Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

[JPMTO]

Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Im really struggling with my search for a set of pick ups on my CS Journeyman 1963 Strat. It came with CS 60’s Pups which where around 5.8k each. I liked them but found them to be a little low output in a live setting but I’m now thinking lower output is better.

I typically play the following set up:

Fender Princeton Non Reverb (1973) not mic’d with a Klone always on and King of Tone for leads. I play mostly blues, rock and jam band stuff.

I’ve tried the Seymour Duncan Surfers and didn’t love the neck and middle pick up live. It just didn’t cut. The bridge was super high output and definitely cut as it was 9.8k. But I’m starting to think I need a lower output neck and middle with OD to cut through the mix.

What do you think? I’m eyeing the following options:

- Fralin Vintage Hots (2% underwound in neck and middle)
- D Allen StratCats (these sound really good and price is right)
- Lollar Dirty Blonde (I have the Blackface in another Strat and like them but not super “stratty”
- Klien Jazzy Cats (heard they might be a little too low output)
- Put back my CS 60’s and maybe change the bridge if possible. I know that gets complicated with polarity.
- ???

Appreciate the help!

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

While the Surfer bridge was 9.8k, the magnets have also been degaussed. Long story short: DCR is a horrible way to judge output.

What weaker pickups give you is a thinner, brighter tone. Level can usually be compensated further up the signal chain.

My recommendation would be to put your CS60 neck in the middle, the CS60 middle in the neck and get an SSL-1 for the bridge. If you buy an SSL-1 RW/RP then you can leave the middle in the middle and the neck in the neck. This will address the hum. Reverse the wires on either the Duncan or both Fenders to address the phase.

I don't see the point in buying boutique pickups when the standard workhorse will do the job just fine.

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Alternately you could get an STK-S4B which will be a tad hotter and without the glass, which I see as being a good thing in the bridge. You can keep the CS60 middle in the middle and use the CS60 neck in the neck. For best position 2 quack that is still hum-free, configure the 5-way to autosplit the STK. Doing that would change the way the tone controls are connected, though you don't need the 5-way to assign tone controls if you use the standard method of putting one on the neck and one on the middle, leaving position 1 wide open. All you'll need is an additional cap.

 

[Warlag]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I’ve been fairly interested in the Quarter Pounder Staggered set too.. they are higher output but they keep that nice strat vibe I’ve noticed

 

[Jacew]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I’ve been fairly interested in the Quarter Pounder Staggered set too.. they are higher output but they keep that nice strat vibe I’ve noticed

They're great pickups, but closer to tele or p90 territory than strat tonewise. Of course tapped version is different story and really gives you the best of both worlds, at least as long as your not too purist about it.

SSL-5 is great and proven hotter pickup for strat vibe if that's what you're after. They're very good for lead tones with OD. Perhaps best middle and neck single coils for overdriven classic rock out there. QP is my choice for bridge, but they're not that good in neck.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

For the 3rd time, 250k pots knock down an enormous amount of vintage strat pickups' high end. All vintage strat pickups' full signal is EXTREMELY bright without a filter such as a 250k volume and tone. All for your search for your ideal pickups, but the most direct and cheapest solution is to USE HIGHER RESISTANCE POTS. I recommend either a 300k or 500k linear volume pot with a 300k audio no load tone pot for the neck and middle and another for the bridge. You can have as much cut as you could ever possibly need with any 5 or 6k strat pickup simply by raising your pots.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

this thread is a good example of how different things work for some people or with certain rigs but not with others. one of my main strats has a set of surfers (hardtail alder body, maple neck, mv, mt) and it sounds fantastic through my old deluxe reverb. i typically run a timmy as boost pedal and thats it. all positions cut through well and the tone is great.

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I can't imagine how a 5-6k Fender pickup isn't bright enough with 250k pots through a Fender amp, Clint. Besides, the OP says he's happy with the way they cut.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I think the surfers are great pickups as well, jeremy.

Greg, he mentioned with the surfers that he's happy with the cut of the bridge, but that the neck and middle are too muddy for him.

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

It came with CS 60’s Pups which where around 5.8k each. I liked them but found them to be a little low output in a live setting but I’m now thinking lower output is better.

[...]

But I’m starting to think I need a lower output neck and middle with OD to cut through the mix.

He's absolutely right about that: fewer winds, more treble, more cut.

Degaussed pickup with a hot wind, less treble, less cut. With 500k pots and you get an unnatural peak, especially when played through a non-Bassman Fender amp. As for higher output, there's no need for a bulldozer when his OD pedal that he runs all the time has a gain knob.

I know it runs counter to a great deal of forum members, but not everyone wants an SSL-1 or hotter pickup in the neck and middle. The OP's inquiry into Duncan's equivalent to the neck and middle pickups he already owns is an example. FWIW, I'm not all that fond of thin glassy pickups for the most part either, but I'm not the OP.

 

[Diego]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I've generally disliked every itineration of high output single coils I've tried, in both Teles and Strats.
They end up lacking clarity and detail in the high-end, always. I've tried Dimarzios, YJMs, even the Hot set in my Tele isn't quite up to what I like.

Low outputs for me.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Degaussed pickup with a hot wind, less treble, less cut. With 500k pots and you get an unnatural peak, especially when played through a non-Bassman Fender amp.

Surfer neck and middles are not hot winds, they're vintage. They naturally have all the treble or cut that anyone could ever need. It is only a matter of choosing the right pots. I think a 300k volume with a no load tone is perfect if you want some glass but not an unnatural peak like you mentioned.

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Point taken on the 6.5k winds; however, I've yet to hear an example of a 300k load on a vintage output single that I liked. 125k total load is smooth and even and has lots of glass and spank thanks to fully-charged A5 magnets.

I don't see the point in an unnatural high-Q peak when Fender pickups do the job just fine with traditional values.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I like all 250k for vintage strat singles also and agree that that's the go to set up for balanced sound. Was just suggesting a sensible way to increase the cut of the op's existing pickups since all vintage strat singles are naturally extremely bright. Although I don't care which pickups the op ultimately chooses, swapping other pickups into the same set up is unnecessary, more expensive, and also not the most direct solution.

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

$60 doesn't seem like a lot, but there's no faulting other options.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Don't get why you're averse to choosing the simplest, cheapest, and most direct solution to letting the outstanding pickup, the surfer, express its natually bright, cutting nature. Is it ok for the op to turn up the treble on his amp? Or should he get new pickups instead of that too?

 

[gregory]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

I'm not adverse to that. I thought I made that clear in my previous post (no faulting other options). I could argue about treble controls and the like, but that's all besides the point. 300k volume and no load tone puts a smile on your face and encourages you to play better? Who am I to argue?

My take is that an SSL-1 will add beef when paired up against "underwound" singles and few of us would argue that an SSL-1 in the bridge can't cut with an OD.

I'm digging the sound of the FS-1 myself these days. I also love the Area 61 with a treble bleed in the neck and an Area 58 in the middle. I think a Virtual Vintage 54 Pro and a pair of Area 67s would be great for what the OP is looking for, but my guess is the FS-1 is too hot and he's probably not interested in noiseless, but like you there's no vested interest.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Don't get why you're averse to choosing the simplest, cheapest, and most direct solution to letting the outstanding pickup, the surfer, express its natually bright, cutting nature. Is it ok for the op to turn up the treble on his amp? Or should he get new pickups instead of that too?

500k pots work for more more mid-heavy singles. Vintage wound scooped pickups get that really annoying spike in the highs that makes higher unusable with those without heavy alteration to tone circuit.

Switching to lower value cap is more "balanced" way to cut out muddiness, as the effect will be more subtle.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

My strats of choice are G&L Legacys, with their global PTB tone controls. A couple of my older ones use Duncan flat-top SSL-2s, while the newer ones use G&L made CLF-100s, also flat-tops. Both are very similar and fall into that "vintage" strat tone realm.

My secret weapon though is a DOD FX10 Preamp on my pedalboard. It is a super-clean boost. I only use a modest amount of boost, just enough to notice it, but not enough to cause amp overdrive. It does have a tone control that lets me curtail the top-end if needed.

With the Mesa amps I use, I have plenty of gain on tap. And with the boost, my Legacys can sing like Santana's PRS models. I play clean a lot, and the boost just punches up the tone.

Two of my Legacys have the Antiquity Texas Hot sets with the power bridge and the RW/RP middle. It's a totally different tone than the other guitars...fatter, warmer...at times almost P-90-ish.

Which is better? Well, I've kept the stock pickups in most of my Legacys. It depends a lot on the material I'm doing, but both have their uses. The stock pickups are closer to the 1960 Strat I owned, and that's the tone I grew up with. There's not much a stock Strat can't do, from Hendrix to Clapton to Nile Rogers to Buddy Merrill and Neil LeVang to Jeff Beck.

But that boost...it's my secret weapon.

Bill

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

Re: Strat Pick-ups — Low vs High Output?

My secret weapon though is a DOD FX10 Preamp on my pedalboard. It is a super-clean boost. I only use a modest amount of boost, just enough to notice it, but not enough to cause amp overdrive. It does have a tone control that lets me curtail the top-end if needed.

I love the FX10 too. A very underappreciated unit. Super clean boost, and that tilt type Tone knob is the bee's knees since it tweaks both bass and treble, not just the highs. Perfect pedal for subtle tailoring from one guitar to another.