should I rewire this? New Pickups

[jmp22684]

Okay I have a 59 neck and JB bridge that should be here pretty soon and I am "prepping" the guitar right now and pulling out the old pups.

I was wondering if I should rewire this or not. First I see the cap between the tone and volume, most diagrams I see have this placed just on the tone. Though I did some reading where one guy mentioned you should only put it between the tone and volume pot?

Anyways I am not going to do any modding right now, I may get into that later with phase reverse or a blackout pre-amp. I didn't get the 4 conductor 59 as I never favored this sound on my previous guitar with this pickup configuration.

So basically just a standard run of the mill wiring.

I know that this wiring looks pretty sloppy and would love to fix that... but essentially my question is this: Will the current wiring negatively effect the standard tone derived from a 59 and JB or will I be fine just putting in the new pups and getting around to tidying things up later.

There is plenty of room so gauge isn't a concern and all I have is pretty basic stranded copper wiring.

I am including way more photos that probably needed but wanted to make sure all angles were view-able .....

AS I TYPE THIS FED-EX PULLED UP!!!

 

[Clint 55]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

AS I TYPE THIS FED-EX PULLED UP!!!

Happy times.

If you're happy with your pot and cap values, and there's no noise or anything, you don't really need to rewire and you should be fine only swapping the pups.

When I mod guitars, I like to replace everything so I can tweak my pot and cap values. I want as much clarity as possible out of my humbuckers so I use a 1 meg volume pot with a treble bleed and a 250k no load tone pot.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

I do want to replace everything eventually just so I know its all good stuff and to tiddy things up. I've get them in and they sound pretty good. Not exactly as I remember though in my old esp horizon. This one is a custom build horizon.

They seem a bit darker. I was thinking of just grabbing one of the kits or just get pots separately and use some nice heavy wire. I have the space to spare so why worry about it... Right? You only hit problems when using too thin a wire as far as I have read.

I am 90% certain these are 500k pots.

What I would like to do is see if I can hunt around to find an open cavity shot of a 2007 esp horizon fr ii with duncans. Thats what I had with the 59 and JB (though that one was a 4 conductor 59, but I don't plan on splitting).

Gotta entertain the kid for a few and set up for painting.... Errrr... Mess creation... I'll shoot up in a few with pics of the guitar.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

It begins.... Disclaimer: I have never done this before. I have never soldered. This could be reckless!



It pauses briefly, I have a helper now.... helpers are always good when doing something you've never done.... Especially when they're 3. BUBBLE WRAP!!!



My soldering skills make PornHub look clean (too far?). I didn't want to cut the wires shorter just in case I wanted the length for some reason at a later date... Just coiled those.... yes. that is a twist tie, there are no wires back there to contact though.



Before:




After: I know its only looks, maybe I'll pull some old recordings and A/B it a bit.



This is the ESP I used to have. I bought both of these guitars at the same time knowing I would only keep one. This one is EXTREMELY sexy, but after trying to find info on the one that I kept, and of course playing it, it was a VASTLY superior guitar. Plays like butter, the attention to detail in the craftsmanship is beyond any guitar I have ever played.... Whoever originally ordered this ESP must have payed a HEAVY HEAVY price. I have a USA Stratocaster HSS Deluxe, USA G&L Comanche Custom, Gibson Les Paul Traditional, and a PRS Swamp Ash Special. This ESP makes all of those guitars feel like an epiphone special... Its just .... I don't know... but its going to the grave with me!!

However, I did like the way that the Horizon FR ii sounded much better. This is where I would like to try and find the details on that guitar and see what I can do about matching it. Pots, caps, wiring, etc....

 

[Clint 55]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Haha no that wasn't too far that was funny.

Nice work!

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Its just .... I don't know... but its going to the grave with me!!

So you're planning on playing death metal, I take it?

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Pre disclaimer: there may or may not be some single barrel bourbon involved
Hehehe... Thanks.


I am hammered... I am typing this after I realized I went on a rant.... Please only read if you're extremely bores or... Hate yourself.
No, not death metal. I enjoy everything from classic rock such as SRV, and thats what my strat is for, to 90's rock.

All I can say is that the horizon fr ii with the 59 neck and JB bridge sounded tight. No flabby bottom end. No harsh frequencies in the 2k region... It was just tight and solid.

That is the sound I would like to get out of this guitar. A nice solid versatile tone that can cut through the Fletcher Munson curve and sit well in the mix.

Honestly I prefer my strat hss.... But it just doesnt keep up and by god if I could get my strat's sound from this guitar I would... But there REALLY is something to be said for craftsmanship and this ESP takes the cake.

My strat. Its the firat year fender ever produced a deluxe strat, rather than a custom shop, plays like a dream. It truly is a player! Many of my music students have commented on that.... For that guitar being everything tjat it is.... This ESP smokes it... And you have NOOOOOO idea how much it pains me to say that. My strat had been my all around GO TO guitar. If I had to pick only ONE guitar it would have been this strat. This ESP though.... It just absolutely crushes my other guitars when it boils down to build quality. It is still a VERY new guitar, in comparison, to me.... And I am still in absolute AWWW because of it.

I am only 33 years old. I have been playing the guitar since I was 8. I started on the violin at 5, then the piano, played the clarinet until 18 and in between the saxophone and flute.... I majored in music, production, drama, blah blah ****ing blah... I am not a newbie. This is my career... And I can say this ESP smokes ANY instrument I have picked up.... In fact given its current configuration I would say the original individual that ordered this guitar was more interested in a smoother jazz tone than I am.

I have taken many years of jazz studies and improvisation courses... And while I think everyone should make this leap... It is not my prefered style. I just don't have the interest.... But the fundamentals are EXTREMELY important.

I'm drunk now by the way....


Anyways... At the end of the day I teach music and I perform. I have the equipment, credentials, etc to do this successfully for many many years that I have. I am not an electrician... But I read... And feel confident saying I do not suffer from, "I don't know what I don't know".... I listen to everything.... Did I say I am currently drunk? You scroll up and see the 3 year old? Yes... Right now in this EXTREMELY rare instance.... I am not responsible for his well being... So please.... Blow off banter such as you would a drunken conversation.

Right now though.... In this particular guitar I am goal oriented towards a clear cut 90's rock tone. I can not get everything I would like out of a single guitar.... So no ... No death metal... But something that cuts through with its own character and handles it well.... I can't swap guitars every other song live.. Can I?!

My previous ESP Horizon cut through clearly and did it EXTREMELY well. I want the same from this ESP. I ordered the same pickups and am assuming after installation I have lost return options...

The reason I ordered these? Because I already experienced them and I TRULY am the type to second guess a decision for years.... Example? Wellll.... This pickup swap?! Its been in the making for almost a year now. After at least a year I decided to bite the bullet and make it happen....

Now I want to know if a different wiring configuration will get me closer to the tone I have recorded with this exact configuration...

Post disclaimer: there may or may not be some single barrel bourbon involved

 

[Demanic]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Indeed.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Drunk indeed... Ummmm.... Ignore that post. I am sobering and thinking.... Wtf!?

 

[Demanic]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Lol. No biggie. I've seen and probably posted worse.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[AlexR]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

You'd have to way off the rails before you topped most of MM's posts from a few years back.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

If you could post a question, replace pickups, post review clips, drunk post something else and get banned all in one thread, you'd be a legend.

 

[Demanic]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

If you could post a question, replace pickups, post review clips, drunk post something else and get banned all in one thread, you'd be a legend.

Now you tell me.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

I miss calculated yesterday in forgetting an extremely vital part of the equation.

Section 1 = Robbie being watched
Section 2 = We can do stuff!
Section 3 = Drinks!!

The miscalculations:
4. Wife at work
5. Toddler joined us in bed at 2am keeping me awake
6. Toddler does not give a hoot if you were drinking the night before
7. Guilt is preventing me from just tossing on the tv babysitter. Guilt is a real bastard.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Back on topic... So even if I replace all the wires just to put in a heavier gauge and neaten things up a bit.... What are the effects of having the cap wired between the tone and volume pots, the way it currently is, vs just on the tone pot as displayed in most all diagrams I have pulled up?

I know essentially that you aren't going to hear the effects of the cap until you start rolling off the tone.... But with it wired this way isn't this cap effecting the volume reaction as well?

Maybe I don't know what I am asking yet. Lol... It is still a topic I am researching and learning about.

Would different/new pots effect sound? For sake of argument lets assume volume and tone are wide open to eliminate any variables that could effect answering these questions.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

In an RC network in a guitar tone circuit, I've never noticed a difference whether the cap is before the resistor/pot or after that I could attribute to the arrangement. The values of the components have an affect for sure. Someone on here once posted a schematic with an explanation why the order doesn't matter.

 

[Mincer]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

I don't think you need a heavier wire. You don't need very heavy wire for pickups. It could be neater in there, but I've seen much worse. If your OCD bothers you, re-do it. If you are getting noise, re-do it. If something isn't working right, re-do it. But otherwise, have fun and play.

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

Okay great.

And I am correct in assuming that the cap doesn't matter when the pots are wide open, correct?

I hate to admit this but for the most part my rig is setup so I can play with the pots open. The reasoning is I need to burn through songs quick and like a consistent sound. I can never land those exactly where I want before diving into the next song. I do make minor adjustments occasionally as I am playing during a song. But for the most part I kill volume completely if we aren't flowing right to the next tune and then open it back up to start the next... And then continue minor adjustments... But it needs to be pretty consistent to start.

The 59 I am loving. A bit darker than my last bridge pup so I'll make a global eq adjustment for now... But then the JB is just screaming!

I am unsure of Sweetwater's return policy on pickups so I may need to eat the cost, but do you guys have any recommendations for a good bridge pickup to match with the 59 neck that has a bit more of a rounded top end than the JB? I do need it to cut through and understand that is done in the high midrange frequencies, but maybe something slightly more tame.... I find myself wanting to roll the tone back on the JB but then I need to crank it back up for the 59.... With only one tone control this is a bit tedious.

Hmmmmm... Or could I wire in a stacked pot? Much like you see on bass guitars. Have the botton knob set to the bridge pup and roll it back a touch....

So another option presented it self a I started that.... 1. Pickup swap from the JB to something with a rounder top end or 2. A stacked tone pot and just lpf the JB a bit....

Opinions?

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

I am also going to look around at other posts. I am sure this topic has come up and I am pretty sure I may even have a thread somewhere with these answers...

Just spit ballin here

 

[jmp22684]

Re: should I rewire this? New Pickups

And Bam: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?308679-I-need-help-choosing-a-pickup-set&p=3934785#post3934785