Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

[J Moose]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

Personally, I think that the Strat is a more difficult beast to master, because the nature of single coil pickups yields a much broader dynamic range than humbuckers, and this dynamic range requires serious picking hand management. For many players, it is too much to wrestle with, and this unforgiving nature leads them to the easier path offered by the Les Paul and its humbuckers. I know that after 30 years of playing a Strat, when I pick up a Les Paul I have to adjust to the greatly diminished dynamic range, in that hitting it harder will not yield greater power past a certain threshold, and hitting it softer will never provide the same degree of light that can be coaxed from a Strat. That said, working within the dynamic threshold of a Les Paul can still bring wondrous results, but there is no doubt that adjustments need to be made.

I'm not so sure I entirely agree with that...

In terms of pure physics the Lester can have a much greater dynamic and timbral range then a Strat, especially if one is to employ coil-splits & other sorts of wiring trickery. They both require a certain degree of picking hand dynamics and control but the same can be said for any instrument!

There's no doubt that both are completely different rides with different purposes and they'll fit into different sorts of holes. There have been many, many times when I'm locked in a studio and while doing overdubs, I'll hear what the player is doing and suggest that the guitar is changed to a Strat or a 335 or a Gretsch to make the part 'fit' with everything else.

As a player I enjoy a great Les Paul or a Tele more then a great Strat. Maybe its because everyone plays Strats and they're universally popular... and I tend to gravitate towards things that nobody else is using, but most of the time when I encounter a Strat either as a player or engineer they sound "broken" to me.

In particular the bridge pickup usually sounds like an ice-pick transistor radio... even Tinsley Ellis (sorry man!) can clear a room with the bridge pickup. I'm also rather "allergic" to the bridge/middle combination on a Strat... its soooooo overdone and cliche.

My Lester has the phase flipped on the neck pickup, ala Peter Green. With that I'm able to coax a lot of tones out of an LP that otherwise wouldn't be there... including something that'll approach in the middle position of a Tele. As a player I find that to be much more expressive, and with the bridge "locked" in place I find that my picking dynamics carry greater weight since the strings have no inherent "extra" give. Probably also why I like Teles and have a hardtail Strat... though, a hardtail strat doesn't really sound like the stereotypical strat.

Plus the overall "largeness" in tone of a Paul just works for me. Its kinda hard to play Black Sabbath on a Strat and have it sound "right" if that makes sense.

And we all know that Jimmy Page sold a lot of Les Pauls by playing a Telecaster...

So where does that leave us?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

Les Paul in the wrong hands is more likely to make a relatively innocuous dull thud.

You can easily fix that by putting a '78 in

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

In terms of pure physics the Lester can have a much greater dynamic and timbral range then a Strat

We are getting into some serious BS here people.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

The great Les Paul players (Peter Green and Paul Kossoff come to mind) manage to extract bucket loads of expressive range from their LP's, but to my ears, many LP players sound like they are coasting with an instrument that makes it easy for them. Ease is not necessarily the main criteria when expressing intense human emotion. If you're going to play "Girl From Ipanema," then sure, but maybe not "Manic Depression."

There may be more to it than that. Interestingly enough, Hendrix preferred to use Flying V's & SG Customs for (emotional) bluesy songs, live & in the studio. For songs that involved some whammy bar, Strats were favored. Having the best whammy bar at the time, was no doubt one of the factors in Hendrix's preferring Strats, as that was crucial to his style.

I don't know about your situation Wahwah, but most of the local SSS Strat players I know say their bridge SC is too bright to be usable, leaving them with a two PU guitar. Hendrix had an advantage with the angle of his bridge PU reversed, giving it more sting vibration, with the additional output & midrange.

 

[guitarded]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

There may be more to it than that. Interestingly enough, Hendrix preferred to use Flying V's & SG Customs for (emotional) bluesy songs, live & in the studio. For songs that involved some whammy bar, Strats were favored. Having the best whammy bar at the time, was no doubt one of the factors in Hendrix's preferring Strats, as that was crucial to his style.

I don't know about your situation Wahwah, but most of the local SSS Strat players I know say their bridge SC is too bright to be usable, leaving them with a two PU guitar. Hendrix had an advantage with the angle of his bridge PU reversed, giving it more sting vibration, with the additional output & midrange.

I would wire the bridge in series with the middle as an option if I hated the bridge on it's own, which i don't... But let's see... I've got three strats where two have JBs on the bridge which is necessary for the kind of music I do. The third is a stock Eric Johnson which has a very usable bridge pup if you don't mind using the tone control.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

The third is a stock Eric Johnson which has a very usable bridge pup if you don't mind using the tone control.

If you have that option. Original Strats didn't have a tone pot connected to the bridge PU. What year did they start doing that? Are they still making SSS Strats with the bridge PU not having a tone control?

Wahwah: How's your Strats set up as far as this?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

If you have that option. Original Strats didn't have a tone pot connected to the bridge PU. What year did they start doing that? Are they still making SSS Strats with the bridge PU not having a tone control?

Wahwah: How's your Strats set up as far as this?

The American regulars have a no-load pot on the bridge (fine) and nothing in the middle (not so fine, IMHO).

The American vintage reissues have traditional wiring.

 

[guitarded]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

If you have that option. Original Strats didn't have a tone pot connected to the bridge PU. What year did they start doing that? Are they still making SSS Strats with the bridge PU not having a tone control?

Wahwah: How's your Strats set up as far as this?

The Johnson has the tone connected to the bridge instead of the middle stock, which makes sense to me.

My other two have a tone shared on the bridge and the middle, but I have been thinking a lot lately of disconnecting it from the middle. I built those two guards from scratch so that is just the way I wired it them... One was originally a Us Plus with Gold Lace Sensors.... and the other was originally an American standard HH, sometimes called a Big Apple.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

If you have that option. Original Strats didn't have a tone pot connected to the bridge PU. What year did they start doing that? Are they still making SSS Strats with the bridge PU not having a tone control?

Wahwah: How's your Strats set up as far as this?

Original Les Pauls didn't have humbuckers or a tunomatic bridge.

From Wiki..


Goldtop (1952–1957)

The 1952 Les Paul featured two P-90 single coil pickups, and a one-piece, 'trapeze'-style bridge and tailpiece, with strings that were fitted under (instead of over) a steel stop-bar. The weight and the tonal characteristics of the Les Paul were largely due to the mahogany and maple construction: maple is a hard and quite heavy wood, but was restricted to a cap over somewhat lighter mahogany, to keep weight under control.[9] In addition, the early 1952 Les Pauls were never issued serial numbers, did not have bound bodies, and are considered by some as "LP Model prototypes". However, the later 1952 Les Pauls were issued serial numbers and also came with bound bodies. Interestingly, the design scheme of some of these early models varied. For instance, some of the Les Pauls of this issue were fitted with black covered P90 pickups instead of the creme colored plastic covers that are associated with this guitar, even today. Of note, these early models, nicknamed "Goldtops", have begun to gain the interest of collectors, and subsequently, the associated nostalgic value of this instrument is increasing. In fact, re-sale prices of the vintage Les Pauls have begun to compete with already high priced, but more practical (and usable) Les Paul versions issued in later years.

I played an original 52 when we had one come through our store and wiki is pretty much dead on.

 

[Iron Horse]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

In the hands of pros, they're an equal match, and I enjoy listening to both. In the hands of the average player at the local bar, in my experience LP's will sound better more often than Strats. This is accentuated by the fact that Strats will usually outnumber LP's by 2 or 3 to 1. When confronted with yet another Strat player who set his amp with an abundance of treble (and no mids or bass), I find myself wishing for an accordian solo instead.

True. But then again I don't prefer piano music to violin music just because the violin is harder to play so that it sounds good. OTOH, the piano is harder to play so that it sounds great. This might be true here, too to some extent. A good Les Paul tone is a dime dozen. A great Les Paul player, though, is harder to recognize than a great Strat player, usually, IME. That doesn't mean that the instrument is somehow better or worse for it, though.

 

[El CHupacabra]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

I prefer my strat clean tone to the Std Les Paul or Strat, but then again my strat is H/H with the vibrato bridge firmly fixed down. I agree w/ Blueman about the strat bridge, just too much bright to get good tone.
Through my experience with that Strat Bridge, I learned to hate treble, and PuPs without tone controls. Midrange is where its at. I think that the best clean tones come from a solid neck pickup as opposed to an LP or a Strat. The wood may change the tone, that's your call, but there's no denying that the Neck Pickup you use has an enourmous effect on your sound. I think it really boils down to Pickup Choice, String gauge and EQ.

 

[coachc55]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

One of the great things about a strat is range of tones.
I use both, you just can't beat the LP for big fat sounds, but two humbuckers pretty much leaves you with two tones. I don't think I've ever found a great tone with the switch in the middle.
The strat, on the other hand, gives you those lovely quacky tones in position two and four as well as the individual pickups. As with many other people I rarely use the middle pup on it's own.
Niether guitar sounds better... they just sound different.

I really agree with this. It really is a personal thing. Fortunately, there are some guitars that offer somewhat of a combination of both tones. But with the rest of what is said, I totally agree.

 

[tc]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

I'm listening to some live jeff buckley tracks right now.

Love the songs, love the musicianship, hate the tone. Yes, I know you want to get louder right now, but louder brights is just louder brights! There's no sense of fullness or body except from the bass guitar.

Have you heard Eternal Road (Road Version)?

For chrissakes that's one of the best overdriven guitar tones I've heard!

Yes, it's not clean but it's great.

 

[coachc55]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

Even though I do use the middle pu. But mostly with my Acoustic modeling on my Digitech RP 55.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

There may be more to it than that. Interestingly enough, Hendrix preferred to use Flying V's & SG Customs for (emotional) bluesy songs, live & in the studio.

Can you give a few examples, track titles and a source for that info?

I don't know about your situation Wahwah, but most of the local SSS Strat players I know say their bridge SC is too bright to be usable, leaving them with a two PU guitar. Hendrix had an advantage with the angle of his bridge PU reversed, giving it more sting vibration, with the additional output & midrange.

This is why Seymour provided us with the SSL-5 for the bridge. Slightly higher output and a top end roll off. You can hear an example of it in my YouTube link of my version of Deep Purple's "Mistreated" below. I'm switching between neck and bridge on their own throughout that song in true Blackmore tradition. The same applies to my version of "Highway Star," the entire rhythm part is played on bridge only. The SSL-5 also brings a new character to the bridge/middle position.




Cheers........................................ wahwah

 

[wahwah]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

If you have that option. Original Strats didn't have a tone pot connected to the bridge PU. What year did they start doing that? Are they still making SSS Strats with the bridge PU not having a tone control?

Wahwah: How's your Strats set up as far as this?

I have just the one universal tone pot. My second tone pot has been converted to a switch that brings in the bridge pickup in any position, adding two more options to the existing 5, the ability to have neck and bridge together, giving something akin to the Telecaster middle position, and the option of all pickups at once, which with a clean tone gives a harmonically rich 'acoustic' quality. So that's 7 pickup settings with single universal tone and volume pots.




Cheers...................................... wahwah

 

[blueman335]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

Can you give a few examples, track titles and a source for that info?

I have a few books on Hendrix. One, 'Jimi Hendrix, Electric Gypsy' by Shapiro and Glebbeek, has a detailed listing of all the guitars Jimi was seen playing.

Just glancing thru & taking a couple quotes from that book:

"After Jimi gave his Gibson Flying V to Mick Cox in early January 1969, Jimi used the Gibson SG as a replacement guitar for his blues numbers during concerts."

About Jimi's black Flying V: "Jimi went on to use this guitar mainly for blues and the more melodic songs such as 'Hey Baby (The Land of the New Rising Sun)'."

I've also read that he used Gibsons in the studio recording part of Axis Bold as Love album, but I'm not sure if it's in this book or another one.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

I have a few books on Hendrix. One, 'Jimi Hendrix, Electric Gypsy' by Shapiro and Glebbeek, has a detailed listing of all the guitars Jimi was seen playing.

Just glancing thru & taking a couple quotes from that book:

"After Jimi gave his Gibson Flying V to Mick Cox in early January 1969, Jimi used the Gibson SG as a replacement guitar for his blues numbers during concerts."

About Jimi's black Flying V: "Jimi went on to use this guitar mainly for blues and the more melodic songs such as 'Hey Baby (The Land of the New Rising Sun)'."

I've also read that he used Gibsons in the studio recording part of Axis Bold as Love album, but I'm not sure if it's in this book or another one.

I've read Electric Gypsy too, and I recall no mention of him playing a Gibson anywhere on "Axis:Bold As Love." The fact that he gave the Flying V away says something! There's live footage of him struggling with the horrid thing feeding back uncontrollably for him. He may have played the SG as a replacement for a song at a few gigs and perhaps on a recording or two later in his career, but that's a far cry from "Hendrix preferred to use Flying V's & SG Customs for (emotional) bluesy songs, live & in the studio."

I think it would be safe to say that Jimi Hendrix preferred the Fender Stratocaster!




Cheers........................................ wahwah

 

[david kornblatt]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

I think that a Paul with a p90 is the greatest. That being said, a humbucker made the right way like i think Fralin and Antiquities and WCR Coils is really great The Strat single coil is just genius in its simplicity and really iconic. So which is better is like French Vanilla vs Deep rich Chocolate its relative Some Bands use both!!!

 

[david kornblatt]

Re: Strat vs. Les Paul clean tones.

and dont forget jazzmasters melody makers,teles, lpjr's duo sonics, mustangs, jaguars,muscmasters, Vox guitars(the teardrop), Es-335's prs's Gretch's. Ric's basically any instrument the beatles played!