seymour duncan output specs

Re: seymour duncan output specs

I've been trying to find an answer to this but haven't so far. I figured this thread was a good place to ask since it's relevant.

Can anyone provide an accurate interpretation of the rainbow-colored bar output indicator? Some are short but turn to red while others are longer and may only turn to orange. I thought they might be related to DC resistance but I'm not seeing consistency there. Maybe something to do with dynamic range?
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

This is what you are looking for (in order of mV output...low to high):

SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-4 JB Model 737
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

Sorry guys, that doesn't answer my question, at least not directly. Perhaps it might indirectly, by I haven't been able to decipher it.

As far as voltages go, if they don't take human loudness perception into account (and while the linked discussion includes Fletcher-Munson, it does not account for how the ear interprets dynamic signals, BTW), then they're far from definitive.

To repeat, my question was about color progression and the length of the bar.
 
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Re: seymour duncan output specs

You're not going to get an answer to that. "Human loudness perception" is ambiguous at best. mV and DCR are the only consistent and definable terms that can be reasonably applied.
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

Loudness perception has been well understood for over 50 years. It is not in any way ambiguous.

However, my question is about something different altogether.
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

Output? Usually ohms is a good enough estimate, since the guitar gets wired into an amp and essentially becomes part of the circuit. Just my 2 cents anyways. More resistance = more power usually.

... Which is counterintuitive to say the least; in most circuits, higher resistance means lower current (I = V/R).

What's happening here is that the DC resistance is a stand-in for the total amount of wire wrapped around the polepieces, and thus for the strength of the pickup as an inductor. More inductance means the vibrating string within the magnet's field produces more current in the coil and thus more signal.
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

Loudness perception has been well understood for over 50 years. It is not in any way ambiguous.

However, my question is about something different altogether.

No it's not. You're just not getting the right combination of information you think you want.

The problem is that what ultimately determines the perceived loudness level of the pickup is a combination of practically every variable that exists in the complete instrument as well as the listener, and many of these variables are interdependent in ways that are difficult to define.

First off, the strength of the magnet used in the pickup matters. A stronger magnet will increase the magnetic flux produced by the string vibrating within the magnet's field, and that produces a higher voltage through the wire coils around it forming the inductor. However, a stronger magnetic field will also "pull" harder on the strings themselves, dampening them and reducing sustain. Ceramic magnets have the potential to be the strongest magnets typically used in guitars, but they can also be the weakest by far, which is why they're seen on boutique builders' highest-output pickups as well as cheap stock coils. Alnico-5 magnets are the strongest "standardized" magnets typically used, followed by Alnico-8, -4 and -2.

Second, the shape and size of the pickup poles matters. The polepieces, in contact with the magnet underneath, "shape" the magnetic field to provide more or less strength in various areas of the pickup. Rail-type pickups have a fairly uniform magnetic field, while separate polepieces create little mini-magnets right under each string. This changes how each string varies the magnetic field with its vibration and thus produces the signal. Rails capture practically everything that happens above them, and so produce a more "accurate" tone based on the actual vibration of the string. Separate polepieces exaggerate the fundamental motion of the string and de-emphasize higher harmonics, and are capable of slightly higher output. In general, the more magnetized metal inside the coil, the stronger the output.

Third, the number of windings around the polepieces, and the volume those windings take up, matters. DC resistance is most directly a stand-in for the total length of wire and thus the number of windings wrapped around the polepieces. This defines the output and tone of the pickup in several key ways. The more windings there are, the more wire there is coiled around the magnet, within which the magnetic field changes induce voltage and current. This directly impacts the output of the pickup. However, the more windings there are, the more wire there is, and that increases DC resistance which reduces current flow and thus output across all frequencies. Also, the more coils there are, the higher the pickup's inductive reactance, and inductive reactance presents higher impedance (resistance to AC current flow like audio signals) to higher frequencies. That ultimately means a pickup with more windings produces more overall output concentrated in the midrange frequencies, as low and high frequencies are attenuated to offset the overall output increase. In addition, different gauges of wire can be used. The thicker the wire, the lower the DC resistance per foot, however the more volume it will take up around the bobbin, and so coils further from the magnetic field will be affected less (magnetic strength, like most forces, follows the inverse-square law; the strength of the force decreases on the square of distance, so small changes in distance matter quite a bit). So, given the same number of windings, a pickup wound with slightly thicker wire will have slightly lower output, more lows, about the same highs.

The number of coils in one pickup obviously matters. Humbuckers have a little less than double the wire of single coils, double the magnets/polepieces, etc, so they produce more output, but the magnetic field is broader, so shorter-wavelength harmonics act over different regions of the pickup and are cancelled out. Single-coil pickups thus tend to sound brighter and more articulate than humbuckers because their magnet and coil captures the vibrations of the string with less innate cancellation.

The placement of the pickup also obviously matters. Pickups closer to the middle of the string get much more of the fundamental frequency and more overall output (because they are over the portion of the string moving the most), while pickups closer to the bridge get more higher harmonics and less output because they're closer to the tethered end. Pickups intended for bridge placement are typically "hotter" to compensate for this, increasing their output while attenuating the highest harmonics.

Those are just the variables inherent in the pickup itself, with the most direct effect on the pickup's perceived loudness when installed in the same position on the same guitar and played by the same person through the same amp at the same gain/volume settings. The pickup that will sound loudest is the pickup that produces the highest output in mV after compensating its resonant peak (ideally the entire response curve) to the human equal-loudness curve. A pickup producing 3V peak output at a 6kHz resonant peak is not going to sound as loud as a pickup producing half the output with a resonant peak closer to 3-4k (the average peak of human hearing sensitivity).

Therefore, the two most fundamental measurements for perceived output are output in mV and resonant peak in Hz/kHz. If you don't have these, you're just guessing in a comparison between any two coils for relative output. Even then, output is just one variable in the overall sound of the pickup; the traditional passive guitar circuit is essentially an RLC band-pass filter circuit. You can nudge the actual resonant peak one way or the other by changing the capacitor and pot values in the tone circuit. The higher the pot value, the sharper the peak (at full tone of course), while the higher the capacitor value, the lower the frequency of the peak.
 
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Re: seymour duncan output specs

Liko, that was quite a good description, in layman terms, of the main forces at play and their interaction in a magnetic p'up.

Hat's off! :bowdown:
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

I hope so because the previous reply isn't at all what I was asking for. Then again I should have started another topic as I don't feel it's appropriate to point out whether any specific reply is relevant to my specific question.

No it's not.
Yes, it certainly is.

Here are three output indicators for bridge pickups showing different lengths and different colors...
untitled.PNG

Does anyone have an accurate explanation?
 
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Re: seymour duncan output specs

Here are three output indicators for bridge pickups showing different lengths and different colors...
View attachment 69106

Does anyone have an accurate explanation?

The length is what counts most; pickup 1 is the highest-output, followed closely by 3, then 2. The color variation in the gradients is because different methods of generating the gradients were used at different times as pickups were added to the website and/or the site content was redesigned.

The top one was created by generating the gradient across the full length of the meter, then cutting it back to a width representative of the output level. That makes the color-coding a little more useful, as the relative output of a single pickup compared to the rest of SD's offerings can be identified by looking at the color at the end of the bar. The other two were created by defining the width of the bar first and then generating the full color gradient within that width. That doesn't make as much sense and requires more side-by-side comparison, so they changed the the method you see in the first bar. The bars would mean exactly the same thing if they were all a solid color.

I confused you for the OP. Honest mistake. In context, the two answers between your question and the response I quoted were very likely not intended as an answer to your question. They contain hard numbers that the OP was looking for, and did not quote your post which would indicate they're trying to answer your separate question. In any case, with a list of hard numbers you can make objective comparisons between the outputs of two or more pickups without having to rely on graphic representations at all.
 
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Re: seymour duncan output specs

No it's not. You're just not getting the right combination of information you think you want.

The problem is that what ultimately determines the perceived loudness level of the pickup is a combination of practically every variable that exists in the complete instrument as well as the listener, and many of these variables are interdependent in ways that are difficult to define.

First off, the strength of the magnet used in the pickup matters. A stronger magnet will increase the magnetic flux produced by the string vibrating within the magnet's field, and that produces a higher voltage through the wire coils around it forming the inductor. However, a stronger magnetic field will also "pull" harder on the strings themselves, dampening them and reducing sustain. Ceramic magnets have the potential to be the strongest magnets typically used in guitars, but they can also be the weakest by far, which is why they're seen on boutique builders' highest-output pickups as well as cheap stock coils. Alnico-5 magnets are the strongest "standardized" magnets typically used, followed by Alnico-8, -4 and -2.

Second, the shape and size of the pickup poles matters. The polepieces, in contact with the magnet underneath, "shape" the magnetic field to provide more or less strength in various areas of the pickup. Rail-type pickups have a fairly uniform magnetic field, while separate polepieces create little mini-magnets right under each string. This changes how each string varies the magnetic field with its vibration and thus produces the signal. Rails capture practically everything that happens above them, and so produce a more "accurate" tone based on the actual vibration of the string. Separate polepieces exaggerate the fundamental motion of the string and de-emphasize higher harmonics, and are capable of slightly higher output. In general, the more magnetized metal inside the coil, the stronger the output.

Third, the number of windings around the polepieces, and the volume those windings take up, matters. DC resistance is most directly a stand-in for the total length of wire and thus the number of windings wrapped around the polepieces. This defines the output and tone of the pickup in several key ways. The more windings there are, the more wire there is coiled around the magnet, within which the magnetic field changes induce voltage and current. This directly impacts the output of the pickup. However, the more windings there are, the more wire there is, and that increases DC resistance which reduces current flow and thus output across all frequencies. Also, the more coils there are, the higher the pickup's inductive reactance, and inductive reactance presents higher impedance (resistance to AC current flow like audio signals) to higher frequencies. That ultimately means a pickup with more windings produces more overall output concentrated in the midrange frequencies, as low and high frequencies are attenuated to offset the overall output increase. In addition, different gauges of wire can be used. The thicker the wire, the lower the DC resistance per foot, however the more volume it will take up around the bobbin, and so coils further from the magnetic field will be affected less (magnetic strength, like most forces, follows the inverse-square law; the strength of the force decreases on the square of distance, so small changes in distance matter quite a bit). So, given the same number of windings, a pickup wound with slightly thicker wire will have slightly lower output, more lows, about the same highs.

The number of coils in one pickup obviously matters. Humbuckers have a little less than double the wire of single coils, double the magnets/polepieces, etc, so they produce more output, but the magnetic field is broader, so shorter-wavelength harmonics act over different regions of the pickup and are cancelled out. Single-coil pickups thus tend to sound brighter and more articulate than humbuckers because their magnet and coil captures the vibrations of the string with less innate cancellation.

The placement of the pickup also obviously matters. Pickups closer to the middle of the string get much more of the fundamental frequency and more overall output (because they are over the portion of the string moving the most), while pickups closer to the bridge get more higher harmonics and less output because they're closer to the tethered end. Pickups intended for bridge placement are typically "hotter" to compensate for this, increasing their output while attenuating the highest harmonics.

Those are just the variables inherent in the pickup itself, with the most direct effect on the pickup's perceived loudness when installed in the same position on the same guitar and played by the same person through the same amp at the same gain/volume settings. The pickup that will sound loudest is the pickup that produces the highest output in mV after compensating its resonant peak (ideally the entire response curve) to the human equal-loudness curve. A pickup producing 3V peak output at a 6kHz resonant peak is not going to sound as loud as a pickup producing half the output with a resonant peak closer to 3-4k (the average peak of human hearing sensitivity).

Therefore, the two most fundamental measurements for perceived output are output in mV and resonant peak in Hz/kHz. If you don't have these, you're just guessing in a comparison between any two coils for relative output. Even then, output is just one variable in the overall sound of the pickup; the traditional passive guitar circuit is essentially an RLC band-pass filter circuit. You can nudge the actual resonant peak one way or the other by changing the capacitor and pot values in the tone circuit. The higher the pot value, the sharper the peak (at full tone of course), while the higher the capacitor value, the lower the frequency of the peak.

My head hurts. :bigeyes:
 
seymour duncan output specs

That makes sense.

Oh yeah. The biblical number of the beast used in the book of revelations, coupled with nine men who succumbed to Sauron's power and attained near-immortality as wraiths, servants bound to the power of the One Ring and completely under the dominion of Sauron makes totally sense. ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: seymour duncan output specs

No it's not. You're just not getting the right combination of information you think you want.

The problem is that what ultimately determines the perceived loudness level of the pickup is a combination of practically every variable that exists in the complete instrument as well as the listener, and many of these variables are interdependent in ways that are difficult to define.

First off, the strength of the magnet used in the pickup matters. A stronger magnet will increase the magnetic flux produced by the string vibrating within the magnet's field, and that produces a higher voltage through the wire coils around it forming the inductor. However, a stronger magnetic field will also "pull" harder on the strings themselves, dampening them and reducing sustain. Ceramic magnets have the potential to be the strongest magnets typically used in guitars, but they can also be the weakest by far, which is why they're seen on boutique builders' highest-output pickups as well as cheap stock coils. Alnico-5 magnets are the strongest "standardized" magnets typically used, followed by Alnico-8, -4 and -2.

Second, the shape and size of the pickup poles matters. The polepieces, in contact with the magnet underneath, "shape" the magnetic field to provide more or less strength in various areas of the pickup. Rail-type pickups have a fairly uniform magnetic field, while separate polepieces create little mini-magnets right under each string. This changes how each string varies the magnetic field with its vibration and thus produces the signal. Rails capture practically everything that happens above them, and so produce a more "accurate" tone based on the actual vibration of the string. Separate polepieces exaggerate the fundamental motion of the string and de-emphasize higher harmonics, and are capable of slightly higher output. In general, the more magnetized metal inside the coil, the stronger the output.

Third, the number of windings around the polepieces, and the volume those windings take up, matters. DC resistance is most directly a stand-in for the total length of wire and thus the number of windings wrapped around the polepieces. This defines the output and tone of the pickup in several key ways. The more windings there are, the more wire there is coiled around the magnet, within which the magnetic field changes induce voltage and current. This directly impacts the output of the pickup. However, the more windings there are, the more wire there is, and that increases DC resistance which reduces current flow and thus output across all frequencies. Also, the more coils there are, the higher the pickup's inductive reactance, and inductive reactance presents higher impedance (resistance to AC current flow like audio signals) to higher frequencies. That ultimately means a pickup with more windings produces more overall output concentrated in the midrange frequencies, as low and high frequencies are attenuated to offset the overall output increase. In addition, different gauges of wire can be used. The thicker the wire, the lower the DC resistance per foot, however the more volume it will take up around the bobbin, and so coils further from the magnetic field will be affected less (magnetic strength, like most forces, follows the inverse-square law; the strength of the force decreases on the square of distance, so small changes in distance matter quite a bit). So, given the same number of windings, a pickup wound with slightly thicker wire will have slightly lower output, more lows, about the same highs.

The number of coils in one pickup obviously matters. Humbuckers have a little less than double the wire of single coils, double the magnets/polepieces, etc, so they produce more output, but the magnetic field is broader, so shorter-wavelength harmonics act over different regions of the pickup and are cancelled out. Single-coil pickups thus tend to sound brighter and more articulate than humbuckers because their magnet and coil captures the vibrations of the string with less innate cancellation.

The placement of the pickup also obviously matters. Pickups closer to the middle of the string get much more of the fundamental frequency and more overall output (because they are over the portion of the string moving the most), while pickups closer to the bridge get more higher harmonics and less output because they're closer to the tethered end. Pickups intended for bridge placement are typically "hotter" to compensate for this, increasing their output while attenuating the highest harmonics.

Those are just the variables inherent in the pickup itself, with the most direct effect on the pickup's perceived loudness when installed in the same position on the same guitar and played by the same person through the same amp at the same gain/volume settings. The pickup that will sound loudest is the pickup that produces the highest output in mV after compensating its resonant peak (ideally the entire response curve) to the human equal-loudness curve. A pickup producing 3V peak output at a 6kHz resonant peak is not going to sound as loud as a pickup producing half the output with a resonant peak closer to 3-4k (the average peak of human hearing sensitivity).

Therefore, the two most fundamental measurements for perceived output are output in mV and resonant peak in Hz/kHz. If you don't have these, you're just guessing in a comparison between any two coils for relative output. Even then, output is just one variable in the overall sound of the pickup; the traditional passive guitar circuit is essentially an RLC band-pass filter circuit. You can nudge the actual resonant peak one way or the other by changing the capacitor and pot values in the tone circuit. The higher the pot value, the sharper the peak (at full tone of course), while the higher the capacitor value, the lower the frequency of the peak.

Thanks for this post. It gives some explanation as to why gregory really isn't going to get a satisfactory definitive answer to his question.
 
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