SG pickups out of phase?

[alex1fly]

My Gibson SG has the PCB electronics, vol/vol/tone/tone/3-way, and 57 Classics. When both volumes are equal (both on 10, both on 8, etc), the sound thins out considerably. I just got it back from the shop for some fret work and the luthier thinks they're wired out of phase but was a little stumped. It's odd, because if I put both volumes on 10 to get the thin sound, then turn one down to 9, the fullness comes back and is there no matter where the pot is on the sweep, unless they're both equal (or on 10 in this example). So I'm a bit confused - is this normal? Is it useful? If no, is there a way to address it without doing a complete rewire (which the luthier said may or may not fix the problem)? Does that sound like out of phase to you all?

The PCB makes it tricky. There's a connector for each pickup... should I try to turn one of these connectors around? Would flipping a pickup 180 degrees do the trick? Flipping a magnet?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Yep, they're out of phase. When turning one down a bit, the fullness returns. That's characteristic of OOP wiring.
Reversing one plug should fix it - as long as that type of plug allows it.

 

[skelt101]

Your description sounds like your pickups are out of phase. My Les Paul and SG are both out of phase (via magnet flip) and behave the same way. I find it useful in some instances, thinning out an overly full fuzz for example. I usually play with the bridge volume a little louder than the neck, and get a pseudo in-phase sound that way. The downside is I’m not able to get that certain “chirp” sound when both pickups are equal. My guess is a magnet flip on one of the pickups would fix the “problem”.

 

[Mincer]

I haven't heard this happening on factory Gibsons, so either this is very rare, or it is one of the things to worry about with a new Gibson.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, etc.) wrote something like "people who strive to make things completely foolproof usually fail to appreciate the ingenuity of complete fools".

 

[alex1fly]

Thanks. The PCB connectors are pretty small and don't come out super easily. I'm a little nervous about mucking around with it. Maybe I'll rotate a magnet during the next string change. Which way should it get rotated?

 

[Mincer]

Here is a good tutorial on magnet flipping.

 

[alex1fly]

Your description sounds like your pickups are out of phase. My Les Paul and SG are both out of phase (via magnet flip) and behave the same way. I find it useful in some instances, thinning out an overly full fuzz for example. I usually play with the bridge volume a little louder than the neck, and get a pseudo in-phase sound that way. The downside is I’m not able to get that certain “chirp” sound when both pickups are equal. My guess is a magnet flip on one of the pickups would fix the “problem”.

I guess this is the more appropriate question, then - what am I missing out on by not having the pickups in phase? Is both-volumes-on-10 the only sound that's different, and is it a magical tone worth disassembling the pickup for?

I suppose one day this guitar may get a re-wire at which time I could remove the PCB connectors and be more free to play with phase.

 

[Mincer]

Well, 2 pickups in phase has its own sound that is probably a lot more popular than out of phase. Remember, you can always install a phase switch which allows both. I like in phase with 2 pickups, it seems to do a lot more than the very specific out of phase sound.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Thanks. The PCB connectors are pretty small and don't come out super easily.

I think it's likely that the mag was flipped at some point anyway.
You can check it with a compass, unless you happen to have a little polarity tester.
Normally screw coil is South and the slug coil is North.

I haven't looked at a Gibson PCB in a while; none of mine are recent enough to have one.
But as I remember the plugs are polarized and only will fit in the correct orientation.

IMO it's unlikely to be a manufacturing error - the wires are color coded and whoever puts the plugs on probably does hundreds of 'em.
Still, stranger things have happened.

But a magnet flip an easy fix, especially if the pickups are uncovered.

I'm a little nervous about mucking around with it. Maybe I'll rotate a magnet during the next string change. Which way should it get rotated?

Just flip it upside down, so that face that was on top is now on the bottom.
The poles are the long edges; you want each edge to be under the opposite coil compared to before.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Well, 2 pickups in phase has its own sound that is probably a lot more popular than out of phase. Remember, you can always install a phase switch which allows both. I like in phase with 2 pickups, it seems to do a lot more than the very specific out of phase sound.

My first and oldest PRS has the original 5-way rotary wiring, which gives full hums out-of-phase in position 2.
It's great for that certain nasal tone, but has always been my least-used position by far.

The original wiring scheme got phased out (pun intended) around '89 I think, in favor of a less radical, more useful sound.
AFAIK since '89 or '90 all PRS 5-ways give you outside coils in position 2.