...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

[strat_master]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

hmmm i dont have that much experience but from what i gather alot of pors do use digital amps, and get pretty good results. Of course they wont be the same as tube amps. I dont see anything wrong with going digital instead of tube. Its all on what the guitarist needs, if he needs an amp thats mroe versatile then i dont see a problem going digital. If hes ina band with a certain go with that one tube amp that will rock everyones socks. I will admit i plan on getting a tube amp soon, i didnt even consider digital so i am guilty of that.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I dislike the blues, vintage strats, vintage Fender amps

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! There should be a law against saying that! (J/K)

Oh well, different strokes.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

If man were meant to fly, God would have given him wings.

One day, there will be a man on the moon.

One day digital amps will sound, act and feel like tube amps.

Ok, two out of three aint bad. With amps and tone it really is mind over matter. If you don't mind how digital amps sound or feel then it doesn't matter. If you really like them then all the better.

Personally I find digital/modeling amps pretty deceint for demo recording and my Pod 2.0 is a lot easier to set up and record with. No mics to get get moved or levels to monitor that might wake up the wife of the neighors and the tone is consistant.

I think thats also the problem with digital amps though, they are too consistant. One day the tech dudes may come up with enough memory and processor power to emulate what happens in a tube amp but that hasn't happened yet. There is a beauty to what happens to your tone when a tube amp is run hard. The way the tone blossoms and rolls around under your hands is very addictive to those that appriciate such things. Every once in a while you get into a room where everything is ringing right and the sympathetic frequencies all line up and a tube amp will come alive under your hands. It's hard to describe but it's very cool and almost magical. Digital amps just don't do that.

Tone is in the ear of the beholder and I try hard not to wizz on anyone elses happiness. Inexpensive modeling amps are a great way for people to get tone on a budget and I would have died for a modeling amp over some of the amps I had access to as a teen and young adult. Since I can for the moment have anything I like within reason I choose to play tube amps and my 1984 2203 will collect a foot of dust before I ever let it go and the mesa rack is here to stay but for a quick recording fix the Pod does have it's place. That place just isn't on stage.

But digital is here to stay and it will only get better over time. Who knows, maybe one day we'll be able to stuff a midi cable up our bums and download the tones we hear in our heads. Stranger things have happened (especially in L.A.).


I get it Jeff.........

 

[Loserchief]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

As a former Vetta II owner who switched to tube recently i think there's no problem with digital amps. my vetta II was cool and versetaille as hell but i realised that i just didn't really need all those models, although they were fun to have. The Engl Powerball i have now just suits me more and just gives me the better tone than any of the Vetta-models. It might not have so many options but with four channels the engl is good enough and its range of tone is perfect for my needs. And as mentioned many times before, tube amps just feel more organic and alive than digitals. I still use the spider II as my main practice amp in my appartement since i couldn't even remotely crank the powerball to the point were i want it without getting the cops called to my door.

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I like my Line6. I play at home and it does most of what I want. But, I sure do miss my very first amp, a Sears Silvertone Twin 12. It was clunky and smelly, but had a sorta cool sound even though I could never get it to distort without getting my parents all in a tizzy.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Lew, unless it's shred metal I'm playing--which is not often--I just HAVE to have the Vetta A/B'd with a tube amp. I guess that's why I love the Vetta--the tones are great but the feel comes from my tube amp. I also use the effects with the Vetta and run the tube amp dry or with a little reverb.

Plus the Vetta has lotsa pretty lights. C'mon, isn't that worth the lack of tubes??? :laugh2:

Yep...that's the point I was trying to make. I think high quality digital amps like the Line 6 sound fine...but they don't "feel" like a great tube amp. Like Robert S. said, maybe someday they will feel as good as they sound. Until then I'll stick with my old tube amps. Lew

 

[fretburner]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Fender's CyberTwin is pretty good.

 

[Artie]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I'm one of those who's budget, talent (or lack thereof), amatuer status, and environment call for the use of a modeler. (Although, I took no offense at anything Jeff, or anyone else said). In my home studio, the J-Station is great, but it does need help. Thats why I run it in parallel with a Yamaha effects unit. The "J" gives me the fundamental character of my tone, and the Yamaha provides the ambience. When its all mixed together, in the proper proportions, (like any good recipe), I can get a pretty sweet sound.

But as others have eluded to, ignorance is bliss - I've never owned a "real" amp.

Artie

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

+1...I use an all digital GT-Pro direct to PA for live gigs, and I also use (gasp) guitar synth. If it works for me, great- and I am not trying to emulate old amps at all- I honestly don't care how they sounded- some sounds I have programmed don't even sound like a guitar at all.
I dislike the blues, vintage strats, teles and LPs, vintage Fender amps, JCM900s/2000s, emo, classic rock and sushi. I am fine if someone else likes that stuff. I don't need to shout what I don't like from the top of the hill in hopes to get a 'hell yeah' from the angry mob below.

That may be true, but it's not like you stay out of threads regarding vintage instruments. In fact, I'd say you enjoy parading the fact that your tastes are very different to 99% of the rest of the forum. To be fair, though, you wouldn't be able to contribute much (and enrich the forum, as you do) around here if you were waiting around for threads on guitar synths and experimental music. It'd be like me waiting around for someone to post about West African 60s psychedelia...

To subject: I don't like modelling amps. Sound OK to good, depending on the amp, feel awful.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

The only modelling amp i have decent experiance with is the first genereation Flextone combo. Its alright, but I can't get enough definition (which isnt usually a problem for me, being a dedicated big muff user). Also, i can't get the sound to clean up nicley when I turn the volume on the guitar down, like it would a tube amp. Thy just feel wrong to me.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I just did a clip in Tips'n'clips with a Rectifier model on a Valvetronix, and realized how much different a direct modeling signal sounds, compared to a mic'd cab. I'm thinking that an ideal way to record one would be to run a direct signal through a mic pre, into the board, and also mic the cab, run it through a mic pre, and send it to another channel.
My clip was just a plug in and play thing, but I'm pretty sure it could be made to sound great with a lot more studio technique.

I think that modeling amps will only get better if they're done the way Vox has done, but even more advanced. Vox uses a mini tube power section, amplified by solid state. I think they need to create a more complex tube section, possibly using 2 or more 12AX7's to enrich the feel and touch sensitivity......then, they'll be closer to nailing it. Digital by itself will never equal that idea.

The most interesting setup I've seen was a few years ago when Todd Mohr from Big Head Todd and the Monsters was using a laptop computer, logged onto Amp Farm, then running through an Avalon Mic Pre, into some good power amps. It was the best modeling tone I've heard. I think they need to replicate that in a stand-alone amp.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I have no problem with people not liking modelling amps. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I like that other people think is stupid and vise versa. That's fine ... everyone has different taste.

What I DON'T like is the way some people insinuate that because I have a modeller, like it, and use it frequently, I must have poor taste in tone. I must like modellers because I don't know what a "real" tube amp sounds like, or because I just don't care enough about my tone. Forgive me if this offends anyone, but that's a lame, condescending load of bullsh!t.

It's fine if you aren't able to enjoy modellers, but please spare the rest of us who do the condescending attitude. It's juvenile and short-sighted, and it just makes you look like a gear snob. There are players all over the world - some who could outplay you with a broken wrist and a raging hangover - getting phenomenally good tone from a modeller. True, they aren't the same as what they model, and yes, they have their limitations, but that doesn't make them worthy of any more or less respect than your gear.

Final note: this isn't directed at any of you in particular, and most of you have pretty mature attitudes about this sort of thing ... I'm just really tired of the crap is all.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I have no problem with people not liking modelling amps. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff I like that other people think is stupid and vise versa. That's fine ... everyone has different taste.

What I DON'T like is the way some people insinuate that because I have a modeller, like it, and use it frequently, I must have poor taste in tone. I must like modellers because I don't know what a "real" tube amp sounds like, or because I just don't care enough about my tone. Forgive me if this offends anyone, but that's a lame, condescending load of bullsh!t.

It's fine if you aren't able to enjoy modellers, but please spare the rest of us who do the condescending attitude. It's juvenile and short-sighted, and it just makes you look like a gear snob. There are players all over the world - some who could outplay you with a broken wrist and a raging hangover - getting phenomenally good tone from a modeller. True, they aren't the same as what they model, and yes, they have their limitations, but that doesn't make them worthy of any more or less respect than your gear.

Final note: this isn't directed at any of you in particular, and most of you have pretty mature attitudes about this sort of thing ... I'm just really tired of the crap is all.

The guitar-forum universe is full of implicit snobbery. I've come to the conclusion that you are less of a man if you:

-like skinny necks and/or superstrats
-use a modelling amp or multi fx
-use light strings
-use a super-low action
-dime a super high gain amp
-etc...

In the end, what works for you is what works for you. The most important thing you can posess in the chase for a great sound is an open mind. Anyone who plays/goes to gigs knows that there's always someone out there getting a killer sound from some weird, cheap piece of gear.

My approach is to try everything and go with what I like.

 

[Mincer]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

That may be true, but it's not like you stay out of threads regarding vintage instruments. In fact, I'd say you enjoy parading the fact that your tastes are very different to 99% of the rest of the forum. To be fair, though, you wouldn't be able to contribute much (and enrich the forum, as you do) around here if you were waiting around for threads on guitar synths and experimental music. It'd be like me waiting around for someone to post about West African 60s psychedelia...

absolutely I do! I am certainly proud that I can bring an area of guitar playing to this forum that isn't well understood by other guitarists. I can separate fact from fiction when it comes to new technology and its application in a professional guitar player's world, and I am happy to do it. i talk about things i know very well, and parts of guitar playing I actually like. thing is, im not going to talk at all in a thread about a part of guitar playing I don't care about until someone starts in with 'technology sucks' and 'if it doesn't sound like Clapton, SRV or BB it isn't real guitar playing'..oh, let me add the favorite 'if it doesn't cost a lot of money, is 35 years old, or isn't handmade by someone with no vowels in his last name, it sucks'. problem is, that young people may read threads like this, and think their setup isn't adequate, they need their pedals modded, they have to like the blues, they need expensive tube amps, etc, to be a pro guitar player. Or even respected amongst their peers. Hey, I am a pro (I make my entire living playing music), I use Duncan pickups and I don't like/use any of that stuff I mentioned. Many people do (the other 99%) and do a great job. It just isn't for me, and it isn't the only way to do things.
what i don't understand is why this is such a problem for you. diversity and differing opinions are healthy, right? In the almost 1500 posts, I have never been abusive to anyone here. I will however, offer my opinion if people talk in absolutes, or if my experience is different than theirs.
you can always PM me if there is something I write that bothers you, and we can talk about it- I have no problem with that.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

oh, trust me, I'm not picking a fight. I personally find you likeable, and if anything, this forum needs more fringe characters like yourself. It's not like we're short on vintage snobs and blues rock wheedlers (like, at least in part, myself). Plus we have similar tastes in some areas.

I just thought I'd mention that you often pop up with generally unfavourable opinions on vintage/retro gear, the xray les paul thread being the most recent example I can think of.

You certainly don't expect "a 'hell yeah' from the angry mob below", knowing the forum demographics as you do, but it seems to me like you do like the opportunity to bring up the fallacies, as you see them, of retro/vintageism at most available opportunities, plenty of which you could let pass, and in some cases in threads where no-one has come out and said anything too ridiculous in favour vintage or rero gear/music. To someone like myself, who sits somewhere in the middle, it gets funny after a while, almost like parody, even though your opinions are very well considered and obviously the product of experience.

 

[Jeff Seal]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

ratherdashing..you bring up a very valid point! There is a vast amount of "implied superiority" which resides in most gear related discussions. I promise you I am the very last person who would ever judge anyone by their gear alone, but it does run rampant! (even many here seem to think that because I own a Marshall Stack, not only do I practice through it, but I do so at 130db, I'm a tube snob, PTP vs. PCB, etc......i don't know where everyone got this idea from!...but it's not true!....oh and btw, my Marshall is the most despised of all time depending upon who you ask.)
Anyway, your point about "being judged" is unfortunately, rather the norm at most forums. But I don't see very much of this here, thank goodness!
One of the things that most of us don't take into consideration, including me from time to time, is there are players just starting out here and some who have been playing for a very long time. My opinions are based on my 27 yrs of playing, where digital wasn't even an issue until the mid 80's...
None of us can change where we are in life, although most wish we could. At this time, I couldn't tell you honestly how well new "Squier" strats play or are made...it's just not something I keep up with!
Most of us older guys view the newer "digital" gear as a quite promising alternative to lugging around Fender Twins with JBL's, but again it hasn't happened so far! (it actually seems like it's going backwards, an Art SGE MachII through a old Crown DC300 was a killer rig in 1988, 17 yrs later nobody has even gotten that nailed down!...thus my frustration!)
Since I started this thread, it basically reflects where I am in life, and was most certainly not intended to "judge", but do keep in mind.... Line6 isn't just jumping through any hoops to "model" an Evans SS combo or a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212.....both of which are killer amps. Nor or old Oranges or Sundown's or even...........get this............."Dumble's" (considered to be the ultimate! i don't know why??!!)

The ultimate truth still remains....if it works for you, that's all that matter's...

Jeff Seal

 

[Mincer]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

(it actually seems like it's going backwards, an Art SGE MachII through a old Crown DC300 was a killer rig in 1988, 17 yrs later nobody has even gotten that nailed down!...thus my frustration!)The ultimate truth still remains....if it works for you, that's all that matter's...

Jeff Seal

OMG, I used this ART for a few years, it was my introduction to midi and digital processing. Thing is, although you could control every parameter via midi, and I really learned a lot about continuous controls, it sounded SO BAD, although it was all there was with digital gear at the time. I bought it, because ART promised it was 'always upgradeable', and they never came out with 1 upgrade for it. And what was with the paint?
The X15 midi controller was terrible too, and had the same icky pink paint. It also barely controlled anything.

 

[Jeff Seal]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

OMG, I used this ART for a few years, it was my introduction to midi and digital processing. Thing is, although you could control every parameter via midi, and I really learned a lot about continuous controls, it sounded SO BAD, although it was all there was with digital gear at the time. I bought it, because ART promised it was 'always upgradeable', and they never came out with 1 upgrade for it. And what was with the paint?
The X15 midi controller was terrible too, and had the same icky pink paint. It also barely controlled anything.

Having read the above replies and then looking at your gear and guitar pages....

I'm not real sure how you and I have never really met!... I have three GR's powering (including an original GR-1), custom made taurus pedals, an ensoniq sq2 and a ensoniq eps16+....technology is a great thing and you may trust me, triggering a Farfisa with a guitar took a little bit of doing!...but I got it done!...... :wave:

JS

 

[Zerberus]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

OMG, I used this ART for a few years, it was my introduction to midi and digital processing. Thing is, although you could control every parameter via midi, and I really learned a lot about continuous controls, it sounded SO BAD, although it was all there was with digital gear at the time. I bought it, because ART promised it was 'always upgradeable', and they never came out with 1 upgrade for it. And what was with the paint?
The X15 midi controller was terrible too, and had the same icky pink paint. It also barely controlled anything.

Lemme guess, an SGX 2000?? Had one myself..... sometimes I´m glad the ´80s and early ´90s are over

 

[JeffB]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Lew brought up something I totally understand.....When I hear others play through a modelling amp, me likey..but when I'm doing the playing the feel is not right...tone is not right.

I also fnd it's much easier for me to dial in tone on a tube amp I really like...and then I just leave it be and PLAY....with the modeller, I'm always hearing "deficiencies"..not enough crunch...too much treble, too much compression, etc...it's never "right"...I spend more time tweaking than playing. Years ago when I played all day long every day, and played out on weekends, I hardly ever screwed with the tone controls on my Marshalls...Set it and forget it...same with my Rivera today, everyday...

:shrug: