Question for Duncan the company
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Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I hate some of you more than The Dude hates The Eagles.
I hate some of you more than The Dude hates The Eagles.
DreX
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
In retrospect it might have been better if he didn't because the answer he gave was not totally plausible. Others pointed out that other companies would have faced the same (non) dilemma, and Derek said they had nothing new and exciting, but the Bonamassa and WLH models are fairly new and well regarded. It just doesn't hold water.
I thought the round up videos were clean and clear and definitely useful to shoppers. I was expecting a "shootout", something less than respectable like Chappers and Captain bull**** where people would giggle and a lot and occasionally play guitar, but it wasn't at all that, and I'm bummed that I didn't get to hear Duncans in the side by side.
In retrospect it might have been better if he didn't because the answer he gave was not totally plausible. Others pointed out that other companies would have faced the same (non) dilemma, and Derek said they had nothing new and exciting, but the Bonamassa and WLH models are fairly new and well regarded. It just doesn't hold water.
I thought the round up videos were clean and clear and definitely useful to shoppers. I was expecting a "shootout", something less than respectable like Chappers and Captain bull**** where people would giggle and a lot and occasionally play guitar, but it wasn't at all that, and I'm bummed that I didn't get to hear Duncans in the side by side.
Jocelyn
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/sh55_seth_lover/
What sounds better to someone is totally subjective, as what would sound good to me I would not expect some one else to like it.
They were created in collaboration with the man who invented them. So yes they should be the most authentic thing. Duncan website answered that clearly.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/sh55_seth_lover/
What sounds better to someone is totally subjective, as what would sound good to me I would not expect some one else to like it.
DreX
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
The Duncan site doesn't answer my question specifically. It makes no mention of Throbak, and obviously it wouldn't.
While it should be true that collaborating with Seth Lover would make for a completely authentic recreation, that's no a guarantee by itself. He could have forgotten or misremembered details for all we know. Seems like a safe bet that SD made a very close replica, but since this is a game where competitors are trying to be authentic down to the smallest blemishes and machine markings, you can't assume anything.
The Duncan site doesn't answer my question specifically. It makes no mention of Throbak, and obviously it wouldn't.
While it should be true that collaborating with Seth Lover would make for a completely authentic recreation, that's no a guarantee by itself. He could have forgotten or misremembered details for all we know. Seems like a safe bet that SD made a very close replica, but since this is a game where competitors are trying to be authentic down to the smallest blemishes and machine markings, you can't assume anything.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
Exactly. It wasn't anywhere near plausible. It was laughable, and it showed that he thinks his customers are idiots.
I don't think the company owes us an answer at all. I don't even care about the "shootout." But if they are gonna give an answer, at least don't insult my intelligence with it.
Exactly. It wasn't anywhere near plausible. It was laughable, and it showed that he thinks his customers are idiots.
I don't think the company owes us an answer at all. I don't even care about the "shootout." But if they are gonna give an answer, at least don't insult my intelligence with it.
El Supremo
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
+1 Unless they feel PAF's and other old school designs aren't exciting any more. In that case they should've just sended in the Slug. Compare this sucka
.
+1 Unless they feel PAF's and other old school designs aren't exciting any more. In that case they should've just sended in the Slug. Compare this sucka
.
Rodney Gene
O.G.
Re: Question for Duncan the company
It is a bizarre thread to read, especially from so many experienced players.
SD afraid of a PAF shootout/roundup? Cmon... is that even a genuine sentiment? Missed opportunity for exposure? Na. There isn't any drama around this, LOL.
The reviewer was Matt Blackett. Former....SD employee (Senior Manager of Product Development). Friend of the company. Matt is the 'guy' who nearly 20 years ago painstakingly recorded the sound clips for all of the pickups on the (CD originally) and now website. Including the PAFS. Matt knows every PAF Duncan makes...probably owns many of them and certainly has access to them all. If SD was not in the 'Round-Up' it was based on a good reason and Dereks reply was valid. Like it or not, agree with it or not, believe or not it's legit. Knowing the integrity of the company and the massive workload they are all under, I respect any choice they made. Not a screw-up, not an oversight, just a choice....it's really a non-issue.
As for the statement 'SD declined to send in samples'... that was said out of respect to show that the reviewer understands a leading 'PAF' style manufacturer is missing from the line-up. It prevents readers from asking why 'GP' omitted them.
Duncan has been in more PAF roundups than any company in the world. It's OK to decline now and again. It will happen again.
Cheers,
RG
It is a bizarre thread to read, especially from so many experienced players.
SD afraid of a PAF shootout/roundup? Cmon... is that even a genuine sentiment? Missed opportunity for exposure? Na. There isn't any drama around this, LOL.
The reviewer was Matt Blackett. Former....SD employee (Senior Manager of Product Development). Friend of the company. Matt is the 'guy' who nearly 20 years ago painstakingly recorded the sound clips for all of the pickups on the (CD originally) and now website. Including the PAFS. Matt knows every PAF Duncan makes...probably owns many of them and certainly has access to them all. If SD was not in the 'Round-Up' it was based on a good reason and Dereks reply was valid. Like it or not, agree with it or not, believe or not it's legit. Knowing the integrity of the company and the massive workload they are all under, I respect any choice they made. Not a screw-up, not an oversight, just a choice....it's really a non-issue.
As for the statement 'SD declined to send in samples'... that was said out of respect to show that the reviewer understands a leading 'PAF' style manufacturer is missing from the line-up. It prevents readers from asking why 'GP' omitted them.
Duncan has been in more PAF roundups than any company in the world. It's OK to decline now and again. It will happen again.
Cheers,
RG
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Question for Duncan the company
No, they are not. The bobbins are the right material, and the long legs are there but the magnet is polished, and the tooling marks aren't there on the baseplates. The Seth is literally the pup as it never existed, in its perfect "spec sheet form". So that makes them correct per the build sheet from 1955 Gibson but not really like a specific PAF that Seymour copied like the PG or 59.
Lol
Sounds like somebody just peed on your rug...
No, they are not. The bobbins are the right material, and the long legs are there but the magnet is polished, and the tooling marks aren't there on the baseplates. The Seth is literally the pup as it never existed, in its perfect "spec sheet form". So that makes them correct per the build sheet from 1955 Gibson but not really like a specific PAF that Seymour copied like the PG or 59.
I hate some of you more than The Dude hates The Eagles.
Lol
Sounds like somebody just peed on your rug...
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Question for Duncan the company
That statement actually explains a lot. Imagine if SD sent something in, and Matt honest-to-God, thought it was the best sounding pup. He'd immediately be accused of bias for his long association with SD. People would say it was rigged from the get-go. SD was 'tween a rock and a hard place. They almost couldn't participate.
That statement actually explains a lot. Imagine if SD sent something in, and Matt honest-to-God, thought it was the best sounding pup. He'd immediately be accused of bias for his long association with SD. People would say it was rigged from the get-go. SD was 'tween a rock and a hard place. They almost couldn't participate.
frankfalbo
In Fluence Y'all
Re: Question for Duncan the company
No, that's not it. Matt has reviewed plenty of other SD product and lots of magazine contributors have worked for other companies within the industry. Matt was only at SD for maybe 11 months? But we all do have Matt to thank for things like pushing forward on Blackouts, and pushing to include tap tempo when the first tremolo prototypes did not. And he's a great guy.
I'm trying to figure how to process this too. Its "someone else's house" but it's also established to get customer feedback in real time, and has been used for exactly that at times in the past. I need a minute...
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I agree with Kojak. The comparison thang is meaningless.
Take, as an example, the venerable SD pickup demonstration sound clips. Great pains were taken to use the same host guitars, same pickup heights, same strings, same amplification, same amp settings, same session musician, same licks. The moment that any given pickup falls into the hands of a different guitarist, so many of the variables have changed that the original comparisons are irrelevant.
I agree with Kojak. The comparison thang is meaningless.
Take, as an example, the venerable SD pickup demonstration sound clips. Great pains were taken to use the same host guitars, same pickup heights, same strings, same amplification, same amp settings, same session musician, same licks. The moment that any given pickup falls into the hands of a different guitarist, so many of the variables have changed that the original comparisons are irrelevant.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
AFAIK and if memory serves me, the shape of the naked / unwound butyrate bobbins is also different, without "straight walls" but with cylinders and recessed parts giving more rigidity. And the screw poles are threaded only in the bobbins but not in the baseplate (in which they were still threaded in my ol' Seymourized SH1's, built by Seymour before 1980). I've also a doubt about the pole shoe/keeper bar, screws and slugs, although I don't remember how these parts look once pulled off - I had pics somewhere in my archives but I've lost 'em in two successive HD crashes and I've not enough time nor energy to risk a new SH55 dissection right now.
So, yes, AFAIK/IME/IMHO, Seth's are "updated" P.A.F.'s, born from the patent + all the experience collected in the meantime by Seymour and Seth, in order to solve some issues potentially present with real P.A.F.'s - like the squeal possibly due to threaded screws and that I had to tame in more "faithful" replicas...
AFAIK and if memory serves me, the shape of the naked / unwound butyrate bobbins is also different, without "straight walls" but with cylinders and recessed parts giving more rigidity. And the screw poles are threaded only in the bobbins but not in the baseplate (in which they were still threaded in my ol' Seymourized SH1's, built by Seymour before 1980). I've also a doubt about the pole shoe/keeper bar, screws and slugs, although I don't remember how these parts look once pulled off - I had pics somewhere in my archives but I've lost 'em in two successive HD crashes and I've not enough time nor energy to risk a new SH55 dissection right now.
So, yes, AFAIK/IME/IMHO, Seth's are "updated" P.A.F.'s, born from the patent + all the experience collected in the meantime by Seymour and Seth, in order to solve some issues potentially present with real P.A.F.'s - like the squeal possibly due to threaded screws and that I had to tame in more "faithful" replicas...
Rockstar216
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
The way some of you guys are acting you would of though this was your company or your legacy. Look you guys have to remember SD doesn't owe any of you guys anything not a explanation not $hit. Derek gave you an answer, if you don't like it keep it pushing but to straight up say he's full of it is just disrespectful and makes me wonder about your character.
Also to Dre X the Seth Lover set is what the PAF was suppose to be in the 1950's if it had been done correctly. The 59 set is a example of what was actually produced along with the PG set. As for the difference between Seths and throbacks I suggest you buy a set from both companies because thats the only way to really find out which one you like better.
The way some of you guys are acting you would of though this was your company or your legacy. Look you guys have to remember SD doesn't owe any of you guys anything not a explanation not $hit. Derek gave you an answer, if you don't like it keep it pushing but to straight up say he's full of it is just disrespectful and makes me wonder about your character.
Also to Dre X the Seth Lover set is what the PAF was suppose to be in the 1950's if it had been done correctly. The 59 set is a example of what was actually produced along with the PG set. As for the difference between Seths and throbacks I suggest you buy a set from both companies because thats the only way to really find out which one you like better.
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I like SD pickups and I'd like to see them stay in business, sure. Is not sending pickups to this roundup going to hurt business? That's an opinion that is difficult to back up from either side of the argument.
What I really don't get is these responses that appear disrespectful and somewhat aggressive. I can certainly see why monitoring customer feedback "keeping a pulse" on your customers is definitely a good thing, but I'm not seeing how customer feedback on SD not participating in a gear roundup is useful. If you don't want to buy a SD pickup because you don't like it, that I understand. If you don't want to buy a SD pickup because they didn't participate in a roundup, that I actually don't understand. And if this over dramatized situation isn't going to affect your SD pickup buying behaviors I'm not sure why SD would care either because at the end of the day it's a business.
Also, I think that this is another great example of how the internet/electronic social norms are so much different than in person discourse. Back in the day calling someone a liar got you in a fight. Now it could possibly get you an "infraction" or "suspension" at worst when done via electronic media. I think we can have our opinions, share them with others here, and still have some class doing so.
I like SD pickups and I'd like to see them stay in business, sure. Is not sending pickups to this roundup going to hurt business? That's an opinion that is difficult to back up from either side of the argument.
What I really don't get is these responses that appear disrespectful and somewhat aggressive. I can certainly see why monitoring customer feedback "keeping a pulse" on your customers is definitely a good thing, but I'm not seeing how customer feedback on SD not participating in a gear roundup is useful. If you don't want to buy a SD pickup because you don't like it, that I understand. If you don't want to buy a SD pickup because they didn't participate in a roundup, that I actually don't understand. And if this over dramatized situation isn't going to affect your SD pickup buying behaviors I'm not sure why SD would care either because at the end of the day it's a business.
Also, I think that this is another great example of how the internet/electronic social norms are so much different than in person discourse. Back in the day calling someone a liar got you in a fight. Now it could possibly get you an "infraction" or "suspension" at worst when done via electronic media. I think we can have our opinions, share them with others here, and still have some class doing so.
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Artie
Peaveyologist
El Supremo
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
I surely have respect, but the statement that "there's nothing new and exciting" is a very weird one, to me at least. The reason given for not participating would almost suggest you don't fully stand by your new products.
Apart from the UK there's only one online store in Europe that has WLHs readily available (and only uncovered) and there ain't a lot of vids up there, nor info on how they compare to other pups (apart from the reviews on this forum that is). So it certainly is relatively new and it certainly is exciting (to me at least).
Having your new model featured in a shootout (especially if it were to appear in video format) with other well knowns, seems like a perfect way to showcase you're on top of things still. And on top of that, apart from promotional value for Duncan, something like this can be extremely useful to someone who's interested in purchasing a PAF. Especially if it's their first PAF. Wonder what they would think if they stumbled upon a shootout like that and read that Duncan declined to participate.
It obviously all makes perfect sense to someone, but not to me. That's okay though.
I surely have respect, but the statement that "there's nothing new and exciting" is a very weird one, to me at least. The reason given for not participating would almost suggest you don't fully stand by your new products.
Apart from the UK there's only one online store in Europe that has WLHs readily available (and only uncovered) and there ain't a lot of vids up there, nor info on how they compare to other pups (apart from the reviews on this forum that is). So it certainly is relatively new and it certainly is exciting (to me at least).
Having your new model featured in a shootout (especially if it were to appear in video format) with other well knowns, seems like a perfect way to showcase you're on top of things still. And on top of that, apart from promotional value for Duncan, something like this can be extremely useful to someone who's interested in purchasing a PAF. Especially if it's their first PAF. Wonder what they would think if they stumbled upon a shootout like that and read that Duncan declined to participate.
It obviously all makes perfect sense to someone, but not to me. That's okay though.
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DreX
New member
Re: Question for Duncan the company
freefrog posted this link http://www.guitarplayer.com/video/gear/3395697489001
I like it, valuable info.
freefrog posted this link http://www.guitarplayer.com/video/gear/3395697489001
I like it, valuable info.
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