drums

You know something else I'm finding about the DD55 that I like? I don't have to use sticks. There's a button on it that adjusts the sensitivity to hand force instead of drum stick force, so you can play them like bongos. For people like me who've been drumming on stuff with my hands and fingers my entire life, it converts the process into something much more comfortable. Changing the drum head voicing on one of the top pads (instead of the foot controller) can set it up to have a kick actuated by hand. As the sensitivity can be ramped up really high, doing fierce double-kick blasts with fingers on a pad becomes pretty easy to feed in to a MIDI piano roll, and it will have a certain human off-time quality to it.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Programming drums

Yeah, but you also miss the "flow" that you would get with a full kit with sticks. Still, we find our own happiness.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Programming drums

Yeah, but you also miss the "flow" that you would get with a full kit with sticks. Still, we find our own happiness.

I've been alive for 38 years and playing musical instruments for 30 of that and never ever got behind a set until maybe 5 years ago, then an ekit shortly thereafter. I have no flow to miss. I'm just a squirrel tryina getta nut. Don't tell Aceman.

 

[Scottulus]

Re: Programming drums

Hmmn, I usually "keyboard" input basic snare and Kick stuff, about 8 measures at a time, and then I add in my cymbal stuff the same way; after I do that I edit all my velocities and fill stuff in the step editor, Logic makes it really easy to do this, actually.If I feel really lazy, I'll just drop in a groove from NI Komplete's Studio Drummer, Or Abbey Road And mess with that a bit. Drummer's never quite do what you want 'em to do, so when I record stuff I like to keep that feeling of "immmm well, not quite, but it'll do..." hahahaha

I play drums too, if I feel really motivated I'll just play them in, but yeah huge pain in the but whichever way you go about getting your drums down...

 

[ginormous]

Re: Programming drums

I've gotten interested in making my own drum input and have found out that it can be incredibly easy for someone who's crafty enough. The device that does the actual velocity reading is nothing more than a simple piezo buzzer. They're a buck at Radio Shack (until RS decides to get rid oc components all together), and it's essentially a piezo with the leads lengthened and ran into the drum brain which reads the varying voltages generated by the piezo and converts it to MIDI numbers. If you get a slab of that soft shop flooring, you can cut it into sections, tape a piezo to the bottom with packing tape, butcher a few old guitar cables and solder proper color to color, plug it into a brain and you have a drum set. You can also make the sought-after mesh heads with some foam, a piezo, some screen door cloth and some way to stick them all together in a drum shape. Snap-form cake molds work great if you find them used at the thrift store.

You can also build a converter from arduinos or similar newfangled microprocessor toys...or just buy/trade for a brain with MIDI out.

No, I haven't done any of this. I have a DM8 that has drum with physical heads and stuff. I've wanted to though...sound like a fun way to make a nice, easily collapsible kit that could fit in a briefcase.

ooh, here's a vid of a guy who's just wired raw piezo buzzers into a drum brain. This is the same thing that DDrum sticks in those cast-steel clamps to convert drums to triggers, and the same thing that a $600 Roland snare has in the head. Cashing in on the mysticism of MIDI.

A buddy of mine did something similar in the 80's. Real crafty guy; he worked repairing VCRs and cameras. This guy took apart some old piezo tweeters, and got some Remo practice pads (small, circular high-impact plastic shells with padding inside, and actual Ambassador heads stretched across).

He took the practice pads apart, and used a Dremel drill to bore a hole on the side of each shell. He put a dot of hot glue on the tip of the tweeter crystal, and soldered some guitar cord on the ends of the tweeter crystal leads, and soldered a quarter-inch jack at the other end. Then he put the crystal inside, underneath the padding. He mounted the jack, and re-assembled the shell. Ta-da -- DIY drum trigger. He said afterward that "If anything, they're too sensitive." Certainly better than anything available commercially at the time.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Programming drums

Alesis Control Pad + set of sticks:

I use one of these. Geeze, I haven't done anything in awhile cause it takes me forever and turns into a micromanagement headache after a bit. I do a pass with 1-3 things (say, hihat, snare, and bass drum), then do another pass or 2-3 to catch the rest. But then I gotta delete the "double triggers", false triggers, fix velocities, fix some timing issues, etc. I need to do something again, probably something short just to make sure it gets done.

 

[Scottulus]

Re: Programming drums

Also, for what it's worth, "playing" stuff in on iPad (Garageband) sucks, it just does... Step recording is the way to go, I feel if you are using an iPad. I The Line6 MobileKeys 25 is a great way to midi control; My Fishman Triple Play midi pickup is kind of hit and miss on the iPad, even though it usually tracks very, very well. lol Not that anyone cares about iPad...

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Programming drums

I use one of these. Geeze, I haven't done anything in awhile cause it takes me forever and turns into a micromanagement headache after a bit. I do a pass with 1-3 things (say, hihat, snare, and bass drum), then do another pass or 2-3 to catch the rest. But then I gotta delete the "double triggers", false triggers, fix velocities, fix some timing issues, etc. I need to do something again, probably something short just to make sure it gets done.

THat was one of the reasons I decided to not get one of those, now that I think about it. Alesises are built cheaper than the Rolands, and there's a lot of crosstalk. I went with the DM8 for that reason.