recording bass options

[dg27]

I've been recording some bass parts, mainly experimenting to prepare for some projects (and also to justify upgrading to Pro Tools 11.3 :eyecrazy.

I use a SansAmp Bass Driver live and for practice.

For the recordings I've done recently I went direct (Bass --> MBox interface --> Pro Tools) to get as clean and dry a signal as possible. From there I used a SansAmp SVT plugin in PT. I like the results.

Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to bringing the SansAmp into the chain? (Bass --> SansAmp --> MBox interface --> Pro Tools)

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

I like tracking the bass DI and then mult the bass track so I can treat the low freqs separate from the mid/high freqs.

On my last album (you can find the tracks in this forum) I reamped the low bass through a Pigtronix Philosopher's Tone and SansAmp Bass Driver and for the mid/high bass I used the Waves CLA bass plugin.

For the bass bus I like using Steve Slate Revival, Waves NLS, and Waves Rennaisance Bass.

For the next album, I just tracked the bass and got a GREAT DI tone using the Philosopher's Tone into a strymon DECO for tape saturation and then into a Golden Age Pre-73.

My plan is to mult the bass into 4 tracks for this one (sub bass, low, mid/high, and mid/high distorted).

To answer your question directly: I love reamping the DI bass. I love the colourations that the cables and outboard gear add. I would definitley recommend trying it.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

To answer your question directly: I love reamping the DI bass. I love the colourations that the cables and outboard gear add. I would definitley recommend trying it.

I'll try it!

Thanks.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

I recorded going through the SansAmp into my interface (and liked it) and a thought occurred to me as I was plugging in.

I'm wondering whether I can use the SansAmp to split the signal: come out of the parallel output for a clean signal and out of the XLR for a treated signal at the same time.

The manual says:

PARALLEL OUTPUT: 1/4” unbalanced direct output is “hard-wired”
parallel with input jack. Instrument signal passes through, UNEFFECTED, to the
input of your stage amplification system.

BALANCED XLR OUTPUT: Balanced low Z output. Sends effected
or uneffected signal to mixing console/recorder, depending on the orientation
of the Footswitch.

Apologies if this is a really dumb question! Never tried this.

 

[Demanic]

Re: recording bass options

^^
By the sounds of it, you could. The 1/4" is a completely dry unaffected signal. The XLR sends the "wet" depending upon whether you have it on or not. You could treat each signal differently. Can't wait to hear the results.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: recording bass options

Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to bringing the SansAmp into the chain? (Bass --> SansAmp --> MBox interface --> Pro Tools)

Yes.

Advantage #1 - Recording a signal that has already been through the SansAmp saves the CPU drain of running a plug-in.
Advantage #2 - Committing yourself to a specific bass guitar sound narrows down your arrangement/mix options. This should accelerate some of the other decisions that you have to make.

Disadvantage #1 - Committing yourself to a specific bass guitar sound narrows down your options. Once you have "printed", say, a slightly gritty Rick 4001 sound, if it proves too prominent in the arrangement, there would be no easy way to tame it. Not even vigorous EQ.
Disadvantage #2 - The compression in the SansAmp may not be sufficiently controllable across the full frequency range.


Clearly, the most versatile approach is to record treated and untreated signals simultaneously. This way, you have the bass part/sound that you first thought of PLUS the capability to change it completely if necessary.

When I first read through TO's four-way signal split description, I thought it a little over the top. Then, I realised that it is not very far removed from what I sometimes do with the Apple Logic multi-band compressor plug-in.

Part of what I used to like about the sound of recorded bass guitar was due to tape saturation. Literally, a warm and fuzzy feeling. The low end throbbing away and anchoring the rest of a band arrangement.

Dang! This thread is going to cost me money.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

I have often thought about using the parallel out from the SansAmp, but in the end I decided I would rather capture a good DI and reamp it later when I can put on my Engineer cap instead of trying to do both at once and having to wear the Engineer cap as well as the Musican and Producer cap. Simpler, smaller stages just works best for me.

It also depends on how big the project is. For a single song, I may commit to a bass sound right away, but for an entire album, I would rather get the recording done first and worry about the tones later.

There is not right way/wrong way, of course. Depends on your personal work flow, production design/goals, and available time.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

Clearly, the most versatile approach is to record treated and untreated signals simultaneously. This way, you have the bass part/sound that you first thought of PLUS the capability to change it completely if necessary.

I'm simply looking to have two separate tracks for the same performance so I have options later. I generally only bounce till I mix elsewhere later.

Part of what I used to like about the sound of recorded bass guitar was due to tape saturation. Literally, a warm and fuzzy feeling. The low end throbbing away and anchoring the rest of a band arrangement.

I agree--don't know how to capture that though.

There is not right way/wrong way, of course. Depends on your personal work flow, production design/goals, and available time.

I actually didn't know whether it was possible at all.

Thanks, everyone, for weighing in.

I'm going to give this a shot.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

I agree--don't know how to capture that though.

Easiest way is to just use a tape saturation or non linear summing plugin. Most DAWs have a a tape saturation plugin now, or you can get fancy and buy a 3rd party one from Slate, Waves, et al.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

Thanks--I just checked and PT 11 has a Softube saturation knob.

Will have to play around with it.



I've only had PT11 a few days and it's like night and day from the lite versions I've had before...haven't encountered any problems, but there's a s---load of stuff to investigate.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

Yep, that'll do.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

So I've been experimenting with this and like the results result recording one track treated thru the SansAmp and one track dry using the parallel output on the SansAmp. That track tends to give a more accurate flavor from the instrument itself and somehow sounds 'liver.' Combining the two seems to give the best of both worlds.

I've been recording the same part on different basses: My '76 P, my '87 Squier, and my newish Warmoth. All of them have different SD pickup configurations. The weirdest thing is that at least for the track I've been experimenting with (which is just piano and drums), I like how the Squier sounds the best. That surprised me.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

Cool, sounds interesting and I am looking forward to hearing it. I am envious of your many basses, it's nice to have choices in bass tones!

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

Cool, sounds interesting and I am looking forward to hearing it.

It's going to be a soundtrack for a video. Will post a link when it's live.

I am envious of your many basses, it's nice to have choices in bass tones!

I guess I should have been a guitarist: I love modifying my basses except for the really old ones--I may be wrong, but don't think it's as common among bass players.

But with this latest project I never thought that based on a 'blind' test my lowly Squier would win out. It has been pretty heavily modified, but for a $250 eBay purchase I'm very pleased.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: recording bass options

Ha, I hear ya ... I recorded my last 3 albums with a 20 year old Squire Bronco short scale bass that I modded with Stew Mac P bass pickups 2 years ago. Quite a lot of milage from a $150 total investment!!

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

I recorded my last 3 albums with a 20 year old Squire Bronco short scale bass

I haven't tried out my Mustang with this setup at all...that's next.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: recording bass options

sansamp is great for recording direct.
you also have the option of running a dry direct signal too so you get the best of both.

 

[dg27]

Re: recording bass options

That's what I'm doing: regular output with a slight alteration of my preferred settings to one track and the parallel output (dry) to another. (At the start of this string I wasn't sure whether I could do it.)

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: recording bass options

I pretty much always run the bass straight into the mixer inputs, with maybe a chorus or light fuzz once in a blue moon (I like to run bass clean), and record the same exact take on two different tracks, each one panned center. Then I EQ it where it sounds good (usually boosted in the 100-300 Hz range, very SLIGHTLY dipped between 300-500 Hz, and then slightly boosted from 500-1K Hz; the high mids are kept level, and cut the really high frequencies that don't have a lot of information. This is the best way I've found for my music to retain low end, and create a really thick bass sound that sits well, with plenty of room for the guitar. while completely filling out the space between the guitar and drums. But I don't know if you're going for a heavy bass tone.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: recording bass options

Softube saturation knob.

View attachment 60983

This is one area where Apple Logic Pro X is sorely lacking. At the time of this writing, the only option is third party plug-ins.

Right now, I am trying out Airwindows ToTape4. The GUI is very basic, offering five "sliders" to adjust the parameters. So far, I have found TT4 most advantageous for giving drums and percussion back the physical thump associated with intentional tape overload. It seems less convincing on bass guitar but, of course, I probably don't have the parameters set correctly yet.