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Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
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Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
- Thread starter SirJackdeFuzz
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
No surprise here, my good man. While I freely admit that good players can do wonders with either one, Gibson designed LP's to be an upscale instrument with high-end features; Leo's priority in designing was for his guitars to be cheap to manufacture. It gets down to individual taste: do you prefer a set-neck, flame maple archtop with large inlays, angled neck and headstock, & four knobs, or a all-in-one-plane bubblegum pink Strat with screws holding the neck on? :lmao:
No surprise here, my good man. While I freely admit that good players can do wonders with either one, Gibson designed LP's to be an upscale instrument with high-end features; Leo's priority in designing was for his guitars to be cheap to manufacture. It gets down to individual taste: do you prefer a set-neck, flame maple archtop with large inlays, angled neck and headstock, & four knobs, or a all-in-one-plane bubblegum pink Strat with screws holding the neck on? :lmao:
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Metalman_666
Well-known member
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
I really don't understand all you guys that say it takes years / know-how to get a good clean tone from a Strat. Before a few months ago, I hadn't touched my Strat in at least two years. I'd been listening to a lot of single-coil stuff (Sultans of Swing, lots of Hendrix) which turned me back onto it and when I picked it up, I instantly fell in love with the tones.
Just playing purely with the 5-way switch I loved every position except the middle for cleans. Each one inspired a different feel for noodling. I didn't even have to roll off the tone or play with any amp settings; everything just rocked. I also don't think that anyone would disagree when I say they were nice clean tones (for Strat lovers anyway).
I think both cleans have their place, so I like both at different times. Middle position LP too has its charm that you just can't get from a Strat, and the notch positions on a Strat are unattainable anywhere else.
I really don't understand all you guys that say it takes years / know-how to get a good clean tone from a Strat. Before a few months ago, I hadn't touched my Strat in at least two years. I'd been listening to a lot of single-coil stuff (Sultans of Swing, lots of Hendrix) which turned me back onto it and when I picked it up, I instantly fell in love with the tones.
Just playing purely with the 5-way switch I loved every position except the middle for cleans. Each one inspired a different feel for noodling. I didn't even have to roll off the tone or play with any amp settings; everything just rocked. I also don't think that anyone would disagree when I say they were nice clean tones (for Strat lovers anyway).
I think both cleans have their place, so I like both at different times. Middle position LP too has its charm that you just can't get from a Strat, and the notch positions on a Strat are unattainable anywhere else.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
Well, when you get out & see local blues & classic rock bands on a regular basis, you hear legions of guys that never seem to be able to get good tones from their Strats, year after year. Even on CD's, from some well-known blues players like Robert Cray, Anson Funderburg, Scott Holt, and Albert Castiglia, they haven't mastered the Strat-tone thing. In much of the '70's Clapton himself had some pretty tinny tones from his Strat (think 'Lay Down Sally'). These are talented guitarists who have recorded shrill, screechy tones. Evidently it is not that easy to get a Strat to sound good.
I've got a couple CD's by blues player Sherman Robertson; one he plays a Strat on, the other a 335. He's a decent player, and should sound good regardless, but on the CD with the Strat, the solo tones are so thin & trebley. Why, oh why?
Although the Strat often used as a universal symbol of electric guitars, there is a grassroots movement afoot to replace it with a Les Paul. To those Strat players who know what they're doing, we say: 'You're okay, you sound fine. Keep doing what you're doing." To the other 90% of Strat players, we say: "For God's sake, what are you guys thinking? How many songs are you going to ruin? Back off the treble, dude!"
Well, when you get out & see local blues & classic rock bands on a regular basis, you hear legions of guys that never seem to be able to get good tones from their Strats, year after year. Even on CD's, from some well-known blues players like Robert Cray, Anson Funderburg, Scott Holt, and Albert Castiglia, they haven't mastered the Strat-tone thing. In much of the '70's Clapton himself had some pretty tinny tones from his Strat (think 'Lay Down Sally'). These are talented guitarists who have recorded shrill, screechy tones. Evidently it is not that easy to get a Strat to sound good.
I've got a couple CD's by blues player Sherman Robertson; one he plays a Strat on, the other a 335. He's a decent player, and should sound good regardless, but on the CD with the Strat, the solo tones are so thin & trebley. Why, oh why?
Although the Strat often used as a universal symbol of electric guitars, there is a grassroots movement afoot to replace it with a Les Paul. To those Strat players who know what they're doing, we say: 'You're okay, you sound fine. Keep doing what you're doing." To the other 90% of Strat players, we say: "For God's sake, what are you guys thinking? How many songs are you going to ruin? Back off the treble, dude!"
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
The Wind Cries Mary, Little Wing, Sultans of Swing...'nuff said!
The Wind Cries Mary, Little Wing, Sultans of Swing...'nuff said!
Iron Horse
New member
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
Both of them are good at cleans. They're just different.
Both of them are good at cleans. They're just different.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
In the hands of pros, they're an equal match, and I enjoy listening to both. In the hands of the average player at the local bar, in my experience LP's will sound better more often than Strats. This is accentuated by the fact that Strats will usually outnumber LP's by 2 or 3 to 1. When confronted with yet another Strat player who set his amp with an abundance of treble (and no mids or bass), I find myself wishing for an accordian solo instead.
In the hands of pros, they're an equal match, and I enjoy listening to both. In the hands of the average player at the local bar, in my experience LP's will sound better more often than Strats. This is accentuated by the fact that Strats will usually outnumber LP's by 2 or 3 to 1. When confronted with yet another Strat player who set his amp with an abundance of treble (and no mids or bass), I find myself wishing for an accordian solo instead.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
Crazy like a fox! Maybe it's just Florida bands, or the heat & humidity down here, but a majority of the Strat players I see live apparently don't realize how tinny they sound. As I've said many times, some of my favorite guitarists play(ed) Strats, and had great tones. It's the misuse of the instrument by the masses that has soured some of us.
Besides, Strats are way overrepresented, and it's refreshing to see players with something else. There's hundreds of models of electric guitars; lets see (and hear) some of them. When I see half a dozen bands at a blues festival & 80% of the guitarists are playing Strats, I can't help but think that some of these guys didn't put a lot of thought into their guitar selection, especially considering how thin and shrill some of them sound. The few that have good tones, yes, they are craftsmen that carefully selected an instrument they know how to master. The rest, well, are more like sheep.
Crazy like a fox! Maybe it's just Florida bands, or the heat & humidity down here, but a majority of the Strat players I see live apparently don't realize how tinny they sound. As I've said many times, some of my favorite guitarists play(ed) Strats, and had great tones. It's the misuse of the instrument by the masses that has soured some of us.
Besides, Strats are way overrepresented, and it's refreshing to see players with something else. There's hundreds of models of electric guitars; lets see (and hear) some of them. When I see half a dozen bands at a blues festival & 80% of the guitarists are playing Strats, I can't help but think that some of these guys didn't put a lot of thought into their guitar selection, especially considering how thin and shrill some of them sound. The few that have good tones, yes, they are craftsmen that carefully selected an instrument they know how to master. The rest, well, are more like sheep.
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
blueman335's point is hard to argue. A Strat in the wrong hands can bear remarkable resemblance to a sonic machete. A Les Paul in the wrong hands is more likely to make a relatively innocuous dull thud. In both cases, it is often the fault of the player, not the instrument. Conversely, a good Strat in the hands of a good player can be a majestically expressive instrument, completely belying it's apparent deficiencies in construction. A good Les Paul can be a harmonically rich and solid instrument, providing a warmth and body that lends itself beautifully to providing "guitar carpet." In both cases, the lesser quality versions of both types of guitars can be lifeless, bland planks, which is why professionals seek out specific individual instruments, not just 'a' Strat or 'a' Les Paul. I have heard sufficient quantities of utter duds of both types to know that it is not a matter of the construction methods of one being simply better than the other. A dead Les Paul is not going to stand a chance against my '68 Strat, and a dead Strat is not going to stand a chance against a well played '59 Les Paul.
Personally, I think that the Strat is a more difficult beast to master, because the nature of single coil pickups yields a much broader dynamic range than humbuckers, and this dynamic range requires serious picking hand management. For many players, it is too much to wrestle with, and this unforgiving nature leads them to the easier path offered by the Les Paul and its humbuckers. I know that after 30 years of playing a Strat, when I pick up a Les Paul I have to adjust to the greatly diminished dynamic range, in that hitting it harder will not yield greater power past a certain threshold, and hitting it softer will never provide the same degree of light that can be coaxed from a Strat. That said, working within the dynamic threshold of a Les Paul can still bring wondrous results, but there is no doubt that adjustments need to be made. In my case, the dynamic range is an intrinsic part of my playing style, so I will always favour a Stratocaster, in fact one Stratocaster in particular!
One thing I'm sure of is that while that thing is singing and crying and providing a voice for my emotions, it is of no significance whatsoever how the neck is attached to the body, how many controls it has, or the size and nature of its inlays.
Cheers.......................................... wahwah
blueman335's point is hard to argue. A Strat in the wrong hands can bear remarkable resemblance to a sonic machete. A Les Paul in the wrong hands is more likely to make a relatively innocuous dull thud. In both cases, it is often the fault of the player, not the instrument. Conversely, a good Strat in the hands of a good player can be a majestically expressive instrument, completely belying it's apparent deficiencies in construction. A good Les Paul can be a harmonically rich and solid instrument, providing a warmth and body that lends itself beautifully to providing "guitar carpet." In both cases, the lesser quality versions of both types of guitars can be lifeless, bland planks, which is why professionals seek out specific individual instruments, not just 'a' Strat or 'a' Les Paul. I have heard sufficient quantities of utter duds of both types to know that it is not a matter of the construction methods of one being simply better than the other. A dead Les Paul is not going to stand a chance against my '68 Strat, and a dead Strat is not going to stand a chance against a well played '59 Les Paul.
Personally, I think that the Strat is a more difficult beast to master, because the nature of single coil pickups yields a much broader dynamic range than humbuckers, and this dynamic range requires serious picking hand management. For many players, it is too much to wrestle with, and this unforgiving nature leads them to the easier path offered by the Les Paul and its humbuckers. I know that after 30 years of playing a Strat, when I pick up a Les Paul I have to adjust to the greatly diminished dynamic range, in that hitting it harder will not yield greater power past a certain threshold, and hitting it softer will never provide the same degree of light that can be coaxed from a Strat. That said, working within the dynamic threshold of a Les Paul can still bring wondrous results, but there is no doubt that adjustments need to be made. In my case, the dynamic range is an intrinsic part of my playing style, so I will always favour a Stratocaster, in fact one Stratocaster in particular!
One thing I'm sure of is that while that thing is singing and crying and providing a voice for my emotions, it is of no significance whatsoever how the neck is attached to the body, how many controls it has, or the size and nature of its inlays.
Cheers.......................................... wahwah
(and i'm going need to build myself one sometime in the future..) BUT an out of phase Les Paul can sound incredible! just ask Gary Moore. 
bungalowbill
Luckybastidologist
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
You can be a great player, but have a bad tone.
You can be a mediocre player (or even a bad one), but know enough about how your equipment works to get a good tone out of it. Even if you're then at a loss at what to do with it.
And quite often, it is the fault of the instrument. There are a lot of bad fenders and bad gibsons out there, not to mention bad amps.
Gibson guitars tend to have compressed mids. It makes it a more manageable sound under gain. But the brightness of a single coil excites your ear and makes it sound like more of an acoustic instrument, so that's why I said cleans are easier with a fender.
You can be a great player, but have a bad tone.
You can be a mediocre player (or even a bad one), but know enough about how your equipment works to get a good tone out of it. Even if you're then at a loss at what to do with it.
And quite often, it is the fault of the instrument. There are a lot of bad fenders and bad gibsons out there, not to mention bad amps.
Gibson guitars tend to have compressed mids. It makes it a more manageable sound under gain. But the brightness of a single coil excites your ear and makes it sound like more of an acoustic instrument, so that's why I said cleans are easier with a fender.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
+1. A Strat will show the minor imperfections in a person's playing, much more than an LP. Taking two guitarists that sound equally as good, one with a Strat, the other with an LP; the Strat player is likely the better guitarist. It's a harder road to travel, but it's by their own choice, and I certainly respect an accomplished Strat player. If I've taken 'the easy way out' with HB's & P-90's, then so be it. I usually have better tones than most of the local guys that play Strats. Why make it harder than it has to be?
+1. A Strat will show the minor imperfections in a person's playing, much more than an LP. Taking two guitarists that sound equally as good, one with a Strat, the other with an LP; the Strat player is likely the better guitarist. It's a harder road to travel, but it's by their own choice, and I certainly respect an accomplished Strat player. If I've taken 'the easy way out' with HB's & P-90's, then so be it. I usually have better tones than most of the local guys that play Strats. Why make it harder than it has to be?
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
I wish it led more of the 'average' Strat players to LP's & SG's! Those 'sonic machetes' can be brutal on the ears. :lmao:
I wish it led more of the 'average' Strat players to LP's & SG's! Those 'sonic machetes' can be brutal on the ears. :lmao:
JohnnyGuitar
New member
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
I used to also be under the impression that it's easier to sound good with a Gibson but I heard too many players that convinced me that it's not the case.
Too many rock bands out there holding a Les Paul and making me wish they would have more articulation and "air" in their sound.
I used to also be under the impression that it's easier to sound good with a Gibson but I heard too many players that convinced me that it's not the case.
Too many rock bands out there holding a Les Paul and making me wish they would have more articulation and "air" in their sound.
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
I can certainly understand the concept of taking the path of least resistance, but I think there is a certain method in the apparent madness of the Strat player. There is a belief among Strat players that the struggle to manage the increased headroom and dynamic range of a single coil based guitar yields a more dramatic and diverse potential expressive range, often expressed as 'working for it and getting a better result.' There is an intensity that comes from the extra work put into wrangling a Strat into submission that is often missing from the Les Paul player. I think this is what has led to many players making the change from Les Pauls to Strats when they develop their hands and begin to seek a greater expressive range. The great Les Paul players (Peter Green and Paul Kossoff come to mind) manage to extract bucket loads of expressive range from their LP's, but to my ears, many LP players sound like they are coasting with an instrument that makes it easy for them. Ease is not necessarily the main criteria when expressing intense human emotion. If you're going to play "Girl From Ipanema," then sure, but maybe not "Manic Depression."
The analogy that comes to mind would be the difference between manual and automatic cars. One you really have to drive, and the other almost drives itself and just needs you to steer it. They can both get you to a similar place, I guess it depends on which driving experience best suits the driver!
Cheers....................................... wahwah
I can certainly understand the concept of taking the path of least resistance, but I think there is a certain method in the apparent madness of the Strat player. There is a belief among Strat players that the struggle to manage the increased headroom and dynamic range of a single coil based guitar yields a more dramatic and diverse potential expressive range, often expressed as 'working for it and getting a better result.' There is an intensity that comes from the extra work put into wrangling a Strat into submission that is often missing from the Les Paul player. I think this is what has led to many players making the change from Les Pauls to Strats when they develop their hands and begin to seek a greater expressive range. The great Les Paul players (Peter Green and Paul Kossoff come to mind) manage to extract bucket loads of expressive range from their LP's, but to my ears, many LP players sound like they are coasting with an instrument that makes it easy for them. Ease is not necessarily the main criteria when expressing intense human emotion. If you're going to play "Girl From Ipanema," then sure, but maybe not "Manic Depression."
The analogy that comes to mind would be the difference between manual and automatic cars. One you really have to drive, and the other almost drives itself and just needs you to steer it. They can both get you to a similar place, I guess it depends on which driving experience best suits the driver!
Cheers....................................... wahwah
wahwah
GumbyLoveologist
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
Hmmm...I think SG's are perfectly capable of being sonic tomahawks.
Personally I'd rather hear the average Strat player take on the challenge and lift their standard above average!
An average Les Paul player may not hurt your ears like an average Strat player might, but there's a good chance they will bore you into submission with nondescript blandness...
Cheers....................................... wahwah
Hmmm...I think SG's are perfectly capable of being sonic tomahawks.
Personally I'd rather hear the average Strat player take on the challenge and lift their standard above average!
An average Les Paul player may not hurt your ears like an average Strat player might, but there's a good chance they will bore you into submission with nondescript blandness...
Cheers....................................... wahwah
dani
Active member
Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.
+1. where you pick on the strings and how hard is one of the key of coaxing great tones out of a strat or any single coil equipped guitars. working the volume and tone knobs is another.
i've seen and heard esquire and les paul jr players who has gotten a myriad of tones from picking strength/placement and volume/tone knob manipulation that often left me dumbfounded and scratching my head wondering how is that possible with a one pickup (single coil) guitar.
+1. where you pick on the strings and how hard is one of the key of coaxing great tones out of a strat or any single coil equipped guitars. working the volume and tone knobs is another.
i've seen and heard esquire and les paul jr players who has gotten a myriad of tones from picking strength/placement and volume/tone knob manipulation that often left me dumbfounded and scratching my head wondering how is that possible with a one pickup (single coil) guitar.
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