Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Yeah man, definitely. Just send me an address.

Check PM ...

As far as what you asked me, I am can't answer people anything, even if it's something simple.

I must infer that this is directed to me ... That line frequency question was just idle curiousity as civilian aircraft are set up the same way (if what I read was correct), I was just wondering why, but I understand completely ... say no more ...

Now, what is the advantage of that capacitor hooked to the dpdt?. Is that the treble bleed mod?.

Please don't throw that term *treble bleed* around unless it's correct, in this case it is however (some people use the same term to describe a treble bypass, drives me up the freakin' wall).
That's optional, it's just to make the split humbuckers sound a bit more stratty ... The 102 is just a starting value, go up or down to taste, within say ... roughly +/- 100%. If fine tuning it, try to find some B tolerance caps, at least 200V ceramics (should be real easy to find, don't go below a J tolerance though).

If I understand correctly, the tone pot can be wired to the volume or the jack terminal, correct?.

On one you connect the tone circuit to the same lug as the source (pup), on the other you connect it to the lug that the source is not connected to ( this is referred to as the *'50's wiring* or *'50's mod* ). Check in *the vault* section of the forum, there should be a set of graphs there that I did plotting the results of the two wiring styles. The '50's wiring retains more high end as the volume control is lowered, there is a small trade off in overall tone control range in regard to maximum attenuation levels.

I don't quite get the values of the caps either. I usually see some microfarad value.

Okay Artie, do I get to rag on him for not paying attention to the older subject studies in EE ? :laugh2:
That's three digit picofarad code ... The first two digits are the significant digits and the third is the exponent ... hence 102 is 10 * 10^2 =1,000pF, or 1nF, or .001uF; 223 is 22*10^3 = 22,000pF, or 22nF, or .022uF.
The tolerances you'll run across in guitar use are normally J= +/- 5%, K= +/- 10% ... Small value caps are easy to find in a B tolerance, which if memory serves correctly is like +/- .25pF (I never pay attention that that one anymore, I just use it ... mental blinders I guess).
Also, in this case the capacitor on the tone control can come before or after the pot itself, makes no difference.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

The first two digits are "significant" digits, the third is the number of zero's, in picofarads.

So, 102 = 10 with two zero's, or 1000 pf, which equals 1uf.

Ha Ha, you botched it Artie... :laugh2: Man go get a cup of coffee and come back ... :laugh2: Not awake are we? 1uF? You mean 1nF? Seriously though , I should have read all the replies before posting ...you know *one day* I'm going to actually do that.

 

[Artie]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Ha Ha, you botched it Artie... :laugh2: Mna go get a cup of coffee and come back ... :laugh2: Not awake are we? 1uF? You mean 1nF? Seriously though , I should have read all the replies before posting ...you know *one day* I'm going to actually do that.

You know, whats bad here is, this was the subject of my very first post in this forum. It even got "vaulted", before the first forum crash.

I knew it was nanofarad, but when I looked at the circuit, I second-guessed myself. I need to have more faith in my own knowledge. :smack:

 

[Artie]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

I must infer that this is directed to me ... That line frequency question was just idle curiousity as civilian aircraft are set up the same way . . .

Was this about that 400hz in aircraft thing? I think you asked me this a long time ago, and I completely forgot about it. :smack:

I was gonna ask the engineers at work, (which I'll do Monday), but in the mean time, I'm pretty sure this has to do with mechanical considerations.

Electronics and surveillance aircraft, like the P3 Orion, are prop driven. Those props don't have "throttles" like a car does. They turn at a constant 3600 RPM. Even at idle. The "power" is controlled by hydraulically adjusting the pitch of the prop blades. So, at "idle", they have zero pitch, they're just spinning in the wind.

The actual engine is a turbine, like a small jet engine, with a shaft that drives a gearbox to the prop.

The 400hz comes from the mechanical relationship between the 3600 RPM and the accessory shaft that runs the alternator. I can't nail it down any closer than that, but thats basically where it comes from.

Artie

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

You know, whats bad here is, this was the subject of my very first post in this forum. It even got "vaulted", before the first forum crash.

I knew it was nanofarad, but when I looked at the circuit, I second-guessed myself. I need to have more faith in my own knowledge. :smack:

Second guessing yourself is a good thing, it can save your life at times ...
lack of faith in yourself ... well that's something different ...
Second guessing keeps you aware and honest with yourself and waht you are doing ... :cool3:

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Was this about that 400hz in aircraft thing? I think you asked me this a long time ago, and I completely forgot about it. :smack:

I was gonna ask the engineers at work, (which I'll do Monday), but in the mean time, I'm pretty sure this has to do with mechanical considerations.

Electronics and surveillance aircraft, like the P3 Orion, are prop driven. Those props don't have "throttles" like a car does. They turn at a constant 3600 RPM. Even at idle. The "power" is controlled by hydraulically adjusting the pitch of the prop blades. So, at "idle", they have zero pitch, they're just spinning in the wind.

The actual engine is a turbine, like a small jet engine, with a shaft that drives a gearbox to the prop.

The 400hz comes from the mechanical relationship between the 3600 RPM and the accessory shaft that runs the alternator. I can't nail it down any closer than that, but thats basically where it comes from.

Artie

Cool, I was under the impression that it was for more complex reasons ... I guess the it pays to keep it simple ...cool.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Interestingly enough I just realized that the prop is turning 60Hz.
3600RPM = 60Hz ....so I figure that the gearing must have a 1:20/3 ratio,that would produce 400Hz. ... although assuming that the alternator is three phase ... but a 6 phase would require less RPMs on the rotor shaft ... oh well, lets leave it alone ... :laugh2:

 

[Artie]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Interestingly enough I just realized that the prop is turning 60Hz.
3600RPM = 60Hz ....so I figure that the gearing must have a 1:20/3 ratio,that would produce 400Hz. ... although assuming that the alternator is three phase ... but a 6 phase would require less RPMs on the rotor shaft ... oh well, lets leave it alone ... :laugh2:

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), my own curiosity is now piqued. I just asked 3 engineers, and got 3 completely different answers. Obviously, they don't know either.

I'll get to the bottom of this.

Artie

 

[Artie]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Ok, one of the engineers that really knows his stuff just came and gave me the straight scoop.

Basically, it has to do with weight. Apparently, a 400hz alternator can be built much smaller than a 60hz alternator of the same KVA's. I can't repeat everything he said, but it has to do with the formula for apparent power vs real power, where X sub L and X sub C come into play. 400hz allows a much smaller lead/lag time on the phase angle which results in a smaller discrepancy between real and apparent power.

Kent, I think you know what I'm talking about. I barely do. :laugh2:

 

[Kent S.]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Ok, one of the engineers that really knows his stuff just came and gave me the straight scoop.

Basically, it has to do with weight. Apparently, a 400hz alternator can be built much smaller than a 60hz alternator of the same KVA's. I can't repeat everything he said, but it has to do with the formula for apparent power vs real power, where X sub L and X sub C come into play. 400hz allows a much smaller lead/lag time on the phase angle which results in a smaller discrepancy between real and apparent power.

Kent, I think you know what I'm talking about. I barely do. :laugh2:

Yeah, I got ya, ... I get a little lost too when dealing with maximum power transfer theorems, and real vs apparent power ( don't actually have to use it) ... even though I and V aren't in phase in household AC, they still retain the same relationship (I guess you could say that the phase offest remains constant) ... so there the DC power equation works for most things, but there are other applications in which it becomes a bit more critical (you know that cosine thing). But household stuff is mainly resistive, but you take a network which is prodominately capacitive or inductive, rather than resistive and you can have problems (especially with power resonance) ...
I read a cool article about the power lines one time, and the power transfer of them, kinda cool, don't remember much about it, but cool nonetheless.
Thanks Artie. ... :cool3:

 

[DracoAran]

Re: Schematic for H-H-H, 5 way blade, push/pull coil tap?

Waaaaay over my head.
Anyway, Texas was fun.
I'm still waiting for that schematic to go into the vault. I really think it should. Very useful for a 3 mini humbucker strat.