Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

[BMozingo]

I've never had a guitar with a Floyd Rose.. I am planning on getting one put on my hybrid Fender Strat. Not just for tone but for overall playability. I am going to get a real Floyd Rose and not a licensed one. My question is about tone.. Right now I have the vintage style trem and I am wondering if the Floyd Rose will give me more sustain and better tone.. I am thinking more mass with better quality material with the Rose should help.

The neck is from an Fender American Strat(maple), the body is a Mexican Standard Strat and I am waiting for my Duncan Custom Custom and the APH-1 pro for the neck to come in. All of the pups I have had in there (Lace Sensors to Hot Rails) have given me horrible tone in this guitar, mainly clean sound. .. it is so shrill and bright that it sounds like an ice pick in your ear. I know a maple neck will make it bright but this is bright beyond belief. Where could all of the brightness be coming from? Could it be the neck? A combination of the trem, neck along with the body? I'm hoping the Custom Custom with the APH-1 in the neck with the Floyd Rose will give me something a little warmer. The Hot Rails did sound good distorted and gave it some warmth but i did not like the Hot Rails in general. Any comments or ideas?

 

[sosomething]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

A Floyd will probably not darken your tone. I find Floyd's to have some inherent brightness to them, which in itself is usually a good thing, but in your guitar it's probably the opposite of what you're looking for.

Try some graphtech saddles on your existing trem. They're known to darken the tone of most guitars considerably.

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

The jury is still out on my new pick ups.. Im thinking the two full size humbuckers will warm things up. I wanted this guitar to be my fat strat and my other to be the traditional coil strat. I was also thinking about getting the two point tremolo along with a new graphite nut with locking tuners. That may help tone. Whatever I do, the vintage 6 point trem is going. I hate the feel of it. It's not enjoyable to use. I thought that the Floyd Rose has got to help the sound in some way more than the generic 6 point made in mexico vinatge trem. I cant see this guitar getting brighter.

Another question is about pots.. I think I will start with 250k. I know Humbuckers use 500K,but being this guitar is as bright as the sun I will start with 250k since i already have them and go up to 500k if I need to. I am not giving up on this guitar.. not yet. I love the neck.

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

Here is another question.. Has anyone ever heard of a mahogany bodied strat? I seen those on warmoth and thought about that. I dont know much about wood.. I know Strat is usualy Alder or Ash..The price is about $170 for the body...The trouble is that they are not finished and they charge an arm and a leg to have them painted. That would take it up over $350..

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

With the MIM bodies some can sound nice and some are so so.... i have 4 MIM Standards now and one of mine is amazing, 2 are OK and the 4th is god awful for tone..... the 4th one i have tried many different pickups and it does not matter what i stick in it it still is awful.... on the flip side my good MIM Fender Standard is all stock and it sounds amazing!!!!

I had a Basswood body maple neck parts guitar that was made up of aftermarket factory 2nd parts.... it really was a POS but sounded great with the Bone Nut and a Gotoh Vintage style strat trem...... the guitar sounded extremely thick but never stayed in tune..... so i added a floyd original to it... i had a hell of a time getting a floyd on it and i'm still messing with it to fix my router mistakes... But the tone difference from the Vintage set up to a Floyd was really noticeable.... so much so i don't think i'll ever add a Floyd to any of my other guitars i really like again... i still like Floyds and all but the difference was enough to make me think i'll keep the rest of my guitars with nonlocking trems and string thru bridges... Even so this POS strat i added the Floyd too still kicks butt for sound. I love Jackson/Charvel style guitars a hell of a lot so i see more Floyds in my future... Maybe even a Warmoth with a Floyd...

In your case i can't see a Floyd making your guitar sound better...... Like my Number 4 MIM Strat that sounds like dung it may just be the wood and none of the parts that make it suck for tone....

 

[sosomething]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

The jury is still out on my new pick ups.. Im thinking the two full size humbuckers will warm things up. I wanted this guitar to be my fat strat and my other to be the traditional coil strat. I was also thinking about getting the two point tremolo along with a new graphite nut with locking tuners. That may help tone. Whatever I do, the vintage 6 point trem is going. I hate the feel of it. It's not enjoyable to use. I thought that the Floyd Rose has got to help the sound in some way more than the generic 6 point made in mexico vinatge trem. I cant see this guitar getting brighter.

Are you going to rout the body to install the mounting studs required for a Floyd or other modern 2-point trem?

The vintage 6-point trem is just 6 screws sunk directly into the wood of the body, but a modern 2-point trem has big studs that are sunken into the wood that the bridge posts thread into. It's not a direct replacement - some real modification is necessary to make the switch.

One thing you could try before you do that is to change the block of your trem, or buy a better US-made 6-point trem with a better block. Callaham makes trem blocks out of differet materials, and I'm pretty sure other companies do as well. I'd check that out.

Another question is about pots.. I think I will start with 250k. I know Humbuckers use 500K,but being this guitar is as bright as the sun I will start with 250k since i already have them and go up to 500k if I need to. I am not giving up on this guitar.. not yet. I love the neck.

250k Pots might help. That's a cheap, reversible solution if it works. It may just be the body, though. Some guitars are bright and there's nothing you can do about it. The tonal aspects of wood (Ash = brighter, Mahogany = darker) is usually a good place to start, but that's really only a guideline as each piece of wood is different.

Case in point: I owned an SG Special for a while that played and felt great, but it was just a BRIGHT guitar. We're talking Mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fretboard, and it was bright as hell. I tried all different pickups - I even had an EMG 85 in the bridge at one point, and no matter what I did, the tone just never really had any body to it.

You could check out a Warmoth body in a traditionally darker-sounding wood and finish it yourself with Reranch supplies (much cheaper than having Warmoth finish it) and be much happier, but there is a slight chance it's still going to be a bright guitar.

I'm writing a book here (sorry) but one more quick note --- if you DO buy a body from Warmoth, DO NOT have them finish it. Their finishes are very well-done and always look great, but they do cost an arm and a leg, and I don't like the way they do it. Warmoth finishes bodies in thick polyurethane and the two finished bodies I've ordered from them might as well have been made of plastic for all the tone they posessed. Very muted and dead sounding, with no body at all. They use super-high-quality wood so I'm convinced that it's the thick plasticy poly they finish everything in.

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

The routing will be done by a guy in my local guitar shop.. I dont have the skill to do it myself and never intended to. the Wilkinson 6 point trem that Stew Mac sells looks nice. Take a look at that. I doubt i will do that..I dont want the 6 point anymore. I thought about the 2 point trem because that is what I have on my Strat Plus and I like it alot. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolos/Wilkinson_Gotoh_VSVG_Vintage_Tremolo.html
The tream that Stew Mac sells is a much better design with better sadles than the junk that is on my guitar now.

The body probably is the culprit. I have had two necks on it,,the original Mexican Strat neck and now an American neck with 3 different sets of pups and it has always been bright. I never liked the Mexican neck..The American neck is much better quality..more $ of course.

I will wait and see what I will do when I get my new Duncan pups next week. I may just get a new body either from Warmoth or shop around ebay. If I get the body from Warmoth, I will have to get it finished somewhere or do it myself. I still want a Floyd Rose because I want this Fat Strat to be my hot rod and my Strat Plus to be my 'traditional' strat.

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

Also, I decided to try the 250k pots first because I already have them..and like you said,if it sounds bad I can always get the 500k pots..no big expense,only a couple of dollars. As all of you Strat/Hybrid owners know, it sometimes it takes awhile to get a Strat to a point where you are satisfied with it. But I actually enjoy doing this, when I get it right it will be very satisfying.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

It sounds like you know what plan to take - glad you're enjoying the process. Are you going to have the trem uprouted?

 

[ErikH]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

If you stick with the CC in the bridge, do not use 250k pots. It will darken it up too much. With the rolled off highs of the CC, you want a 500k. I've got one of my CC's in a maple body Kramer with a non-recessed Floyd, 500k volume pot and it's not bright at all. If anything, the CC will warm up a bright guitar.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

If you stick with the CC in the bridge, do not use 250k pots. It will darken it up too much. With the rolled off highs of the CC, you want a 500k. I've got one of my CC's in a maple body Kramer with a non-recessed Floyd, 500k volume pot and it's not bright at all. If anything, the CC will warm up a bright guitar.

I have a CC in the bridge postition on one of my MIM Standard strats and it's not bad at all....

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

I dont know if I will have it uprouted. I dont know if I will keep this body.I will wait and see how these pups sound in it, then from that point i will decide if this MIM Strat body is a keeper. I've never had full sized Humbuckers in this guitar..maybe that will do it. I will have to take some wood off at the neck pup cavity for the full size bucker to fit, but that i can do myself. I like the idea of a bridge and neck pup with no middle for this Strat. My other Strat i want all 3. If I get a body from one from warmoth, i will just buy the Floyd Rose there also and have them route it for me. I will get the neck done in my area/ The neck is a keeper. My mind is made up, the Floyd Rose is a must for me on this Strat..if that means a new body, so be it. Thanks for your responses.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

What kind of nut / tuners do you have on the neck? If you have a well-cut nut and locking tuners, you may not need to have the neck modified at all to have a Floyd put on it. I have a Carvin CCT with an OFR, locking Sperzels, and a Graphtech nut (no lock nut) and it stays in tune perfectly no matter how abusive I get with the trem, just like any other floyd.

The only difference functionally is that there is no pointy locking nut to stab me in the side of my finger when I slide down into 1st position too quickly.

 

[Ibanezrgonfire]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

the schaller version has a less brittle tone than the OFR:smokin:

 

[fenderiarhs]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

I would not recommend installing a floyd rose bridge in a fender strat..I had a fender US strat special floyd rose hss which came with a floyd rose original as a standard feature.......the guitar lacked sustain, didn't have a good tone and sounded quite thin even with emg active pickups. I was frustrated with the guitar untill i sold the floyd and installed a classic vintage 6 screw tremolo with a steel block and that(and the lack of the locking nut) made A HUGE DIFFERENCE both in tone and playability of the guitar.
I am not against floyd roses in general.....i have a hamer US chapparal custom that comes with a schaller FR and it has awesome tone...........i just don't feel floyd roses are matching well with fender strats......

 

[Ibanezrgonfire]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

I would not recommend installing a floyd rose bridge in a fender strat..I had a fender US strat special floyd rose hss which came with a floyd rose original as a standard feature.......the guitar lacked sustain, didn't have a good tone and sounded quite thin even with emg active pickups. I was frustrated with the guitar untill i sold the floyd and installed a classic vintage 6 screw tremolo with a steel block and that(and the lack of the locking nut) made A HUGE DIFFERENCE both in tone and playability of the guitar.
I am not against floyd roses in general.....i have a hamer US chapparal custom that comes with a schaller FR and it has awesome tone...........i just don't feel floyd roses are matching well with fender strats......

I like a floyd in a mahagany guitar but in a alder strat they can sound very thin and brittle.
but there are ways around it like using a BREED or other fat sounding pup bridge pup which brings back the full tone the floyd robs.

 

[BMozingo]

Re: Question about Floyd Rose and bright tone

Getting a Floyd is not written in stone..even though I posted that. I would consider the two point..In fact a good guitar tech in my area even said that a good graphite nut with a good trem would help tone alot. He looked at the saddles on my MIM trem and laughed. I have about 3 months before i do all of this, so I have plenty of time. The reason I want the 2 point is that I like the feel of them much more. My strat Plus has great feel with the 2 point.

As for pots, i have no choice but to go with 250k right now,its all i got. No guitar store around my area sells them so i will have to order it,which i cant do for another 2 weeks anyway.