SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

[Zeppelinfan8790]

I'm going to make about $1650 in a job this summer, and I've been wanting an SG for a long time so now I'm finally going to get one. I'm going between these two models. What are the main differences between the two besides the pickups and pickguard? Isnt the Standards neck thicker? I remember playing the 61, and I loved that neck, but I dont remember what the neck on the standard is like.

If I get the 61, I wont have enough money for new pups. This is one of the reasons I want the Standard, because a set of 59's would really be sweet in it.

So basically I want to know what you would do in this situation. Any comments are welcome.

:headbang:
Chris

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

I hate to make a stab at retailers, but why buy new? There's such a huge abundance of used guitars that are New/used, that you could almost buy two for that price. There's a problem with both those SG designs IMO. The 61 sounds better because the pickups are on rings not a guard, but the thin neck and small heel don't do much for the sustain or tuning. On the Std, the neck feels real nice, but it has a less punchy tone, due to the hums being on a pickguard. I've had both, so that's what I found with them. Both are great guitars, but I don't own either anymore, mostly because it's hard for me to get used to the thin body. If you search Ebay, or other used avenues,
you could end up with a new flametop SG Custom outfitted with Duncans for less than $1600. Just my 3 cents.

 

[Zeppelinfan8790]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

I would love to buy used, but I want to play this guitar before I buy it, so ebay is out. And there's not many used guitars around my town. Maybe if I went down to the shops in St Louis I could find a sweet used one.

I've got a couple months before I'll have all the money, so I'm sure I'll find a way place thats got one.

Chris

 

[ex-250]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

i was thinking of buying a 61 a few months ago, but looking at the 61 and standard side by side, the finish on the 61 is kinda.....dull. more brownish than red

 

[Bludave]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

I have a '68 SG standard. Great guitar, but you really need to be careful with SG style guitars in general. The headstocks will break off if it takes a hit. There isn't much mass behind the headstock. The second problem with SG's in general is they are headstock heavy. The have a tendncy to slide down. This can be remedied by using a good quality strap or repositioning the strap buttons. I'm not sure what pups are coming in them today, but depending on what you are looking to do sound wise a set of pearly gates or Seth lovers would make that guitar sing!

 

[Thames]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Having owned both models, I'd go for the Standard.

The neck joint is stronger on the Std (joint at 19th fret instead of 22th for the '61), mine has the long-neck tenon.

GearJoneser, even if I know that you're a great reference in terms of tone and gear, in a blind-fold test, I doubt you could tell which one has the pickup mounted on rings or not... : private: :nana:

Standards look way too cool... Ebony or Cherry.. :smokin:

 

[Zeppelinfan8790]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Thanks for the replys, everyone. I'm gonna try to get to a store that carries these guitars and play them. I was leaning toward the 61, but after reading Thames reply, I'm starting to think I'd like the standard better.

There's so many pup combos I wanna try in this....good thing I got awhile to choose. Even when I got the guitar I doubt I'll be able to choose. Right now I'm goin between 59s, seths, and ants.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Thames]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Hey Zepdude, why dont you go for an EDS1275 dbl-neck SG ?? :bigthumb:

"to be a rock and not to roll" :smokin:

 

[Jeffrec]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Go with the '61. It's a better guitar overall. The horns are carved nicer than the Standard. You might want to swap out the '57 Classic from the bridge, and change the tuners, but aside from that, you won't regret it.

I had a '67 Standard that I loved, but the '61 is better IMO. Thames is right about the neck joint, but they're built pretty well. The Standard has a chunkier neck profile.

Jeff

 

[dystrust]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

The 61 sounds better because the pickups are on rings not a guard, but the thin neck and small heel don't do much for the sustain or tuning. On the Std, the neck feels real nice, but it has a less punchy tone, due to the hums being on a pickguard.

I agree that the 61 sounds more punchy and "alive" than the Standard but the reason isn't the pickup rings/guard. The 61 has an ABR-1 bridge and most Standards use the Nashville TOM. If you did an ABR conversion on the Standard you'd make up for 90% of the difference between the two, the other 10% likely being due to the slightly different neck profile.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Yo,

SG maniac here.

1) All new gibson SG's come with a Nashville tune-o-matic bridge. Even the 61 re-issues (yes, really). Historically correct, no. Better than the ABR-1 (in my opionion), yes. I think it is a bigger, more sturdy piece of metal with much more space to allow for intonation adjustment.


2) The biggest difference between a new 61 reissue and a new Standard is the neck joint. The '61 joins the body at the 22nd fret. The Standard joins at the 19th fret, and the neck joint gets thicker (as thick as the body) around the 19th fret. There is still the same amount of fret access as the 61 (look at a picture), but the neck is thicker up there (Standard). The strap button is also located more towards the neck.

This means that the '61 has better playability on the highest frets (TOTAL access unlike any other guitar). Although the Standard has great access as well, the strap button will be in your palm if you are playing on the highest frets. Also that thicker neck joint is not to everyone's taste.


3) Neck. The new '61 uses the "slim taper" neck which is more like an Ibanez neck. I personally hate it. The Standard has a nice meaty baseball neck which I STRONGLY feel provides more tone.

I have played some older '61's RI's that have used the fatter neck. The new ones have the Slim Taper though.

I find the '61 reissues with the fatter necks to be the best playing guitars available. The one in my avatar is actually a '62 reissue and is the best playing guitar I have ever played. Big fat neck, awesome action, great fretwork.


4) The whole reason Gibson changed the neck joint from the '61 style is that although it plays great, there have been certain guitars with tuning instability issues. I have played some with and without those issues.


5) Another thing is tone. The smaller neck joint on the '61 has been the subject of many a debate. Many feel it simply transfers less string vibration.

I tend to favor the sound of the bigger (later) neck joint overall. I have found that many new 61's are more trebly instruments than the new Standards which seem to have more body, low end and mids. In my opinion, probably due to the bigger neck joint.

Keep in mind, all guitars are different. I have tried many new 61's that were full sounding and many Standards (and Specials - same guitar with dots and no binding or pickup covers) that were small sounding.

Also, when looking at used ones, I think the people at Gibson must have taken some crazy pills, because NO other guitar has as many variations over the years. There are SO many little things that have changed from year to year. Go to a used guitar store with a bunch of SG's and see. Different placement of bridges, pickups, neck joint (in addition to the main two styles), you name it. Entering the world of SG's requires you to check you sanity at the door.


Continued.........

 

[Mac-P]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

....continued....


6) Looks. NOTHING looks like a 61 re-issue in my opinion. With the smaller Les Paul style pickguard, it is the baddest ass looking guitar in the world (can you tell I'm biased). The horns are much more sculpted (beveled) and the guitar seems in general to have had more care taken during manufacturing. Of course there are GLARING exceptions to this and all rules.

The color of the new 61's is "Heretige Red" and is a much more orange-y brown than the "Cherry Red" finish that was on recent years (and that ages in many instances to look like that dark maroon or "blood red"). I am not really fond of the new color.

The standards are available in Cherry red, but it varies a LOT like everything Gibson.


7) I too prefer the pickup mounting rings in the '61 re-issues to the "strat style" pickguard on the standards. More classy and the pickups stay parallel to the strings (the pickups "tilt" on the Standard).


8) Pickups. I like the '57 classic in the neck of the '61, but found the bridge to be too bright (as usual for my taste). I have played a couple of Standards where the bridge pickups were actually great the way they were and the neck pickup needed to be brighter. All depends on the guitar.


9) Weight. Weight varies a LOT between SG's. Some feel like balsa wood and are neck heavy, others feel like regular Strats weight wise and are fine. Both my SG's are on the heavier side and are perfectly balanced.

Also, the '61 is a one piece body. The standard is a two piece (hopefully book matched with the seam down the center - but I have seen off center - I've seen everything). Not a big deal at all, but, whatever. Some people care about this stuff more than others.


10) Price. You can get a Standard for $1069 new here in NY (plus tax) if you look. The '61 is $1599. BIG diffrence. You can do a lot with that cash.


Bottom line is, both guitars have pluses and minuses. It all depends on your taste.

Good luck! Peace.

:burnout:

 

[Thames]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Yo,

SG maniac here.

Yeah Mac dude, was thinking about you when I replied to this thread.. I said to myself "MacP will surely show up soon!"

 

[Mac-P]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

Yeah Mac dude, was thinking about you when I replied to this thread.. I said to myself "MacP will surely show up soon!"

I smelled the thread from a far......

 

[Hellion]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

I'd look for a late 70's standard. They were still making those out of the "14 rings per inch" wood back then as regular issue, though you can still find them now. I've played the newer 61 reissues, and they just don't feel as solid (or at least as solid as an SG can feel) as my older standards. Plus, the pickguard they used was the smaller half wing, which I think looks a helluva lot cooler. Being close to St Louis, I'd think you'd be in a hotbed of musical instruments. Check out pawn shops, too. Happy hunting.

 

[Zeppelinfan8790]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

There's so many different pros and cons on each one I can't decide which would be better. Those vintage 70's ones sound appealing though. Are you talking about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47073&item=3725202628&rd=1

Thanks for the comments everyone! I'll make a decision after I play some..which will probably be this weekend if I'm not jammin with friends like I did all last weekend.

Chris

 

[Hellion]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

There's so many different pros and cons on each one I can't decide which would be better. Those vintage 70's ones sound appealing though. Are you talking about something like this?

Chris

That's what mine look like, though I had one refinished in white and the other is wine red (it was a Rush thing at the time). That one's very pretty.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

There's so many different pros and cons on each one I can't decide which would be better. Those vintage 70's ones sound appealing though. Are you talking about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47073&item=3725202628&rd=1

Thanks for the comments everyone! I'll make a decision after I play some..which will probably be this weekend if I'm not jammin with friends like I did all last weekend.

Chris

AAAAAAHHHHH........one of the BIG issues of 70's SG's. Check this out in case you didn't notice (many people don't):

Look where the fingerboard meets the neck pickup. Right up flush against it.

Now look at most non-70's SG ('61, '61 reissue, 60's Standard or current day Standard): You will notice about 2 frets worth of SPACE between the end of the fingerboard and the neck pickup.

How is this you ask? Well, in the 70's, Gibson decided that the "new and improved" neck joint wasn't good enough. So they actually moved the bridge and neck farther into the body, Les Paul style (yes, really).

The actual guitar is shorter from end to end than a '61. Try putting a 70s SG in some new gibson SG cases. It doesn't really fit.

The neck pickup is in the exact same location, but the neck is further into the body, giving you even LESS clearance when playing on those top strings. Notice how the 22nd fret doesn't even clear the cutaway.

On a non-70's SG the 22nd fret is located where the 20th fret on this guitar is.

As a matter of fact, on the Iommi and Supreme (or any SG with 24 frets), this is where they get the space for the 2 extra frets.

Also notice on this 70's SG how the horns aren't all that sculpted (beveled). And the neck is REALLY thin by the nut.

This is another example of 70's post acid Gibson insanity.

There are too many variations to go into here, but most 70's SG's have:

1) Fingerboard located more into the guitar & flush with the neck pickup
2) Bridge set further back to accomodate
3) Very little beveling on the horns
4) Block inlays instead of crown inlays on the Standard

Some other 70's variations that change year to year
1) Location of the bridge pickup (it moves to & from the bridge)
2) Painted logo on a standard
3) Ebony fingerboard on a Standard (THAT'S cool)
4) Grover tuners stock
5) Input jack on end of guitar (Les Paul style)
6) Toggle switch located between rhythm pickup volume & tone knob
7) Different styles of tune-o-matic bridges

And too many more. I'm gonna go take a nap. Or get a beer. Or both.

:burnout:

 

[BluesJunkie]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

I'm interested in a Standard, but I hate the looks of the pickguard. What's the routing like underneath? Could you take off the pickguard and install mounting rings, or are there open routes between the pickup cavities like a Strat has?

 

[SG Supreme]

Re: SG Standard vs. 61 reissue...

What can be said about the SG Supreme in part of the comparison between the other two?

Some say the sound is thin. What are your views on it?