...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

[Mincer]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Having read the above replies and then looking at your gear and guitar pages....

I'm not real sure how you and I have never really met!... I have three GR's powering (including an original GR-1), custom made taurus pedals, an ensoniq sq2 and a ensoniq eps16+....technology is a great thing and you may trust me, triggering a Farfisa with a guitar took a little bit of doing!...but I got it done!...... :wave:

JS

hey, nice to meet ya! taurus pedals- wow! i never tried them, but had been listening to them for years on old Genesis records- I use my midi pedalboard to trigger bass pedal sounds in my synth.
bte, I was never good at playing Farfisa on guitar, I alsways sound like a *terrible* keyboardist.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

ratherdashing..you bring up a very valid point! There is a vast amount of "implied superiority" which resides in most gear related discussions. I promise you I am the very last person who would ever judge anyone by their gear alone, but it does run rampant! (even many here seem to think that because I own a Marshall Stack, not only do I practice through it, but I do so at 130db, I'm a tube snob, PTP vs. PCB, etc......i don't know where everyone got this idea from!...but it's not true!....oh and btw, my Marshall is the most despised of all time depending upon who you ask.)
Anyway, your point about "being judged" is unfortunately, rather the norm at most forums. But I don't see very much of this here, thank goodness!
One of the things that most of us don't take into consideration, including me from time to time, is there are players just starting out here and some who have been playing for a very long time. My opinions are based on my 27 yrs of playing, where digital wasn't even an issue until the mid 80's...
None of us can change where we are in life, although most wish we could. At this time, I couldn't tell you honestly how well new "Squier" strats play or are made...it's just not something I keep up with!
Most of us older guys view the newer "digital" gear as a quite promising alternative to lugging around Fender Twins with JBL's, but again it hasn't happened so far! (it actually seems like it's going backwards, an Art SGE MachII through a old Crown DC300 was a killer rig in 1988, 17 yrs later nobody has even gotten that nailed down!...thus my frustration!)
Since I started this thread, it basically reflects where I am in life, and was most certainly not intended to "judge", but do keep in mind.... Line6 isn't just jumping through any hoops to "model" an Evans SS combo or a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212.....both of which are killer amps. Nor or old Oranges or Sundown's or even...........get this............."Dumble's" (considered to be the ultimate! i don't know why??!!)

The ultimate truth still remains....if it works for you, that's all that matter's...

Jeff Seal

Thanks Jeff, good post. Up until the release of the PodXT, I didn't think modelling amps were all that good either. I think Line6 finally figured it out with this one - there is a lot more subtlety than with previous versions. I have never once pretended that the models are perfect copies of the originals, but they do sound very very good. Besides, if I wanted an amp that sounded exactly like a JCM 800, I'd buy a JCM 800.

As for modelling specific amps, no matter what they include they will always upset someone ("why didn't you model my Pignose, you bastards?!?"). I think the XT's model set is very useful for the most part and covers a wide range of tone. I would like an Orange as well though.

PS: let me guess, your Marshall is either a JCM 900 or a 30th Ann?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I Play through vintage tube Fender and Marshall amps,but I also like the versatility I get with my Cyber Twin and my Valvetronix....Maybe the overall feel isn't like the great tube amps,but we cover alot of music ground and again,it's the versatility I Like in these amps....I use both and so I like both...Not for everyone,but these digital/modeling amps do have their place...Maybe the tube snob guys are getting worried simply because this technology is getting scaringly close? I prefer tube amps,but I'm not 100% a tube amp snob guy anymore...I feel I have pretty decent ears and I know if something sounds good/great or not..

Jeff Seal.....I Know your reputation as a great guy and the great things you do to people's amps....I didn't take your post in a negative way....I Play through both technologies,consider myself lucky to afford and own great amps too,and I Like em both...My ears and thoughts change on a regular basis as I Know most of our ears and thoughts on tone does...

 

[Guitarist]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I can understand small 50W or even 100W combos for bedroom rehearsal, but when people buy something like the AVT150 head...it's just sad.

 

[MikeS]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

While it seems that the initial conversation may have run its course, I have a couple more thoughts...

As guitarists and fellow tone junkies, we have a lot of pride in our tone. I think that drives us to finding our own tonal "voice." We search for a tone and technique that someday someone might hear that tone and associate it with our names. That said, is variety really the best thing? It is fine for one's tone to evolve as he ages, develops a better ear, etc. However, is it also not appropriate for one's tone to be relatively consistent, especially on the same demo CD?

I purchased a modeller for ease of recording demos and for a wider range of tones to fiddle with in the bedroom. Once the newness wore off, I've singled out maybe 3 or 4 tones that I consistently use: 1 high gain, 1 "Brown" sound, and 2 cleans, both based off the same model, just using different effects out front. There aren't any other models that I use, not because they sound "bad," but they just aren't me. What good is it to own a modeller when you only use 3 different amp models (tones)?

 

[Loserchief]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

While it seems that the initial conversation may have run its course, I have a couple more thoughts...

As guitarists and fellow tone junkies, we have a lot of pride in our tone. I think that drives us to finding our own tonal "voice." We search for a tone and technique that someday someone might hear that tone and associate it with our names. That said, is variety really the best thing? It is fine for one's tone to evolve as he ages, develops a better ear, etc. However, is it also not appropriate for one's tone to be relatively consistent, especially on the same demo CD?

I purchased a modeller for ease of recording demos and for a wider range of tones to fiddle with in the bedroom. Once the newness wore off, I've singled out maybe 3 or 4 tones that I consistently use: 1 high gain, 1 "Brown" sound, and 2 cleans, both based off the same model, just using different effects out front. There aren't any other models that I use, not because they sound "bad," but they just aren't me. What good is it to own a modeller when you only use 3 different amp models (tones)?

That's why i traded my Vetta II in for My Engl Powerball. I just didn't have the need for all the models and the powerball just has more mojo in the tonal range it offers

 

[JeffB]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Yep...I don't use many of the models either...800s, JTM for live playing and the Soldano sounds best for recording it seems. On occasion I'll play around with the Hi-watt or Bassman...but that lasts about 5 minutes...90% of the time, it's the 800.

Also just a few stompers...goose (TS9), CE1, MXR90 and tape echo...

I just realized I modeled the "real" rig I used to use when I was playing all the time...1987X, TS, CE2, PH2...who knew my rig was model worthy?

 

[Mincer]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Obviously a modeler will be lighter and easier to record than even 1 amp, but I find myself using just a few of the actual amp models. Where I go crazy is the effects and the real time control. When I had my PODxt, I had the Metal amp pack, but many amps sounded like differently EQed versions of the same amp. Maybe metal amps do sound the same, but I found one that I liked, and used EQ to change the sound.

 

[Artie]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

What good is it to own a modeller when you only use 3 different amp models (tones)?

Hey Mike; My experience is pretty much just like yours, but I can answer that.

Having the ability to find just that right one, by twiddling a knob, was worth a lot to me. For the longest time, I only used the Black Face model on my J. Just recently, I've started to get into the Tweed, and Blues settings also. I never use the onboard effects, except for a bit of reverb to give it some depth. All my effects are handeled externally.

But I do love those one or two tones.

Artie

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

How about we line up all the modeler guys and the tube amp guys in two separate gangs, and make them dance off, in the style of the 'Beat it' video?

 

[coachc55]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

:beerchug: I certainly understand where people are coming from on a personal level about their feelings about digital amps, especially when it comes to comparing them to the great tube amps. However, the technology is getting better and it will only improve. I also know that some people refuse to believe in digital anything and they're starting to live in the dark ages. It will be interesting to see what the future holds in the development of these amps.

Sincerely,
CoachC

 

[JeffB]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

How about we line up all the modeler guys and the tube amp guys in two separate gangs, and make them dance off, in the style of the 'Beat it' video?

oooooooo

oooooooo

:raises hand:

Can I be Michael?!!!!!

 

[HamerPlyr]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I prefer "Eat It", and if we decide to do that, I get to be Weird Al. I want that sammich.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

What good is it to own a modeller when you only use 3 different amp models (tones)?

First of all, I think pretty much everyone who owns a modeller only uses a small subset of the tones available to them, with a few rare exceptions of course. It's not just you.

Second, you have to understand that companies like Line 6 want as many people as possible to buy their gadgets. If the PodXT only modelled the three amps you use, they'd limit its usefulness for others. The model you never use might be someone else's favourite. A good variety of amps and effects ensures it will appeal to a large number of players.

Finally, just because you don't use every single thing in that box doesn't mean you're wasting your money. Do you use every single program on your computer?

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I have my tube amps and I have a Cyber Twin and a Valvetronix head...I Like versatility and variety and it's the whole reason I own both types of amps...I also have good enough ears and know how to adjust my gear for the tones I need to hear and for what works within the context of our band...

That being said,it then comes down to all the other stuff within the chain between our hands and that amp we choose to use...

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I prefer "Eat It", and if we decide to do that, I get to be Weird Al. I want that sammich.

yeah! lunch-off!

 

[zionstrat]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

I am so glad I was out of town when this thread when it started- The replies make it clear that there is a of 'diversity' in this group-

But here's the bottom line...if you arent modeling in the studio, you either have a stealy dan size budget or you are getting by with a couple of stock sounds- Not saying they aren't good sounds, but you've decided to paint with oils and have thown away all of the greens and reds and specialize in blues and browns-

But you have to be very careful not to judge on this one as nashville LA and London made the decision long ago and can prove that it works- On a project 4 years ago we invited the local tube snob to pick out the tubes from the models and somehow he managed to get less than 50%-

What is so often missed by guitarists that are not producers is that all of the overtone and body that we believe has to be there is usually just masking other instruments and gets mixed out live and on memorex with a decent producer- How do you get a good bottom end? Shelve the guitar at 750!

For any of you that dont beleive this but have some real studio experience, find a sound that you really love stay completly out of the mix down decisions and then ask the engineer for a copy of your track soloed..

You will be amazed and 90% of the time you will not be able to tell the difference in a good model and your rig.

I know this hurts, and until my Princton went away a couple of months ago, there were some nights I just had to avoid the digital relm and go straight to tubes- We love that sound because we spend so much time with that sound all by ourselves.

As a result, tubes will always be around just like accoustic pianos will always be around- And if I go to hear a liszt concerto, or elton john solo, you can gaurantee they will be on a bossendorfer, or a steinway (maybe a yamaha these days)...

But try asking your wife or nonmusician brother in law if tubes or models or samples or babygrands sounds better live or on a track and they will look at you like you are out of your mind. Someone said earlier that what the lister hears is what matters and we all have something to learn from that-

cheers

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

This is going to ruffle some feathers....but I'm going to say it anyway.

If I only had to have one amp, it would probably be a digital.

Now, I know this goes against alot of purists. I love the tube amps I have, and I've amassed a nice small collection. But hear me out.

For all-around digital amps are tailor-made for the job. As a bedroom amp they're great to not HAVE to crank up to get the sound that tube saturatiuon tends to get. For fiddling with effects and tweaking there's no tube amp out there that's goingt o give you the range a digital will; last I checked tube amps don't come stock with a delay, flanger, Wah, etc.

No, digitals aren't dead-on. And for alot of folks that's fine. "Close enough" is good enough to do the job for alot of people. If you've played a gig that covered a ton of ground and you needed some very different sounds very quickly it's a hard thing to beat. The attraction of just bringing up a patch is something that the rack-guys proved was valuable years ago.

The two things I really liked about my digital rigs was being able to just fiddle and mess around and create new sounds and being able to transfer patches from my Line 6 amp to a POD and have the consistency. I had this one weekend where I had a gig and a recording session within a few hours of each other. At the gig there was a backline amp provided, the hallmark of crappy amps I might add. It all worked out perfectly; toted the POD into the studio and did a little bit of work and then plugged it into a stage a few hours later and it was just like I had my amp with me all the time.

I don't begrudge either. And I don't believe that digital amps are 100% accurate. But I also believe that tube amps are ponies with maybe 5 good tricks in them, if you really spend the cash.

It's obvious that with the thriving market for both that they individually have their place.

 

[HamerPlyr]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Who are all of these intolerant tube snobs that people keep mentioning? Did I miss some obnoxious posts about how you must suck if you like digital or something? As near as I can tell, everyone has simply stated a preference. No-one has been condemned, have they? Maybe I missed it.

 

[stevie ray]

Re: ...sorry, but I can't stand digital amps....

Pod XT sounds surprisingly good


-stevie