set neck vs bolt-in neck

[Hagbard Celine]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

"The only reason some Fenders are outstanding guitars is that some time in the last 50 years Fender started employing actual luthiers."

When was that? Those wonderful 50's Fenders? But you said Had they continued the way they had in the 60s, today they´d be on par with Squiers and SX at best." So they had "actual luthiers" and got rid of them?

I think you are overstating your case and it reflects your point of view as a person with a vested interest in the subject. Hard to get perspective from that close. I may not be an expert but the guy who was my best friend as a kid and the best man at my wedding 29 years ago ( WARNING - GEEZER ALERT) - when he was already making and repair guitars as a second generation luthier - was much more generous than you the last time I talked to him and the subject came up. He expressed amazement at the overall quality of lower level instruments such as MIM Fenders and praised their manufacturing methods rather than chalking up the successes as "luck" as you have over and over.

Come on, the Sherpa roadie thing was a little funny wasn't it? Wasn't it? Chirp, chirp... FWIW your comments are laced with references to "Average Joes" and other somewhat dismissive and demeaning references to others you don't deem as worthy as your esteemed self. As they say, "An ounce of pretense is worth a pound of manure." So my advice - unsolicited as it is - is to take yourself a little less serious and try a little humility. Maybe, just maybe your's is not the degree of final word you think. Think about it.

Peace and love and always growing :scratchch:approve:

 

[J Moose]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Yes, and I don´t consider a Fender slapped together from random prefabricated parts with a 1mm gap around the neck pocket to be a quality guitar either. Fender was designed from the get go to be the ak47 of guitars: cheap and fast to manufacture with acceptable results (note the word "acceptable", a word that when translated from engineer to luthier means substandard but playable). There was never the intent of giving people a high quality instrument, but mass producing as many as possible so as to get as much out of the 50s electric instrument craze as possible.

The only reason some Fenders are outstanding guitars is that some time in the last 50 years Fender started employing actual luthiers. Had they continued the way they had in the 60s, today they´d be on par with Squiers and SX at best.

What are you smoking over there?

I wasn't around in the 50's (and neither were you...) but it seems to me, from what I've read that Leo Fender & company cared very much about the quality of the instruments being made & were always seeking input from actual players.

The Strat & Tele weren't cheap guitars by any means... the 'starter' instruments were things like Duo-Sonics.

And lets face facts... Fenders "golden period" was the early & mid 1960's... even late '60s to a degree. It's the CBS '70s guitars with 12 pound bodies and 1/8" neck pocket gaps that are considered dogs. If they had kept on like they had in '65 or '66 then maybe the '70s guitars would have STILL been great instruments & just as revered as those earlier decades.

Who knows.

Not that I'm a vintage nut by any stretch...

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

I think the truth betwixt the two.

Clearly Fender have knocked out a goodly number of very fine instruments.

Equally clearly they don't match necks to bodies and individually rout the neck pocket for a guaranteed interference fit, which is (I would venture to suggest) undeniably the best approach. I'm not sure there are many mass producers who do that though!

That said, if their manufacturing is to good enough tolerances it probably doesn't much matter. I do remember reading guitar mag reviews (not necessarily of Fender) mentioning only being able to get a cigarette paper in the gap between neck and pocket. At that point it might as well be half an inch...

 

[Zerberus]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

I just noticed something... part of the reason for some of the posts being the way they are was a typo :chairfall:laugh2:

The only reason some Fenders are outstanding guitars is that some time in the last 50 years Fender started employing actual luthiers. Had they continued the way they had in the 60s, today they´d be on par with Squiers and SX at best.

I meant to type 50s, and that is of course much more realistic :laugh2:

And Sporky makes a point I maybe should have clarified earlier. What is the tonal difference between a slip of paper all the way around the neck and a 1/4" gap? The only thing contacting wood in either case is the bottom of the neck

 

[El CHupacabra]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Christ someone takes themselves too seriously.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

^I prefer the old Avatar to this one. This one just looks... evil.

And Zerb, no need to hate on Fender. Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, JImme & Stevie Ray, Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, Sonny Landreth, Hendrix and every satisfied Fender customer (myself included) can't all be luck.

OMFG, did you just disapprove of my avatar, rate yourself next to a bunch of legendary guitarists and then decree that someone else takes themselves too seriously all in the same thread?!

i know you're young dude, but christ.

 

[phil_104]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

You mean......

..... there is a debate on the production methods and quality of a guitar company.......

....... and this thread ISN'T about Gibson???????.......

....weird........

(please resume....)

 

[uOpt]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Never blame somebody for coming up with a design that is simple and effective and works great.

Besides, the tremolo with the sustain block is a much better piece, and a guitarist's piece compared to the Bigsby and Maestro, which are engineer's solutions without really thinking about sound and feel.

 

[tonedeaf1]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

In a Guitar World article, it said that when Carlos Santana was looking for more sustain back in the day, he went to Mesa-Boogie to have them build an amp that would give him more sustain. If he tried to get more sustain from a guitar, the article didn't mention it.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

And Sporky makes a point I maybe should have clarified earlier. What is the tonal difference between a slip of paper all the way around the neck and a 1/4" gap? The only thing contacting wood in either case is the bottom of the neck

Indeed.

Though I've now thought of a difference - assuming that you're using relatively unskilled assembly labour then being 1/16th of an inch out is still better than being 1/4 of an inch out because the neck will be better aligned to the pickups and (more importantly) to the bridge.

 

[fairytale]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

the neck and body pocket need to have a good tight fit, remove any residue of lacquer, polisher or glue, tighten the bolts well by hand and you are done.

fixing a neck pocket that is too big will often result in a partial refin, so beware...

check out set in-bolted systems on PRS and FRAMUS guitars. regards, fairytale

 

[uOpt]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

the neck and body pocket need to have a good tight fit, remove any residue of lacquer, polisher or glue, tighten the bolts well by hand and you are done.

fixing a neck pocket that is too big will often result in a partial refin, so beware...

check out set in-bolted systems on PRS and FRAMUS guitars. regards, fairytale

Of course, ripping out all kinds of things from the sides of the neck pocket will replace them with air.

It is questionable whether that is an improvement.

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Onyx Forge Bullet

Is this a neckthru, or something else completely different? (It's one big slab o' wood)

Jason

 

[tone4days]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Onyx Forge Bullet

Is this a neckthru, or something else completely different? (It's one big slab o' wood)

Jason

man i'd love to give that a spin, both unplugged and through a boogie mk iv

thats a lot of maple .. but one solid piece of tree shaped into a guitar ... i am not sure what i'd expect ...

come to think of it ... when you think about how many flame maple tops he mightve gotten outta that slab, i bet he lost money making that guitar

also makes me wonder why he didnt save a slice of scrap for the cavity cover

and makes me wonder how stable the neck is gonna be without an adjustable truss rod (i cant see an access hole for one, am i missing it?)

 

[Zerberus]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Onyx Forge Bullet

Is this a neckthru, or something else completely different? (It's one big slab o' wood)

Jason

It is, as the website states, a one piece guitar. No neck joint at all

Theoretically ideal, but economically usually unfeasible due ti the size of the blank required. This may seem self contradiictory, because you theoretically can buy a few board feet of lumber anywhere, say mahogany. But mahogany is not automatically = tone wood, and 2 board feet of tone wood are not necessarily adjacent to each other in on the same log.

In other words, finding that much tonewood is easy. Finding that much tonewood as a single chunk big enough for an instrument is far from it

 

[ganzosrevenge]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

It is, as the website states, a one piece guitar. No neck joint at all

Theoretically ideal, but economically usually unfeasible due ti the size of the blank required. This may seem self contradiictory, because you theoretically can buy a few board feet of lumber anywhere, say mahogany. But mahogany is not automatically = tone wood, and 2 board feet of tone wood are not necessarily adjacent to each other in on the same log.

In other words, finding that much tonewood is easy. Finding that much tonewood as a single chunk big enough for an instrument is far from it

Yea. I've seen that, I've also seen a jackson where the entire neckthru was one big piece of flame maple with mahogany wings. I would assume that that would be a close second, although another method that's not terribly easy to find. Tonewood that big isn't that common.

T4D... the neck, the body, all one big piece. Idk how you'd adjust it either.

Jason

 

[scottish]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

ive just read this whole thread for the first time since it was resurrected. while a lot of the arguments made in this thread may have been valid at one point in time...

dont you think that modern day production and technology has advanced to the stage where neck gaps are no longer really an issue? i would say at least 90% of the strats i have picked up in a guitar center or laid hands on in general in the last 5 years or so have not had anything resembling a gap in the neck pocket. in fact, most of them have had very nice, snug fitting necks.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

I have a custom guitar made out of 1 piece Wenge, and 6 carbon stripes to reinforce the neck. The sound is very "strong" compared to my Bolt-on Ibanez or Neck-thru Peavey. The sustain is there, but the loudness is somehow different.
It was made out of 1 piece wenge, and the grain runs a wave like form from the tip to the end.
The sound is big, loud and punchy, The attack is between Bolt-on and Neck-thru. The weight and the density of the Wenge makes it good for sustain and low-mids. But it lacks some High-mid punch. It's an 8 string Kelly style guitar, so the dynamics might be different than a Strat model.

 

[kramer.geetar]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

I dunno about this whole sustain and tone thing, its sometimes comical with certain people. I mean if you're looking for the maximum then yea sure get a bolt on tighter then a 18yr old virgin and a hard tail, or set-neck, whatever but sometimes you have these people who are so picky about sustain and tone and what not and want this and that in their guitar, pickups hard mounted to the body, etc....and then install a floating Floyd! and to me thats like, well why go through all that trouble in the first place and then have that type of a bridge setup? I love Floyds, I have them on all my guitars but they're all flush mounted sitting on the body. I dunno to me its just funny thats all.

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: set neck vs bolt-in neck

Bolt on necks have a reputation of sounding a certain way because largely what people judge them by are Fenders. When you play a guitar with a bolt-on mahogany neck you'll quickly change your mind. The sound we typically associate with bolt-ons can be attributed much more to the maple neck and longer scale length than to the neck joint.