SD Distortion feeling dull

[Aasinsilta]

So, I have an Epiphone SG Special from 2008 in my collection, first guitar. Basswood body, I believe mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard. They've changed the woods since, so that's why I'm not 100% on the neck material's origins. I've upgraded the pickups ages ago to an SD Jazz/Distortion set. I used to really dig the sound of it, but recently I've felt that the Distortion lacks bite. It feels compressed and boomy compared to my other guitars. I play a USACG Strat loaded with a 59/JB through the same amp settings, and it sounds phenomenal.

The pickup is also a tad too hot for my tastes, I like to do volume roll offs to get psuedo cleans, and I have to turn the pickup to 1 or 2 to get that. I believe the pots are 500K, but I will double check. I could slap a JB in there I suppose, but I'd rather have some variety. Any suggestions? I was looking at perhaps a Custom/Custom 5. I play metal mostly to put it simply, but my highest gain tone isn't much beyond say Rust in Peace era Megadeth.

Thanks!

 

[dvanburen]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

distortion should not lack bite or be boomy. Those are not qualities of that pickup. Im not sure whats going on. JB would be a good choice if you want the same flavor as the distortion but dont want the bite or heat from the DD. If you already have a JB and want some variety, try a custom in the bridge. itll go good with that jazz in the neck. the custom wont be as hot as the distortion but will still have bite. itll have a bigger bottom end and be warmer and less cutting. Its a great pickup. the beauty of the custom is that if you dont quite like the sound of it, it will take mag swaps very well. A8 is a good mag for the custom and will sound more organic compared to the ceramic. You could put any alnico mag in the custom with different results and have a variety of sounds. its a cheap and easy way to have essentially multiple pickups with just the custom wind. That would be my suggestion.

 

[CTN]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Yeah, you could try a Custom. It'll be more open, airy and less compresed sounding than the Distortion, but still provide a nice muscular punch.

Of course, the problem might be something more than just electronics. Could be that all the hardware needs to be tightened, reseated or the guitar just needs a good setup to get it playing and sounding better.

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what it is. I am 99% sure the pots are 500K, as the rest of the electronics were also redone when I got the new pickups, so I doubt that's it. I'm thinking it's just the wood. Basswood/mahogany/rosewood are all relatively darker tone woods no, so the Distortion might just be amplifying that. I thought before it might have been my string gauge, as I had been running EB's Skinny Top Heavy Bottoms, but swapped to a set of their regular 10s, still feeling like I'm not getting tone I need. A setup might help, but it's playing fine and keeps tune.

I've never swapped any magnets, so that sounds like a fun way to experiment with tone later on. How do the Custom 5 and Custom Custom compare to it?

 

[dvanburen]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

I'm thinking it's just the wood. Basswood/mahogany/rosewood are all relatively darker tone woods no, so the Distortion might just be amplifying that. I thought before it might have been my string gauge, as I had been running EB's Skinny Top Heavy Bottoms, but swapped to a set of their regular 10s, still feeling like I'm not getting tone I need. A setup might help, but it's playing fine and keeps tune.

distortion in mahogany/rosewood sounds phenominal. That's where that pickup shines. its a cuttiing and bright pickup. the warmer woods tame that and make it sound nice. There is something else going on there.

I've never swapped any magnets, so that sounds like a fun way to experiment with tone later on. How do the Custom 5 and Custom Custom compare to it?

stock Custom sounds better than both. but if its not quite what you want. custom 8 usually does the trick. (custom with an alnico 8 mag). Thats the best custom in my opinion. still warm and sweet sounding from the alnico but has some meat and good sustain and punch like ceramic. best of both worlds. It will do a variety of styles with ease

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll have get the guitar looked at to see if there's something else affecting the tone, and then if that falls through I'll try out the Custom.

 

[CTN]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

The Distortion sounds great in mahogany though. It normally gets thicker, meaner, with more roar in the low-mids. Basswood is pretty similar tonally to mahogany. Rosewood is a a bit warmer than mahogany or basswood, yes, but it also has a really nice musical sounding attack which meshes with the Distortion's present upper mids quite nicely.

In brighter woods like alder or maple it gets more scream in the upper mids.

Regardless, it shouldn't ever sound boomy or loose.

Compared to the Custom, the custom 5 is boomier in the lows, more shrill in the highs and quite severely mid scooped. Excellent clean tones, but the midscoop makes high gain tones cut through like a soggy twig through a boulder (ie it doesn't cut through at all). A slight bit lower output than the Custom also.

The Custom Custom is warm sounding, smooth highs, big chewy mids and loose-ish spongy lows. A bit lower output than the Custom 5. Great for EVH-esque tones, classic rock and the like. Not really my cup of tea for metal though.

The Custom 8 and Custom are more suited to metal. As dvanburen alluded, the C8 is tight in the lows, thick in the low-mids, present but not overbearing in the mids, and smoother in the highs than the regular Custom. Pretty high output, but very musical sounding as well, and versatile enough to handle anything from classic rock to death metal.

 

[Progbusters]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

I took off my Distortion because it was too hot for my already hot Amp, the Orange Jim root. For my cheapo Epi les paul I went with a Custom 5 and it matches the amp's high mids. Its kinda weak with the solo tone but the riffs are pretty good for all metal except DJENT/Death Metal

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

You guys are great for giving me all this info.

I know the Distortion is supposed to be a ripping pickup, the EQ is almost the same as on the JB I love in my mahogany/maple Strat, but I'm just not getting that right now. I was thinking that maybe the ceramic was just giving too much output and making it mushy, maybe such a high output isn't really my style. I'm starting to think though that it might not even be the electronics; I haven't touched them since their professional installation. It could very be that the guitar just has bad wood, maybe it's time to replace it in my lineup :33:

Knowing me though I'll blow more money on pickups first. VH type tones would actually be pretty badass, maybe I'll have to try the Custom Custom first. I'm playing through an Orange Dark Terror myself actually into an orange 2x12 cab, so good to hear the Custom 5 complimented the Jim Root, since they are very similar overall no?

 

[CTN]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

I'd say keep the distortion/jazz set, get a new guitar and put it in that.

Those Epi specials are imo not even worth keeping around once you grow past them.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

First off, welcome to the forum.

Unless you've already changed the pots Id ditch the stockers if you keep the guitar. It wouldn't surprise me if they're not 500k,tolerances aside.

If the distortion sounds dull and you DO have 500k pots you need a different guitar. The high end should have plenty of bite and cut. That said, you won't have the 25.5" scale snap that your USACG has, and Tommy's wood selection is fantastic so your Epi really doesn't stand a chance honestly.

At the end of the day, if you keep it just realize what it is and what it's limitations are.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

The JB is generally darker sounding than the Distortion. I say something is up with the pots or other electric component. Could always try the Black Winter out.

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Would pickup height have a large effect? I just took another look and it's a further away from the strings than I keep my JB, not sure if that would account for the disparity. I'll screw around with that in the morning I suppose. Opening it up the pots are Alpha branded, same as the rotary pickup switch I had installed. Not 100% sure if they are 500k, no values on the bottom, but I doubt my friends at 30th St Guitars (best guitar store in NYC, highly recommended) would have put 250k in for a guitar like this. Also, one of the wires connected to the tone pot has a tiny cut in the shielding. No clue how it got there, never fiddled with it, but if a fault lies with the electronics, I wouldn't be surprised if it ruptured elsewhere internally.

Getting a new guitar looks like a new option, but getting two new ones this summer puts that on hold for a little while. I've never expected it to compete tonally with my USACG, that one gives any high-end Gibson a run for its money. I just want to see how far I can push it, maybe I've hit the limit with it, maybe I haven't.

 

[Inder_Cine_Mann]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

If its already too hot for you then raising it will be worse as far as output

Question, what did you like about it in the first place, as you stated that you used to dig the sound of it?

I also play a Dark Terror. Thru a 2x12 closed back (V30 and G12H30). I run a 10 band EQ in the loop with my mids and upper mids cranked a little, even with brighter PU's so I dunno if a C5 is a really good choice cuz it's so scooped.

Or we both just want different sounds! As was stated before the Custom series is a magnet whore so getting any Custom flavor is never a bad thing

I dunno. Good luck man

Alphas are solid pots btw

 

[Inder_Cine_Mann]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

What about, i dunno, a Distortion with either an A2, A3, A4 or UOA5. Or roughcast something?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

I can't even imagine a DD sounding the way you describe it. Going to a Custom Custom is really going the wrong direction, however.

For the music you say you play, the regular Custom (ceramic magnet) would be a very good choice. For a more organic sound with less shrill in the highs, an A8 mag swap will work wonders.

IMHO, the C8 or the DD with an A2 mag (I've never liked the sound of ceramic mags) are about as good as it gets in an SG (at least with a mahogany body).

 

[Progbusters]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

this similar to how the DD sounds in my Ibanez RG. No that's not me playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDyy2Mqk-Q

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Try raising the pickup and see how it works out for you. Also try raising the screw side polepieces a bit and that should let the high end come through a bit more.

 

[dvanburen]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

What about, i dunno, a Distortion with either an A2, A3, A4 or UOA5. Or roughcast something?

Im thinking, if he needs to resort to that then he just needs a new pickup. I say that because I honestly believe that a DD sounds best with the big ceramic mag. everything else (a5, a8, ceramic in my experience) just sounds thin and lifeless compared to the big ceramic. That pickup was made for the big ceramic and its a good choice so if that doesnt work, and the Jb doesnt work, then the custom is the way to go. Custom 8 preferably. and if all these efforts dont work then yes, a new guitar is in order because I dont know what will work if these suggestions dont..

 

[Aasinsilta]

Re: SD Distortion feeling dull

Well, raising it and running it through a TubeScreamer helped it out a ton, has more of the bite I remember it having. Boomy was probably the wrong word to describe how it sounded; it had more bass to it than I like, but wasn't "boomy." I couldn't get the polepieces to loosen up though, so I left those alone. The guitar sounds much better, maybe not my favorite tone of my guitars, but much better nonetheless. I can work it. My other guitars all feature brighter woods, maple, ebony, walnut, or alder, so my might've grown biased more towards the brighter end of the spectrum.

Why would a Custom Custom be the wrong direction? It has less bass in its EQ which I think would help.

That tone in the Charvel video isn't my cup of tea, but then the one with the JB in the HS model is even worse IMO, so go figure.

Thanks again guys for all the help!