Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

[Knightrich]

Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

I just got an Epiphone Dot and while it’s a great guitar, just like a lot of people say, the pickups are pretty muddy and lack definition. I have read tons online, this site included, on the differences between the Seth Lovers and the ‘59s but want to ask specifically if anyone can make a recommendation for a Dot running through a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. Another thing I’m curious about, is adding a push/pull pot to have an out of phase option in the middle. I saw a video of JD Simo and “Red” and that tone was great! If it helps, I have also listed the tones that I am looking for.

Favorite Tones:
Sticky Fingers-Rolling Stones: The fills on “Dead Flowers”, the solo on “Can’t you hear me knockin”, all that stuff.

Round Room-Phish: I don’t listen to them a lot now but I always really liked the sound of Trey’s guitar on this album, particularly “Mock Song”. If I had one complaint, it’s that the bridge is a bit sharp at times with his tone in general but I think he uses the ‘59s.

Youth and Young Manhood-Kings of Leon: Love the rock tones and the edge of breakup sounds they work with a lot on this album.

I don’t play metal but I do have concerns about the feedback from unpotted pickups but I have also read to not worry about it. Can anyone with a similar set up recommend one of these two pickup sets over the other? I am open to alternatives, too. I don’t know if there is a specific pickup I’d need to have the out of phase option (4 lead vs 1), etc.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Welcome to the forum!

I love the Seth Lovers in any semi hollow- like 2 big sticks of butter! A great, less-vintage option is a Jazz in the neck and 59 in the bridge.
A 2 conductor pickup can do the phase thing. Also, as far as the potting, unless you use tons of preamp gain at a loud volume, there is no need to worry. The fact that Seths are unpotted contribute to their touch-sensitivity, and that is a great thing.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Do you know if both pickups have to be 2 conductor to do the out of phase option? I played a couple of guitars recently with the Jazz neck and I really liked the clarity but they almost felt like single coil pickups. Not bad at all just more modern sounding I think. Seems like I’m leaning towards the Seth Lovers!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Well, generally, with humbuckers, you either have 2 or 4 conductor. Out of phase just needs 2 at least.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Ok I see. Looks like the SLs are single conductor. I could order them custom I suppose. Do you think the 59s are boomy in the neck? I see people complain they are too bassy but it also seems they are in Les Pauls when I see that issue.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

No, there are 2 wires...the outside braided wire is the shield (ground) and coming through the middle of that is a black wire, the hot.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

correct but you cant wire that setup reverse phase without adding a separate ground wire. if you want to flip phase, get the 4 cond option. i have a set of 4 cond seths that i really like.

if it were me, id get a pair of 4 cond seths but im an alnico 2 magnet bucker junkie. if you find a set of 4 cond 59's for cheap you can always swap magnets easily and cheaply if you find the stock a5 doesnt suit you

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

I saw that Sweetwater has the 4 conductor pickups individually for $129 which isn’t awful. Do both pickups need to be 4 wire in order to do the out of phase?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

nope, just one

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Seths are lower output, middier/juicier, and over all clearer, despite being more warm. They can easily be adjusted to sound like '59's, but e.q.ing '59's to sound like Seths is harder.

The '59's are a stronger and stiffer/colder sounding set of pickups.

If you know how to tweak your amp well, either one could do Sticky Fingers tones for you. But I would lean toward the Seths, as a lower output pickup is more versatile. It can easily be made to sound like a stronger pickup, but going the other way can prove difficult.

P.S. The "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" solo is Mick Taylor on the neck pickup of a walnut 345 (or maybe 335 - I forgot), which would have had T-Tops or pre T-Tops in it. Probably Fender Twin Reverb cranked up a bit. That's P.E. wire, short A5, about 7.5 KOhm. A Seth neck through a Deluxe Reverb will get mighty close! It's one of the greatest guitar tones ever recorded IMO. Mick Taylor mainly played that guitar and an early SG then, though he did have a Strat too (which was used on "Brown Sugar"). Not sure if he had his LP Deluxe yet for Sticky Fingers.

 

[justFred]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Seth's are great...AP IIs are also a good choice and they com 4C auto...

 

[Jeffblue]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Seth Lovers are excellent pickups.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Ok great! Looks like it’s just a $15 difference so I may as well get both 4 conductor.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

I agree that is one of the greatest tones. It’s warm and you can hear the amp being pushed. So he would have had Alnico 5 magnets in his Gibson? Sounds like the Seths are the way to go.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check those out, too.

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Seths are lower output, middier/juicier, and over all clearer, despite being more warm. They can easily be adjusted to sound like '59's, but e.q.ing '59's to sound like Seths is harder.

The '59's are a stronger and stiffer/colder sounding set of pickups.

If you know how to tweak your amp well, either one could do Sticky Fingers tones for you. But I would lean toward the Seths, as a lower output pickup is more versatile. It can easily be made to sound like a stronger pickup, but going the other way can prove difficult.

P.S. The "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" solo is Mick Taylor on the neck pickup of a walnut 345 (or maybe 335 - I forgot), which would have had T-Tops or pre T-Tops in it. Probably Fender Twin Reverb cranked up a bit. That's P.E. wire, short A5, about 7.5 KOhm. A Seth neck through a Deluxe Reverb will get mighty close! It's one of the greatest guitar tones ever recorded IMO. Mick Taylor mainly played that guitar and an early SG then, though he did have a Strat too (which was used on "Brown Sugar"). Not sure if he had his LP Deluxe yet for Sticky Fingers.

Has anyone tried pairing a 59 neck with a Seth Lover bridge? I keep hearing demos of the 59 neck and it sounds good!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

I think a 59 in the neck tends to do better with a 59 in the bridge, due to the tight lows (which the Seth doesn't have).

 

[blueman335]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

As someone who's put both in 335 type guitars: Seth's are great. Rich open tones.

'59N's can have have the same problem they sometimes do in LP's: being bassy/boomy in some individual guitars. I put a '59N in a Sheraton and it was very boomy. A solution some members do for that is putting in an A4 magnet to take out some of the low end. For some of us, '59B's are pretty bright and thin. I like them MUCH better with an UOA5 magnet, which gives them a richer tone, more mids, and takes off the excess treble. For me, '59's are very good, but not with the stock magnets. BTW, I've never swapped magnets in a Seth.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Has anyone tried pairing a 59 neck with a Seth Lover bridge? I keep hearing demos of the 59 neck and it sounds good!

I would go the other way: 59B with a SethN - much more versatile IME

 

[Knightrich]

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

Re: Seth Lovers vs ‘59s Epiphone Dot through DRRI

As someone who's put both in 335 type guitars: Seth's are great. Rich open tones.

'59N's can have have the same problem they sometimes do in LP's: being bassy/boomy in some individual guitars. I put a '59N in a Sheraton and it was very boomy. A solution some members do for that is putting in an A4 magnet to take out some of the low end. For some of us, '59B's are pretty bright and thin. I like them MUCH better with an UOA5 magnet, which gives them a richer tone, more mids, and takes off the excess treble. For me, '59's are very good, but not with the stock magnets. BTW, I've never swapped magnets in a Seth.

The boominess is something I was worried about for sure so if you’ve had that issue as well that definitely pushes me towards the Seth’s. Sounds like a can’t go wrong option either way. Thanks so much for telling me about your experience with the Dot. I can read these forums all day but it’s always helpful with specific advice.