SD Custom Shop....how long

[darthphineas]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Hi guys,

This one would definitely be a Shop Floor Custom pickup which does take us around 5 - 7 business days to build. Once the pickup is good to go we ship via UPS Ground, unless instructed otherwise by the dealer, and they are on a M - F delivery schedule.

So, when you factor in the loss of weekend days and the possible distance the pickup has to travel it can be two weeks or so.

It's a service we're proud to offer and ultimately accomplishes what our main goal is: taking care of musicians.

Like I said. Floor shop custom. A few weeks, and then there is shipping.

And yes, get pissed at the retailer for the mis-quote on the time frame.

Everything else going on here with the lead wire is the buyers preference, no matter is anyone else thinks its important or not.


Sent from my armored battle station using Tapatalk

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Dude . . . the highest note on an electric guitar is a little less than 1.2k. You're taking this out to 40k!
The portion of your chart relevant to guitar, is between the red lines:

It appears that you're not familiar with harmonics. I posted more info about this in another thread.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

some producers cut guitars in the 8K range when mixing.

Fix'd.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

DreX: ... Sure, our signals can get into the 4K range, but not musically. The highest pitched harmonics and artifacts rarely reach 3K and anything in that range is generally considered unwanted noise,

I just did a spectrum analysis while plucking a note on a guitar, it shows harmonics occurring up to around 17 kHz. All of the harmonics that occur between the fundamental and that highest point are part of what make an electric guitar sound like an electric guitar, they are far from being noise.

which is why most producers cut guitars in the 2K to 2.5K range when mixing.

When we're playing for our own enjoyment, or even in a live setting, what producers do in a studio do is irrelevant.

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

There is also the cutoff frequency of the speaker to consider. Most guitar cabs don't put out much above 5000 hz.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Ive said it before and ill say it again. Not everything that can be measured can be heard.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

There is also the cutoff frequency of the speaker to consider. Most guitar cabs don't put out much above 5000 hz.

From the frequency analysis I did on the pickups, it seems that 5k is enough to deliver the highs that set some pickups apart from others, and I can certainly hear the difference between them. Also note that it's not a hard cut off at 5 kHz, the amplitude just starts to drop off quickly at that point.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Fix'd.

Why? When an electric guitar is played through a cabinet/speakers, those frequencies generally aren't reproduced audibly/accurately. You can "cut" it at 20kHz if you want (or the 17kHz+ range that Drex suggested), but the pros know better.

I just did a spectrum analysis while plucking a note on a guitar, it shows harmonics occurring up to around 17 kHz. All of the harmonics that occur between the fundamental and that highest point are part of what make an electric guitar sound like an electric guitar, they are far from being noise.

When we're playing for our own enjoyment, or even in a live setting, what producers do in a studio do is irrelevant.

Read what I, DarkMatter and Edgecrusher are saying...just because it shows up on a graph doesn't mean you can "hear" it. I also referenced harmonics in my post above. Just because you got a new toy doesn't mean you know how to interpret the results as they apply to the "real world"

P.S. - I'm not telling Mrkensei that he's crazy or that his efforts are completely worthless. After all, everything in a chain adds up to the final result we feel and hear. My point is merely that level of scrutiny he is engaging in is only beneficial in a completely fixed environment where nothing changes. Ever taken an amp from the floor and put it just 1" off the ground on a stand? Totally changes what you "feel" and "hear" and, yet, nothing in the signal path has changed...cables, pickup lead wires, etc. We're all free to "tone chase" as we please, but it can get out of hand when we obsess about it too long. I'm a perfectionist myself and very technically minded, but even I have to admit that there comes a point where the returns are diminishing to the point where the additional time, money and effort is futile.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Read what I, DarkMatter and Edgecrusher are saying...just because it shows up on a graph doesn't mean you can "hear" it. I also referenced harmonics in my post above.

How do you know I can't hear it? Maybe I can.

I'll repeat for you what I replied to edgecrusher: Are you going to tell Mrkensei that he's imagining what he hears when there does appear to be a measurable difference?

Just because you got a new toy doesn't mean you know how to interpret the results as they apply to the "real world"

Yeah, who needs scientific instruments when we've got good old wild guesses?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

That gets to be subjective. Are you going to tell Mrkensei that he's imagining what he hears when there does appear to be a measurable difference?

I redid the measurement with a more narrow frequency window since people were getting all bothered by the fact that that it extended to 40kHz, so here is a less ambitious version:

There is nothing subjective about it. Iam telling you straight out as fact that there are things that can be measured that you cannot hear. Just because you have a graph that shows 2 different things doesnt mean that that is what kensei is hearing. You cannot prove that the trace you see on your graph is what hes hearing. Is it possible? yes. Its it provable? Maybe but certainly not with this data and testing method.

and again just cause you can measure something doesnt mean that you can hear it. In reality human ears are not that sensitive minor changes can easily be missed by them.

Kensei says hes hearing a more open sound with less compression. Now tell me and tell me EXACTLY what does compression look like on your chart? What does "Open" look like on your chart?

 

[richard parker]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

I'm happy to say that I couldn't care less about this issue. My guitars sound good.

 

[CTN]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

How do you know I can't hear it? Maybe I can.

I'll repeat for you what I replied to edgecrusher: Are you going to tell Mrkensei that he's imagining what he hears when there does appear to be a measurable difference?



Yeah, who needs scientific instruments when we've got good old wild guesses?

you're doing it again, DreX.

do you listen to music with scientific instruments or with your ears?

 

[Masta' C]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

How do you know I can't hear it? Maybe I can.

I'll repeat for you what I replied to edgecrusher: Are you going to tell Mrkensei that he's imagining what he hears when there does appear to be a measurable difference?



Yeah, who needs scientific instruments when we've got good old wild guesses?

There are plenty of resources online for you to do some "real" research if you want to expand your knowledge beyond the small box it currently resides in. I think what you're attempting is awesome and I don't want to inhibit your enthusiasm over your new toy and hobby of making graphs, but you have to know how the data applies and some of these things are already known. You just haven't done the appropriate research and, instead, attack those trying to be helpful.

As far as what I would tell Mrkensei, please see my previous posts above.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

There is nothing subjective about it. Iam telling you straight out as fact that there are things that can be measured that you cannot hear. Just because you have a graph that shows 2 different things doesnt mean that that is what kensei is hearing. You cannot prove that the trace you see on your graph is what hes hearing. Is it possible? yes. Its it provable? Maybe but certainly not with this data and testing method.

This is what I said: "I think this is true" I did not say "I know this is true". What I've found is that listening to the differences in pickups is like tasting the differences in wine. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't know what you're listening for in the beginning, but once you hear it, you can't un-hear it.

Kensei says hes hearing a more open sound with less compression. Now tell me and tell me EXACTLY what does compression look like on your chart? What does "Open" look like on your chart?

I don't know what "more open" is supposed to mean, I guess it means more presence/high frequencies? The higher gray line would indicate more treble response. Whether it's audible or not it another matter. I could plug this into an amp instead and listen, I might not hear a difference, but that wouldn't prove that Mrkensei didn't hear a difference, or that you wouldn't, so there's no use in doing that.

This test setup doesn't test for compression, but I wasn't trying to measure that. I never said this graph represents the entirety of what you hear.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

There are plenty of resources online for you to do some "real" research if you want to expand your knowledge beyond the small box it currently resides in. I think what you're attempting is awesome and I don't want to inhibit your enthusiasm over your new toy and hobby of making graphs, but you have to know how the data applies and some of these things are already known. You just haven't done the appropriate research and, instead, attack those trying to be helpful.

It's funny to me that you think it's you who is being attacked, when I'm posting facts, actual measurements, and you're replying with FUD, "fear, uncertainty and doubt", which statements like "just because it shows up on a graph doesn't mean you can "hear" it", nothing specific, just an aspersion towards the measurements. We're in bizarro world.

Some measurable differences in sound are not perceptible to the human ear. Duly noted.

We're all free to "tone chase" as we please, but it can get out of hand when we obsess about it too long. I'm a perfectionist myself and very technically minded, but even I have to admit that there comes a point where the returns are diminishing to the point where the additional time, money and effort is futile.

It's also funny to me to see people on a pickup forum saying that other's should pay such close attention to nuances. You're not the first. People frequently say things about the sound of certain pickups on this forum that I honestly can't hear myself.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

You can't assign the words "I think" to your graphs and "facts" and then criticize anyone else who offers a better informed perspective. "I think" also isn't an out when you're sitting there refuting your "evidence" without knowing how to properly interpret it and apply it. I've watched you (somewhat innocently) spread a lot of misinformation over the past several weeks with your veiled assumptions and half-information in various threads. I truly appreciate your enthusiasm...we've all been there. However, I have also suggested that you put the time in to educate yourself before you try to tangle with those who "know" rather than just "think". I stand by that suggestion.

Sorry if I come off a bit harsh, but you're pushing everyone's buttons.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

I think it is true. I was also curious so just did a test with my new CGR101. The gray line is the frequency by amplitude when the probe is connected to the output jack directly, and the red line is the same, but with a 12" piece of shielded wire that's similar to the four conductor wire (headphone cord) between the guitar and the positive test lead, with the stereo red and white wires tied off at one end, the way you would do a series wiring with 4 conductor cable. So overall that 24" of travel, round trip. The capacitance of the 12" wire appears to (if this test scenario is valid) cause it to peak earlier, higher and dumbs down the trebles past 6 kHz. I believe that would be audible.

View attachment 54192

Wow, this is very interesting. If you don't mind my asking, how did you generate the stimulus into the pickup? Do you have some pictures of the auto-plectrum? What was the calibration process? How many sample runs were averaged to generate each curve?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

You can't assign the words "I think" to your graphs and "facts" and then criticize anyone else who offers a better informed perspective. "I think" also isn't an out when you're sitting there refuting your "evidence" without knowing how to properly interpret it and apply it. I've watched you (somewhat innocently) spread a lot of misinformation over the past several weeks with your veiled assumptions and half-information in various threads. I truly appreciate your enthusiasm...we've all been there. However, I have also suggested that you put the time in to educate yourself before you try to tangle with those who "know" rather than just "think". I stand by that suggestion.

You're speaking in generalities. If I've made specific mistakes in the test process, or if I've failed to mention a shortcoming in the test process, then please point it out directly, don't just say "I've watched you (somewhat innocently) spread a lot of misinformation over the past several weeks", that's nothing more than an accusation if you don't provide specifics.

I say "I think" because it is the truth, I'm not positive that the difference is audible, even if measurable, but it goes to show that Mrkensei might not be imagining things after CTN said

it is total BS.

you are hearing a placebo effect that resides entirely in your head.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

When life hands you constructive criticism...own it

 

[DreX]

Re: SD Custom Shop....how long

Wow, this is very interesting. If you don't mind my asking, how did you generate the stimulus into the pickup? Do you have some pictures of the auto-plectrum? What was the calibration process? How many sample runs were averaged to generate each curve?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Thanks for asking. The CGR 101 has a built in function generator, it goes to an inducer coil I made with a MIM pickup bobbin, wound with 22 AWG enamel wire, about 50 to 100 turns, and then I put some feet on the bottom to stand it on the pickup at a consistent height away from the pickup. The CGR101 software comes with a "network analyzer" mode that sucks, but gets the job done of plotting amplitude to frequency. You set a start frequency, a stop frequency and step size. There is a test input on the inducer and another on the output jack of the guitar, and then it takes about a minute to do the sweep. I've run the test two or three times in some cases, but the results are the same each time, so long as nothing has changed, so there's no need to average multiple runs.