Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

[Isaac Martin]

Hey, I just managed to save up enough to buy the guitar I've wanted for a really long time, a Pink Paisley Fender Jazzmaster. I love the aesthetic and feel of the guitar but the hardware wasn't what I was hoping for.
I've got to the point where I plan on upgrading the bridge and tremolo system with a Mastery set, and after a really long time of thinking about what my dream tone is, a Seth Lover PAF set. I know it sounds kinda weird to put humbuckers on a jazzmaster, but I've decided I wanted to change the guitar to my exact preference, and seeing as the Seth Lover pickups have the cleanest and smoothest tone that I've always wanted to have, I might as well go for it.
To get straight to the point, I wanted to know if anyone has ever done something like this before. Will I have to route out more space for the pickups? Is there anything I should know before I take the plunge and buy them? What is the practicality of integrating coil splitting and putting the pickups out of phase and is this even worth my time.
Other than that I appreciate any suggestions, I plan on replacing things like the tone/volume knobs as well to make it look a little less MIJ, anything like that would be helpful.

This is my first post here so please forgive any wackiness.

Thanks.

 

[gsammo79]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

The Seth Lover isn't wax potted. You may be fine and not experience any feedback issues but then again you might, as with any unpotted pickup

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

The Seth Lover isn't wax potted. You may be fine and not experience any feedback issues but then again you might, as with any unpotted pickup

Hey I'm sorry I don't know what potted or wax potted means. Can you please explain them.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

Welcome to the forum! I love the jazzmaster platform and always interested in mods that allow for new approaches. However, there is a challenge that standard jazzmaster pickups are of unusual size.

I don't know the pink Paisley however if these are standard jazzmaster pickups they are less deep then a humbucker and they mount differently than a humbucker, so a lot of routing and engineering would be necessary.

When clients are looking for unusual jazzmasters, we will often do a custom body, and Warmoth can make just about anything. Fender has also made some non-standard jazzmasters over the years and it's possible that you can find one that is routed for humbucker pickups.

a big question to consider is the tone you are looking for. There are many positive attributes about jazzmaster pickups as well as humbuckers and electronics side is relatively easy to manipulate since you already know the scale length and woods with a jazzmaster.

so you got lots of potential and things to think about and I'm very interested in hearing where you go.



Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

It’s more feasible to mount a humbucker under a stock Jazzmaster cover if you cut off the legs - depending on the depth of the route you may be able to mount it no prob. - or you might need to route. But in general it should at least fit beneath the stock cover and could be stabilized by foam. Covers are made with holes for PAF poles too. I’ve stuffed humbuckers under covers with success on some guitars, but know others may have different route depths.

Coil-splitting- why not? But the Seths might not be very powerful split. Make sure you get four conductor.

(Off-topic: I know everyone wants to shoot straight to the Mastery nowadays, but it may be cheaper to just invest in AVRI/US Fender bridge & vibrato - and a good setup. If there’s specific issues you’re experiencing with the MIJ hardware I’m not too alarmed since the MIJ hardware is different and not ideal, but still a lot of times a good setup is all you need with the stock hardware and they’re seldom set up correct out of the box. I recommend you visit offsetguitars.com and search the forum for Mastery issues, they aren’t necessarily trouble free. If you must change the bridge, I prefer Staytrem to Mastery, but have half a dozen offsets and only use AVRI or vintage bridges. Good luck )

 

[gsammo79]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

Wax potting is done to a pickup to prevent microphonic feedback or squeal when you've got an amp on. Humbuckers were made unpotted for years. I've owned an unpotted pickup twice. The first one made the guitar unplayable and the 2nd didnt have the same effect. There are many guys on this forum that haven't had any problems with Seth's squealing. But, it's a risk you take with unpotted pickups

 

[Mincer]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

Here is a great blog post by forum member Orpheo about potting.

I say if you want Seth Lovers in your guitar- go for it! You will get a really amazing instrument that is just what you were after. Potting is great for styles that have a lot of preamp gain, with lots of volume. A non-potted pickup is more touch sensitive, and I think, better for cleaner, dynamic styles.

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

Welcome to the forum! I love the jazzmaster platform and always interested in mods that allow for new approaches. However, there is a challenge that standard jazzmaster pickups are of unusual size.

I don't know the pink Paisley however if these are standard jazzmaster pickups they are less deep then a humbucker and they mount differently than a humbucker, so a lot of routing and engineering would be necessary.

When clients are looking for unusual jazzmasters, we will often do a custom body, and Warmoth can make just about anything. Fender has also made some non-standard jazzmasters over the years and it's possible that you can find one that is routed for humbucker pickups.

a big question to consider is the tone you are looking for. There are many positive attributes about jazzmaster pickups as well as humbuckers and electronics side is relatively easy to manipulate since you already know the scale length and woods with a jazzmaster.

so you got lots of potential and things to think about and I'm very interested in hearing where you go.



Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

I'm very willing to take the time to learn and understand what I will need to do to make the pickups fit.

As for the pickups themselves, one of the reasons I decided to replace them with humbuckers is because the aren't the same as American made pickups, and ironically are nothing like the pickups used in the 60s (the guitar is for the 60' Jazzmaster line up). The main difference is that the coils are less tightly wound and in turn are a good bit taller than the relatively flat original pickups. This gives the tone a much more trebbley and crunchy tone (definitely not what I was looking for). This means that the space for the pickup would be deeper. Hopefully this will make the routing mounting a little bit simpler but I am still very willing to take the time to do it right.

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

Here is a great blog post by forum member Orpheo about potting.

I say if you want Seth Lovers in your guitar- go for it! You will get a really amazing instrument that is just what you were after. Potting is great for styles that have a lot of preamp gain, with lots of volume. A non-potted pickup is more touch sensitive, and I think, better for cleaner, dynamic styles.

That's reassuring because I want a very touch sensitive and clean tone. Thanks.

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

It’s more feasible to mount a humbucker under a stock Jazzmaster cover if you cut off the legs - depending on the depth of the route you may be able to mount it no prob. - or you might need to route. But in general it should at least fit beneath the stock cover and could be stabilized by foam. Covers are made with holes for PAF poles too. I’ve stuffed humbuckers under covers with success on some guitars, but know others may have different route depths.

Coil-splitting- why not? But the Seths might not be very powerful split. Make sure you get four conductor.

(Off-topic: I know everyone wants to shoot straight to the Mastery nowadays, but it may be cheaper to just invest in AVRI/US Fender bridge & vibrato - and a good setup. If there’s specific issues you’re experiencing with the MIJ hardware I’m not too alarmed since the MIJ hardware is different and not ideal, but still a lot of times a good setup is all you need with the stock hardware and they’re seldom set up correct out of the box. I recommend you visit offsetguitars.com and search the forum for Mastery issues, they aren’t necessarily trouble free. If you must change the bridge, I prefer Staytrem to Mastery, but have half a dozen offsets and only use AVRI or vintage bridges. Good luck )

I definitely want to put the entire humbucker in with the silver metal covers that come with them. I'm sort of trying to go for an aesthetic that incorporates a lot of chrome. So I dont think I'm gonna try to fit the pickups inside the Jazzmaster covers.

The dream is currently to just have the pickups with the metal covers sticking through the pick-guard to give it a really simple look. I am currently in the process of seeing the actual dimensions of the pickups and measuring around in the guitar to see whats possible.

I'm thinking that the coil splitting will be worth it and I dont mind about the low output from the Alnico 2. I'm currently thinking about what wiring Ill have to do and potentially where and what switches/knobs I'll need to add. I've got to the point where I've began considering re purposing the rhythm circuit area with a Tele volume/tone/pickup selector plate setup and using the regular controls for splitting. I know it's pretty craxy and I really don't know how it would look/work so I'm very open to suggestions.

As for the bridge/trem issue, I mostly want a bridge that won't wind itself down or let my strings pop out of place while im playing. It seems like the Mastery system has that all figured out and from what I can see it actually increases sustain and clarity. The bridge/trem on the guitar stock are a joke. The tremolo arm doesn't actually click in and even after crimping some things in it rattles and isn't very firm, and the bridge literally winds itself down while I play, I can feel the strings detune and get sort of dead over time. The actual shape of the bridge allows for some really annoying buzzing as well. I know that the Mastery set costs a tone ($300<) but I think it's worth saving up for. I'm only 16 and don't really have a job, but I think it will probably be my first mod because it will tackle the biggest issues.

Thanks for all the input, it's really great to see that other people are interested in this too.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

The only Jazzmaster bridge I’ve ever owned that ever ‘wound down’ (as in the action screws loosened on their own) was a Squier bridge. That said I don’t doubt that this is occurring on your MIJ bridge, because I feel the MIJ bridge quality is getting worse over time.

String jumping is also more of an issue using an MIJ vibrato, because it is spaced too narrow; the horizontal pressure it exerts on the strings across the saddles causes them to jump. If you use an AVRI vibrato, you will get a push-in arm that actually locks, and it will possibly mitigate the ‘jumping’ issue. If not, a regular Mustang bridge or a Marr bridge is another effective solution (but I’ve never had to do that, tbh.)

If you try to diagnose the source of your bridge buzz, I’d bet it either comes down to uneven saddle adjustment screws, interference of the ends of the intonation screws with the strings, or saddles set too low and interfering with the baseplate. All those things can be diagnosed and cured in a setup. MIJ bridges also seem to leave the line with weak/wimpy intonation springs and bad tolerances for the bridge baseplate that can cause the screws to rattle - less so with AVRI bridges.

I’ll editorialize once more here then get off your back, but I’ve owned probably a dozen offsets in fifteen years, and each of them stock, I was able to eliminate any bridge buzz through setup. I think the actual design of the trem system is pretty genius and effective at staying in tune - but the later MIJ bridges and vibratos are getting worse in tolerance, and it’s harder to set them up properly than it should be. I made a post highlighting the differences between vintage, early/late MIJ, AVRI and Squier bridges if you look here long enough. I think it’s a shame Fender lets fhe lower quality MIJ bridges out the door with poor enough setups that people who aren’t familiar with offsets just assume they don’t work in principle, and get pushed toward the Mastery which I think is overkill (and has issues of its own.) Just some background to take or leave, enjoy your guitar

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

You won't have to do much routing to get a humbucker in there. Maybe not any at all, because JM pickups are kind of wide already. You will need to add custom made oversized humbucker rings that cover the original JM pickup holes in the guard...or else get a guard made for humbuckers (with or without rings, but with rings is probably better). You might need to deepen your pickup routs as well (JM routs are fairly shallow).

You don't need that insanely expensive (and ugly IMO) Mastery stuff to make a Jag/JM behave properly. You just need neck angle, heavy strings, and a properly set up bridge. You can even do it without the heavy strings if you're really good at setting them up.

As for switching, try it stock first. If you really know how to work the stock controls on a Jag/JM, you can cover a whole lot of tonal ground. The thing to understand about Jags/JMs is that they are deliberately designed to be very bright, so you run the volumes and tones down a bit as your starting point. This makes them behave more like what you would expect from active controls: the ability to boost or cut volume and tone. If 5 or 7 is your starting point on the tone knob, you can go down for more warmth, or you can go up to add treble, e.g. if you are using amp breakup, dirt boxes, etc., and you want more high end to cut through the mud.

To get all the tricky switching and crap, I suggest using Seymour Duncan Triple Shots, to make your life very easy, and so as to not molest all the excellent stock functions of the guitar.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

I use 9s on my Jaguars/Jazzmasters - on a certain level that can stop string-jump because the strings can sit deeper in the saddles. Some guitars need shims, but actually my only offset that needs one is a ‘66 Mustang parts guitar; I can get away shim-less on all my Jaguars/Jazzmasters.

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

The only Jazzmaster bridge I’ve ever owned that ever ‘wound down’ (as in the action screws loosened on their own) was a Squier bridge. That said I don’t doubt that this is occurring on your MIJ bridge, because I feel the MIJ bridge quality is getting worse over time.

String jumping is also more of an issue using an MIJ vibrato, because it is spaced too narrow; the horizontal pressure it exerts on the strings across the saddles causes them to jump. If you use an AVRI vibrato, you will get a push-in arm that actually locks, and it will possibly mitigate the ‘jumping’ issue. If not, a regular Mustang bridge or a Marr bridge is another effective solution (but I’ve never had to do that, tbh.)

If you try to diagnose the source of your bridge buzz, I’d bet it either comes down to uneven saddle adjustment screws, interference of the ends of the intonation screws with the strings, or saddles set too low and interfering with the baseplate. All those things can be diagnosed and cured in a setup. MIJ bridges also seem to leave the line with weak/wimpy intonation springs and bad tolerances for the bridge baseplate that can cause the screws to rattle - less so with AVRI bridges.

I’ll editorialize once more here then get off your back, but I’ve owned probably a dozen offsets in fifteen years, and each of them stock, I was able to eliminate any bridge buzz through setup. I think the actual design of the trem system is pretty genius and effective at staying in tune - but the later MIJ bridges and vibratos are getting worse in tolerance, and it’s harder to set them up properly than it should be. I made a post highlighting the differences between vintage, early/late MIJ, AVRI and Squier bridges if you look here long enough. I think it’s a shame Fender lets fhe lower quality MIJ bridges out the door with poor enough setups that people who aren’t familiar with offsets just assume they don’t work in principle, and get pushed toward the Mastery which I think is overkill (and has issues of its own.) Just some background to take or leave, enjoy your guitar

That's great to hear. I guess things aren't nearly as bleak as I thought. Ill definetly do some research into how I can better the current bridge I have and maybe I won't even need to upgrade, or at least that can be much further down the line.

I can really see you have a lot of insight on this and I appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[Isaac Martin]

Re: Seymour Duncan Seth Lover + Fender Jazzmaster?

You won't have to do much routing to get a humbucker in there. Maybe not any at all, because JM pickups are kind of wide already. You will need to add custom made oversized humbucker rings that cover the original JM pickup holes in the guard...or else get a guard made for humbuckers (with or without rings, but with rings is probably better). You might need to deepen your pickup routs as well (JM routs are fairly shallow).

You don't need that insanely expensive (and ugly IMO) Mastery stuff to make a Jag/JM behave properly. You just need neck angle, heavy strings, and a properly set up bridge. You can even do it without the heavy strings if you're really good at setting them up.

As for switching, try it stock first. If you really know how to work the stock controls on a Jag/JM, you can cover a whole lot of tonal ground. The thing to understand about Jags/JMs is that they are deliberately designed to be very bright, so you run the volumes and tones down a bit as your starting point. This makes them behave more like what you would expect from active controls: the ability to boost or cut volume and tone. If 5 or 7 is your starting point on the tone knob, you can go down for more warmth, or you can go up to add treble, e.g. if you are using amp breakup, dirt boxes, etc., and you want more high end to cut through the mud.

To get all the tricky switching and crap, I suggest using Seymour Duncan Triple Shots, to make your life very easy, and so as to not molest all the excellent stock functions of the guitar.

Ill look into the rings you talked about and I'll definetly mess around with the tone and see how I feel, maybe I won't even need to get a pair of Seth Lovers.

Thanks