Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
- Thread starter 75lespaul
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GoMano
Pie Masterologist
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
So far, for me, nothing beats the venerated king, the AKG C-12, into a Neve 1073 strip with an 1176LN in the insert. That sound is just - well, it's like pumpkin pie right out of the oven.
I used to put all kinds of effects on vocals, like an Eventide H3000 (but only very slightly shifted), then stereo tap delay into a 224X; that was my whole vocal chain. I sent the voc's mono but returned the whole mess into two available channles in the console, just so I could actually ride the verb when I mixed and panned the taps left & right (but you couldn't hear them as they decayed into the Lexicon - that was the whole point, and VERY cool.)
I still do that on my SX-1, but I only rarely use reverb on vocals these days, and when I do, I use the stock warm plate sound from a tc Electronics M-One. I'm into that "in your face" vocal sound, although on my wife's tunes in here I think those have tons of verb & delay on them.
If a person can't afford a high-end mic pre, like the Neve strips or an Avalon or what have you - I kid you not, the little Joe Meek Vc3 sounds extremely close to the arrangement I have above (with a good mic) - and it costs only a couple bills. It's fantastic, plus the opto-compressor in it is killer too. I used that arrangement on my own vocals on the "Peace Machine" record (with an MXL FET mic - I think it was the V-67.)
Okay - that's that
So far, for me, nothing beats the venerated king, the AKG C-12, into a Neve 1073 strip with an 1176LN in the insert. That sound is just - well, it's like pumpkin pie right out of the oven.
I used to put all kinds of effects on vocals, like an Eventide H3000 (but only very slightly shifted), then stereo tap delay into a 224X; that was my whole vocal chain. I sent the voc's mono but returned the whole mess into two available channles in the console, just so I could actually ride the verb when I mixed and panned the taps left & right (but you couldn't hear them as they decayed into the Lexicon - that was the whole point, and VERY cool.)
I still do that on my SX-1, but I only rarely use reverb on vocals these days, and when I do, I use the stock warm plate sound from a tc Electronics M-One. I'm into that "in your face" vocal sound, although on my wife's tunes in here I think those have tons of verb & delay on them.
If a person can't afford a high-end mic pre, like the Neve strips or an Avalon or what have you - I kid you not, the little Joe Meek Vc3 sounds extremely close to the arrangement I have above (with a good mic) - and it costs only a couple bills. It's fantastic, plus the opto-compressor in it is killer too. I used that arrangement on my own vocals on the "Peace Machine" record (with an MXL FET mic - I think it was the V-67.)
Okay - that's that
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MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
We've experimented with a few vocal mics, but I think the one we've stuck with for now is the Shure 58 Beta (not the absolute greatest mic in the world, but it does the job very well and won't break the bank).
I like to add a touch of reverb to vocal tracks just to liven them up a bit, especially since digital recording can sound a little dry sometimes. Another experimentation has been to record the mono signal to multiple channels. Keep an unaltered track right down the middle of the mix. Then start playing around with the other tracks, cutting frequencies on the EQ, panning, etc. The goal is to have a set of vocal tracks that is balanced, yet for more complex than a single down the middle vocal track. Done right, the vocals really jump out of the mix and sound like they are all around you. Done wrong, and the vocals are unbalanced and you lose sight of the song by trying to put your finger on what doesn't sound right in the mix. It simply takes a little experimentation.
We've experimented with a few vocal mics, but I think the one we've stuck with for now is the Shure 58 Beta (not the absolute greatest mic in the world, but it does the job very well and won't break the bank).
I like to add a touch of reverb to vocal tracks just to liven them up a bit, especially since digital recording can sound a little dry sometimes. Another experimentation has been to record the mono signal to multiple channels. Keep an unaltered track right down the middle of the mix. Then start playing around with the other tracks, cutting frequencies on the EQ, panning, etc. The goal is to have a set of vocal tracks that is balanced, yet for more complex than a single down the middle vocal track. Done right, the vocals really jump out of the mix and sound like they are all around you. Done wrong, and the vocals are unbalanced and you lose sight of the song by trying to put your finger on what doesn't sound right in the mix. It simply takes a little experimentation.
RW James
New member
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
I use a low end Marshall condensor mic - I'm very happy with the sound.
As for effects - I'm pretty much sticking with 40-50 ms delay with a 100/50 dry/wet mix. I stopped using reverb because it began to sound muddy to me. But then I'm never happy with the sound of my own voice.
I use a low end Marshall condensor mic - I'm very happy with the sound.
As for effects - I'm pretty much sticking with 40-50 ms delay with a 100/50 dry/wet mix. I stopped using reverb because it began to sound muddy to me. But then I'm never happy with the sound of my own voice.
75lespaul
New member
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
I found your band's website--WOW! Great stuff. That was the V67? Sounds like a great mic to me. I got a V63 because it came free with the interface I bought and a V69ME on the way. This was a great post, covering people who have access to studio quality gear AND basement recording guys like me.
I'm going to try the "singing in the bathroom" trick and see what that sounds like. It's a very tiny bathroom but it is tiled from floor to ceiling. Just hope I don't knock the preamp into the tube, hee hee.
GoMano said:
I found your band's website--WOW! Great stuff. That was the V67? Sounds like a great mic to me. I got a V63 because it came free with the interface I bought and a V69ME on the way. This was a great post, covering people who have access to studio quality gear AND basement recording guys like me.
I'm going to try the "singing in the bathroom" trick and see what that sounds like. It's a very tiny bathroom but it is tiled from floor to ceiling. Just hope I don't knock the preamp into the tube, hee hee.
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
ive got a audio-technica at2020 which i use for vocals. it sounds rather nice considering i got it for 100 bucks.....does it sound like a u87, no. but its doesnt sound bad at all. i use a slight reverb very slight, and im experimenting in a shower (for vocals u sickos). a friend of mine has a great shower that is never used, and the vocals seem a little more "alive" in them....
ive got a audio-technica at2020 which i use for vocals. it sounds rather nice considering i got it for 100 bucks.....does it sound like a u87, no. but its doesnt sound bad at all. i use a slight reverb very slight, and im experimenting in a shower (for vocals u sickos). a friend of mine has a great shower that is never used, and the vocals seem a little more "alive" in them....
GoMano
Pie Masterologist
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
Btw - We do all our vocals in the bathroom too; however, DON'T rely on the acoustics in there to be very good. They could actually harm your recording (phase problems occuring as the result of parallel surfaces causing reflections of certain vocal frequencies hitting each other & simultaneously the mic's diaphragm, even reflections off the sink & john can screw it up).
I make the room totally dead by hanging a huge, thick blanket over the shower stall - cover the john, cover the sink and cover the floor with sheets or blankets - leave towels on the racks etc., and use the bathroom only because it's small and can be acoustically treated so easily & efficiently on the fly like that. If it has windows - cover them too by stuffing a blanket into the sofet and/or hanging one in front of it.
If you want acoustic reflections and reverb - add it all later with a plug-in or hardware, of which you can tweak to the appropriateness of it you desire.
PS: My wife just made a PRIMO point; you might think it's silly, but take it to heart: Make sure the sink & shower taps are completely off - even turn off the water supply to the john if it makes noise - and leave your watch in the other room! The mic will pick that stuff up! I can count many sessions where I was bugged by something and later solo'd the track only to find either a "drip - drip - drip" or a "tick - tick - tick" subtly behind the vocals- Seriously!
75lespaul said:
Btw - We do all our vocals in the bathroom too; however, DON'T rely on the acoustics in there to be very good. They could actually harm your recording (phase problems occuring as the result of parallel surfaces causing reflections of certain vocal frequencies hitting each other & simultaneously the mic's diaphragm, even reflections off the sink & john can screw it up).
I make the room totally dead by hanging a huge, thick blanket over the shower stall - cover the john, cover the sink and cover the floor with sheets or blankets - leave towels on the racks etc., and use the bathroom only because it's small and can be acoustically treated so easily & efficiently on the fly like that. If it has windows - cover them too by stuffing a blanket into the sofet and/or hanging one in front of it.
If you want acoustic reflections and reverb - add it all later with a plug-in or hardware, of which you can tweak to the appropriateness of it you desire.
PS: My wife just made a PRIMO point; you might think it's silly, but take it to heart: Make sure the sink & shower taps are completely off - even turn off the water supply to the john if it makes noise - and leave your watch in the other room! The mic will pick that stuff up! I can count many sessions where I was bugged by something and later solo'd the track only to find either a "drip - drip - drip" or a "tick - tick - tick" subtly behind the vocals- Seriously!
Animal
Well-known member
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AKG-C12-C-12...ryZ15198QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:bigeyes2:
GoMano said:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AKG-C12-C-12...ryZ15198QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:bigeyes2:
Robert S.
Super Moderator
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
Currently I sing through an AKG C3000B. It tends to be a little "spitty" on the top end but it EQs out for somewhat human sounding vocals. There's an upgrade on the way once I can clear the cash.
I run the AKG into an Aphex 207 dual channel tube mic pre and then the signal hits a DBX 166xl compressor and a DBX 1231 EQ. I try to get the vocals hot and leveled before they hit the HD and then I keep the plug-ins to a minimum, usually just a little delay and verb to fill things out. Unless its a song that supports effected vocals I try to keep the effects at a level where they make a difference but don't nessessary get picked up by the ears.
Currently I sing through an AKG C3000B. It tends to be a little "spitty" on the top end but it EQs out for somewhat human sounding vocals. There's an upgrade on the way once I can clear the cash.
I run the AKG into an Aphex 207 dual channel tube mic pre and then the signal hits a DBX 166xl compressor and a DBX 1231 EQ. I try to get the vocals hot and leveled before they hit the HD and then I keep the plug-ins to a minimum, usually just a little delay and verb to fill things out. Unless its a song that supports effected vocals I try to keep the effects at a level where they make a difference but don't nessessary get picked up by the ears.
75lespaul
New member
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
I saw that auction. Your little bug-eyed guy had me cracking. Just struck me funny. Pretty much the same way I looked when I saw that auction, but it was only at around $2500 when I saw it. It's over $6000 now.
Hames Jetfield said:
I saw that auction. Your little bug-eyed guy had me cracking. Just struck me funny. Pretty much the same way I looked when I saw that auction, but it was only at around $2500 when I saw it. It's over $6000 now.
S
seafoamer
Guest
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
AKG re-issued the C-12. It's still way up there in price, though. I sang through an original on my first cd. It could've been the chain, but I've since found better mics for my voice.
AKG re-issued the C-12. It's still way up there in price, though. I sang through an original on my first cd. It could've been the chain, but I've since found better mics for my voice.
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
GoMano listed a lot of very good vocal mics, but if you are looking for one mic for many uses it's almost imposible in my book to beat the AKG414 or its derivitives-
First, it's a large diagpham condenser and this is crucial to get good detail on vocals- It does have proximity effect, but this is an effect that good voaclists have learned to use in their favor-
It's also releateively affordable and derivitives like the c3000 are downright inexpensive-
There's a night and day differnce when recording vocals with a dynamic (usually used for stage vocals like sm58) and a large diaghram condensor and once you hear the difference you will ralrely go back- The 414 is also extremely flexible as a room mic, toms, cymbols, etc-
but sm57 and 58 are also very flexible for large SPL opportuniuties so a combination is best-
hope this helps-
GoMano listed a lot of very good vocal mics, but if you are looking for one mic for many uses it's almost imposible in my book to beat the AKG414 or its derivitives-
First, it's a large diagpham condenser and this is crucial to get good detail on vocals- It does have proximity effect, but this is an effect that good voaclists have learned to use in their favor-
It's also releateively affordable and derivitives like the c3000 are downright inexpensive-
There's a night and day differnce when recording vocals with a dynamic (usually used for stage vocals like sm58) and a large diaghram condensor and once you hear the difference you will ralrely go back- The 414 is also extremely flexible as a room mic, toms, cymbols, etc-
but sm57 and 58 are also very flexible for large SPL opportuniuties so a combination is best-
hope this helps-
GoMano
Pie Masterologist
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
Absolutely true! The AKG 414 is probably my overall favorite workhorse/vocal mic. Like Seafoamer said - the AKG C-12 hovers in the $5k range, but AKG 414TL-ll is VERY closely related to the C-12, and if I am not mistaken, it may even use the same capsule! The 414 is easily attainable for $700 (a slightly different FET model, I think) and then about $800 - $1,000 for the C-12 derivative version.
Btw - another killer STEAL of a mic is the Neumann TLM103. That mic is really nice - about a grand. ALL of the RODE condensers are fabulous, although my personal fave, which completely blew me away when I heard it, is the now discontinued NT2. Find one of those used for $200 - $300, BUY IT! The Audio Technica 4047SE is an amazing mic - it DOES sound like early 1950's-era FET microphones. Let's see....Oh, any of the newer SE mic's out of China - amazing! But WAIT! Don't freak! The SE mic's are ACTUALLY totally built there, not just capsules & electronics for other lesser-condenser's offered by otherwise "non-microphone selling entities". No, SE makes killer mics. Just fantastic. The 2200 is like UNDER $200, and the one I heard sounded so good I thought it was the AT4050 on the stand right next to it!
Lastly - if we're getting into relatively low-cost but killer electronics for vocal chains in home studios. Trust me bros: If you don't have a lot of bread and want that 50's / 60's in-your-face-warm-like-pie vocal sound, get the JoeMeek Vc3 Microphone Preamp/Channel Strip. It simply rocks. It's punchier than crap, and the opto-compressor is amazing for the price. If you can swing around $700 or so - I BEG you to check out the SPL Labs "Mike" mic pre, and ANY other thing they make. While producing a certain project in Malibu a while ago I did A/B tests w/"Mike" and a Focusrite RED series pre as well as a Neve 1272 pre, and the SPL sounded just as nice as either of them - punchier than the Neve and NOT as noisy as the RED series Focusrite (which only permits gain increases in steps of 6db at a time - lame!) - It was just waaaay nice.
Yeeesh - I went off - sorry. Just press buttons
zionstrat said:
Absolutely true! The AKG 414 is probably my overall favorite workhorse/vocal mic. Like Seafoamer said - the AKG C-12 hovers in the $5k range, but AKG 414TL-ll is VERY closely related to the C-12, and if I am not mistaken, it may even use the same capsule! The 414 is easily attainable for $700 (a slightly different FET model, I think) and then about $800 - $1,000 for the C-12 derivative version.
Btw - another killer STEAL of a mic is the Neumann TLM103. That mic is really nice - about a grand. ALL of the RODE condensers are fabulous, although my personal fave, which completely blew me away when I heard it, is the now discontinued NT2. Find one of those used for $200 - $300, BUY IT! The Audio Technica 4047SE is an amazing mic - it DOES sound like early 1950's-era FET microphones. Let's see....Oh, any of the newer SE mic's out of China - amazing! But WAIT! Don't freak! The SE mic's are ACTUALLY totally built there, not just capsules & electronics for other lesser-condenser's offered by otherwise "non-microphone selling entities". No, SE makes killer mics. Just fantastic. The 2200 is like UNDER $200, and the one I heard sounded so good I thought it was the AT4050 on the stand right next to it!
Lastly - if we're getting into relatively low-cost but killer electronics for vocal chains in home studios. Trust me bros: If you don't have a lot of bread and want that 50's / 60's in-your-face-warm-like-pie vocal sound, get the JoeMeek Vc3 Microphone Preamp/Channel Strip. It simply rocks. It's punchier than crap, and the opto-compressor is amazing for the price. If you can swing around $700 or so - I BEG you to check out the SPL Labs "Mike" mic pre, and ANY other thing they make. While producing a certain project in Malibu a while ago I did A/B tests w/"Mike" and a Focusrite RED series pre as well as a Neve 1272 pre, and the SPL sounded just as nice as either of them - punchier than the Neve and NOT as noisy as the RED series Focusrite (which only permits gain increases in steps of 6db at a time - lame!) - It was just waaaay nice.
Yeeesh - I went off - sorry. Just press buttons
Wattage
High Voltologist
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
Studio Projects C-1 or a Shure SM58
Run into the board and routed to a bit of tube compression (ART Leveller).
I'll throw a bit of delay and verb in for feel but don't usually record that it generally isn't added until the mix.
Studio Projects C-1 or a Shure SM58
Run into the board and routed to a bit of tube compression (ART Leveller).
I'll throw a bit of delay and verb in for feel but don't usually record that it generally isn't added until the mix.
BoomBoomChild
New member
Re: Recording vocals--favorite mics, tips etc...
Gomano, quite some time ago, maybe even a year or more ago, you posted about how impressed you were when you tried out one of Marshall’s condenser mics, an MXL, but do you remember the exact model it was? I do remember that mic being hard to find after I read your post about it. Also, in reference to your comment about the Joe Meek VC3; have you tried the Joe Meek 3Q, and if so what do you think of it?
I just got a Grace 101 mic pre and am trying to match up a good condenser with it for $500 or less. Thanks!
Gomano, quite some time ago, maybe even a year or more ago, you posted about how impressed you were when you tried out one of Marshall’s condenser mics, an MXL, but do you remember the exact model it was? I do remember that mic being hard to find after I read your post about it. Also, in reference to your comment about the Joe Meek VC3; have you tried the Joe Meek 3Q, and if so what do you think of it?
I just got a Grace 101 mic pre and am trying to match up a good condenser with it for $500 or less. Thanks!
