Sustain in 20th+ frets
- Thread starter greekdude
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Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Sorry, but this is wrong. You might want to read the previous page. If still in doubt I will post a video that debunks this : G 12 fret VS G 14 fret bended a full tone (B), try this on your all mahogany guitar (preferably SG). This has to do with frequencies canceling each other. Two similar ferquencies will meet again after many iterations (long sustain). Two frequencies where the period of one is a multitude of the other will cancel each other fast. String length is a parameter in the whole system, not the sole parameter, and by itself says nothing about sustain.
Sorry, but this is wrong. You might want to read the previous page. If still in doubt I will post a video that debunks this : G 12 fret VS G 14 fret bended a full tone (B), try this on your all mahogany guitar (preferably SG). This has to do with frequencies canceling each other. Two similar ferquencies will meet again after many iterations (long sustain). Two frequencies where the period of one is a multitude of the other will cancel each other fast. String length is a parameter in the whole system, not the sole parameter, and by itself says nothing about sustain.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Here's something else to ponder....
If you use the same gauge string on your Ibanez as you do your Carvin, and both are tuned to A440, the strings on the Carvin will ring more because of the shorter scale it has, a "slinkier" feel so to speak. This in turn gives the string less tension which yields more vibration, even in the higher registers, when compared to a 25.5" scale. I know it's not the defining factor but it is a factor nonetheless.
Here's something else to ponder....
If you use the same gauge string on your Ibanez as you do your Carvin, and both are tuned to A440, the strings on the Carvin will ring more because of the shorter scale it has, a "slinkier" feel so to speak. This in turn gives the string less tension which yields more vibration, even in the higher registers, when compared to a 25.5" scale. I know it's not the defining factor but it is a factor nonetheless.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Are you using 9's on the Ibanez? Maybe I missed it, but is the sustain affected across all strings in those upper frets? Just wondering how a set of 10's on there would change things if you are using 9's on it.
Are you using 9's on the Ibanez? Maybe I missed it, but is the sustain affected across all strings in those upper frets? Just wondering how a set of 10's on there would change things if you are using 9's on it.
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Yes, 9s on the Ibb. I found this : https://www.unibw.de/lrt4/mechanik/mitarbeiter/ehem-mitarbeiter/hfleischer/deadspots-en . it is worth checking out. I doubt string gauge will have any effect, at least not according to this paper.
BTW I just measured the rest of strings on 22nd fret and most sound a little longer than 1st.
Yes, 9s on the Ibb. I found this : https://www.unibw.de/lrt4/mechanik/mitarbeiter/ehem-mitarbeiter/hfleischer/deadspots-en . it is worth checking out. I doubt string gauge will have any effect, at least not according to this paper.
BTW I just measured the rest of strings on 22nd fret and most sound a little longer than 1st.
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ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Interesting read.
The 1st string is always the one that suffers the most in the upper registers. Sometimes the 2nd does too. It doesn't hurt to try a set of 10's on there for kicks just to see/hear if it makes a difference. Of course I'm sure you know a little setup will need to be done to get the floating trem back where it should be.
Interesting read.
The 1st string is always the one that suffers the most in the upper registers. Sometimes the 2nd does too. It doesn't hurt to try a set of 10's on there for kicks just to see/hear if it makes a difference. Of course I'm sure you know a little setup will need to be done to get the floating trem back where it should be.
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Just played the ARZ800 (mahogany, maple top) and the UV70p maple/walnut neck, basswood body , (kind of) loud with the amp, with the vol set about 1/4. What I noticed :
- both guitars sustained for as long as i wanted G fret 7 bended a full tone (E)
- ARZ800 sustained infinitely G 14 fret, bended a full tone (B)
- UV70p sustained infinitely high E 17th fret (A)!!!!! which is very very nice!!
What I get : when the guitar "wants" and I mean that when it exhibits higher sustain with no amp feedback, it will sustain indefinitely with the help of the amp. Otherwise ... umhh I don't know I gotta try with higher volumes, when wife approves.
Just played the ARZ800 (mahogany, maple top) and the UV70p maple/walnut neck, basswood body , (kind of) loud with the amp, with the vol set about 1/4. What I noticed :
- both guitars sustained for as long as i wanted G fret 7 bended a full tone (E)
- ARZ800 sustained infinitely G 14 fret, bended a full tone (B)
- UV70p sustained infinitely high E 17th fret (A)!!!!! which is very very nice!!
What I get : when the guitar "wants" and I mean that when it exhibits higher sustain with no amp feedback, it will sustain indefinitely with the help of the amp. Otherwise ... umhh I don't know I gotta try with higher volumes, when wife approves.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Hahaha, classic scenario. I can always tell when I'm annoying my better half when I'm playing loud. She comes in and says "doesn't that hurt your ears?"
Hahaha, classic scenario. I can always tell when I'm annoying my better half when I'm playing loud. She comes in and says "doesn't that hurt your ears?"
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Shoot, when I start playing, my 2-year old runs up yelling, "I wanna hear daddy play!". My 11 year-old shortly follows asking if I can show her some chords to a song. And then the wife comes in either with a grin because the kids love it or with a frown because it's actually time to get the 2 year-old in bed...LOL.
Shoot, when I start playing, my 2-year old runs up yelling, "I wanna hear daddy play!". My 11 year-old shortly follows asking if I can show her some chords to a song. And then the wife comes in either with a grin because the kids love it or with a frown because it's actually time to get the 2 year-old in bed...LOL.
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Some update on this folks!
This morning I tried to do the test , by trying to move the neck a little bit towards the left. Somehow, for some reason, tightening the screws gave a very tight joint, and stretching the system by trem pull ups did not have any effect on the neck's stability. Well, now the answer to what we have all been waiting for : SUSTAIN INCREASED REMARKABLY !!! From 2-3 seconds on 22th fret to 5 secs and from those lousy weak 2 seconds on 24th to full blown 4+ seconds!!! Now I can almost *bend* on 22th fret and keep the note ringing !!!!!
New picz :
I wish I had recorded before and after, the difference is so large. I dont know if it was the pickguard/neck pup touching the neck's heel, doing the damage, or just the fit of the heel in its pocket. I don't know. The fit was very tight before the mod, so the arguments about loose joint did not apply, something else must be happening. IMO I attribute this to the amount of basswood under the neck. For the record there was/is no shim under the heel.
Some update on this folks!
This morning I tried to do the test , by trying to move the neck a little bit towards the left. Somehow, for some reason, tightening the screws gave a very tight joint, and stretching the system by trem pull ups did not have any effect on the neck's stability. Well, now the answer to what we have all been waiting for : SUSTAIN INCREASED REMARKABLY !!! From 2-3 seconds on 22th fret to 5 secs and from those lousy weak 2 seconds on 24th to full blown 4+ seconds!!! Now I can almost *bend* on 22th fret and keep the note ringing !!!!!
New picz :
I wish I had recorded before and after, the difference is so large. I dont know if it was the pickguard/neck pup touching the neck's heel, doing the damage, or just the fit of the heel in its pocket. I don't know. The fit was very tight before the mod, so the arguments about loose joint did not apply, something else must be happening. IMO I attribute this to the amount of basswood under the neck. For the record there was/is no shim under the heel.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Occams razor says it has nothing to do with the basswood and more to do with being incorrectly assembled, the sustain loss was cause the neck wasnt on tight thats also why it would bounce when you would gank the trem bar. Then you tighten the screws now it can vibrate properly and you have your sustain. No mystery just bad assembly.
Occams razor says it has nothing to do with the basswood and more to do with being incorrectly assembled, the sustain loss was cause the neck wasnt on tight thats also why it would bounce when you would gank the trem bar. Then you tighten the screws now it can vibrate properly and you have your sustain. No mystery just bad assembly.
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Stop commenting on things you dont understand or care or haven't bother to read. The guitar was rock solid for MANY MONTHS, no bouncing, no neck moving, perfect tuning stability no matter the trem abuse. Read what others post before spreading your wisdom.
The answer has to be somewhere else. Maybe the basswood or the pickguard whole system (via pup) touching the heel causing some self cancelling vibrations. (quite frankly I won't answer to trollish posts. I just felt I had to close this chapter with some answer for the ones interested to learn or just hear my story, won't lose any sleep if an army of trolls appears and starts flaming)
Stop commenting on things you dont understand or care or haven't bother to read. The guitar was rock solid for MANY MONTHS, no bouncing, no neck moving, perfect tuning stability no matter the trem abuse. Read what others post before spreading your wisdom.
The answer has to be somewhere else. Maybe the basswood or the pickguard whole system (via pup) touching the heel causing some self cancelling vibrations. (quite frankly I won't answer to trollish posts. I just felt I had to close this chapter with some answer for the ones interested to learn or just hear my story, won't lose any sleep if an army of trolls appears and starts flaming)
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Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
you posted a video of it not being solid... you yourself provided the evidence.
you posted a video of it not being solid... you yourself provided the evidence.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
You completely failed to provide one and your proposed reason lacks any basis for assumption.
Why do you get instantly completely belligerent with anyone who vaguely disagrees with you?
You completely failed to provide one and your proposed reason lacks any basis for assumption.
Why do you get instantly completely belligerent with anyone who vaguely disagrees with you?
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
So all you did was tighten the screws?
So all you did was tighten the screws?
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
Brother, you got a dud. Let's call it what it is. Statistically EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER EVER has defects. It's just a fact of life.
You may be able to get your guitar working to your liking, but it has to be done right.
Now just play nice and listen to EC and others who do actually know how guitars work.
I'm gonna go with EC on this one, here. You've posted SEVEN thread about how this guitar has been a problem for you but it's not Ibanez's fault and how you keep trying these fixes on it that just don't work in the real world (raising a fret?), but then you tell EC that he doesn't understand about how guitars work?
Brother, you got a dud. Let's call it what it is. Statistically EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER EVER has defects. It's just a fact of life.
You may be able to get your guitar working to your liking, but it has to be done right.
Now just play nice and listen to EC and others who do actually know how guitars work.
Re: Sustain in 20th+ frets
With the original screws, it would never stay stable in this position. I assumed that this was not its natural position in the pocket, and based all my subsequent setup on this assumption (including the strengthening of the neck heel holes and the usage of shorter screws). After I fitted those new screws the guitar had been rock solid for quite some months, everything was great including sustain, in all frets but the last 3 frets on high E. (22->24). I could live with that but I would never be really pleased until I got some adequate sustain from those last frets. The sustain was so short that it discouraged me playing in this region. The tone was very weak, and bends (e.g. on 22th fret) were nearly impossible to sound any good.
What I had planned to do was to plug and and re-drill 2 mm towards the neck heel's end. This would be an experiment I would do in order to see if this helps sustain (according to a theory that the pickguard touching the heel (via the neck pup) or having so much basswood under the heel had some negative effect by creating cancelling vibrations, or just dumping the strings vibration). But before I do this mod, I had to test it first if this would make any difference. I was certain that simply loosening the strings, unscrewing, moving/setting 1-2mm to the left and re-tightening would be ok for a test, but still suffer from instability. Well i was wrong. It amazed me was stable it was without moving any holes, and also the biggest surprise was the sustain, now I can bend on 22th, and have ring out loud for 4 seconds, I can play on the 24th, and i can even bend on 24 and have some 2 seconds of loud sustain. I just wished I could make some clips before and after.
With the original screws, it would never stay stable in this position. I assumed that this was not its natural position in the pocket, and based all my subsequent setup on this assumption (including the strengthening of the neck heel holes and the usage of shorter screws). After I fitted those new screws the guitar had been rock solid for quite some months, everything was great including sustain, in all frets but the last 3 frets on high E. (22->24). I could live with that but I would never be really pleased until I got some adequate sustain from those last frets. The sustain was so short that it discouraged me playing in this region. The tone was very weak, and bends (e.g. on 22th fret) were nearly impossible to sound any good.
What I had planned to do was to plug and and re-drill 2 mm towards the neck heel's end. This would be an experiment I would do in order to see if this helps sustain (according to a theory that the pickguard touching the heel (via the neck pup) or having so much basswood under the heel had some negative effect by creating cancelling vibrations, or just dumping the strings vibration). But before I do this mod, I had to test it first if this would make any difference. I was certain that simply loosening the strings, unscrewing, moving/setting 1-2mm to the left and re-tightening would be ok for a test, but still suffer from instability. Well i was wrong. It amazed me was stable it was without moving any holes, and also the biggest surprise was the sustain, now I can bend on 22th, and have ring out loud for 4 seconds, I can play on the 24th, and i can even bend on 24 and have some 2 seconds of loud sustain. I just wished I could make some clips before and after.
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