JohnnyGuitar
New member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
Read it... I even liked it (don't really agree with it).
Read it... I even liked it (don't really agree with it).
Sweatshop Stratocaster???
- Thread starter Fender_Punk
- Start date
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
I liked a lot of what it said, but there's some other parts (abolition of the family for instance) that I see as just... yeah, not my thing. I'm more geared towards democratic socialism. OOPS, sorry for getting political, that's just my political views, I'm not going to criticize ayone here on theirs. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it's right or wrong is something else, and I don't feel that here is a place to judge that.
I'm glad I've gotten peoples feedback on this. I think it's a good idea to be conscious of where your guitars come from and who makes them. I'm lead to believe that Mexico is a decent factory. I've been lead to believe this because 1) My Tele is MIM and it's comparable to a few American ones I've played and many others have found great quality MIM Fenders and 2) The response you guys have posted has been fairly positive about Fender Mexico.
As for Cort, I had heard stories about Squier and Ibanez using their bodies. I'm pretty sure theirs are alder, my Squier is Agathis (which I fund out I kind of like more than alder, more similar to Ash).
I liked a lot of what it said, but there's some other parts (abolition of the family for instance) that I see as just... yeah, not my thing. I'm more geared towards democratic socialism. OOPS, sorry for getting political, that's just my political views, I'm not going to criticize ayone here on theirs. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it's right or wrong is something else, and I don't feel that here is a place to judge that.
I'm glad I've gotten peoples feedback on this. I think it's a good idea to be conscious of where your guitars come from and who makes them. I'm lead to believe that Mexico is a decent factory. I've been lead to believe this because 1) My Tele is MIM and it's comparable to a few American ones I've played and many others have found great quality MIM Fenders and 2) The response you guys have posted has been fairly positive about Fender Mexico.
As for Cort, I had heard stories about Squier and Ibanez using their bodies. I'm pretty sure theirs are alder, my Squier is Agathis (which I fund out I kind of like more than alder, more similar to Ash).
Push to Shuv
New member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
Recently I watched At The Drive In's video entitled Invalid Litter Dept. It was about Maquiladoras, its almost sick. I really hope that the companies we love aren't involved in these. (thankfully it seems that Fender is not) Ever since I saw this video, "Made in Mexico" stickers have made me feel terrible inside.
Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_OrFQN07E
Recently I watched At The Drive In's video entitled Invalid Litter Dept. It was about Maquiladoras, its almost sick. I really hope that the companies we love aren't involved in these. (thankfully it seems that Fender is not) Ever since I saw this video, "Made in Mexico" stickers have made me feel terrible inside.
Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_OrFQN07E
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
I can speak to manufacturing conditions in Mexico, it really is getting quite good there. (In fact "too good" for many companies, that's why MIM prices are increasing) The country as a whole is improving quality, the workforce is becoming more educated and because of that prices are increasing and the improving economy is helping (hurting) the dollar : peso relationship. As someone said earier, when one of these manufacturing plants arrives in a town the standard of living for the employees jumps several fold over their former employment. Granted, they aren't making $20 an hour, but that's not the standard for the country.
Now China and Indonesia, I have no idea. I could see those as being subpar. I think Korea is definately fine, many preople refer to Korea as the new Japan.
Also, the environmental aspect is spot on. I hate to diverge the conversation, but if you look at how third world countries are increasing their manufacturing with almost no emvironmental controls, you realize that any efforts we do in the west (NA, Europe) and Japan are going to be negated by these other countries.
I can speak to manufacturing conditions in Mexico, it really is getting quite good there. (In fact "too good" for many companies, that's why MIM prices are increasing) The country as a whole is improving quality, the workforce is becoming more educated and because of that prices are increasing and the improving economy is helping (hurting) the dollar : peso relationship. As someone said earier, when one of these manufacturing plants arrives in a town the standard of living for the employees jumps several fold over their former employment. Granted, they aren't making $20 an hour, but that's not the standard for the country.
Now China and Indonesia, I have no idea. I could see those as being subpar. I think Korea is definately fine, many preople refer to Korea as the new Japan.
Also, the environmental aspect is spot on. I hate to diverge the conversation, but if you look at how third world countries are increasing their manufacturing with almost no emvironmental controls, you realize that any efforts we do in the west (NA, Europe) and Japan are going to be negated by these other countries.
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
If anyone has picked up the new Guitar Player, you'll note they post the location of the manufacturing plant of the 35 solidbodies they reviewed. Found out the Epi SG they reviewed came from China. Why am I not surprised??? The Fender Strat, which got a better review (yet same score) is $100 but at this point I think it's safe to assume Fender Mexico isn't a Sweatshop!! (Also, if anyone wonders why so many amazing guitars come from japan, like Fender Japan or Tokai, it's cause there's legislation against sweatshops/slave labour there!!!)
If anyone has picked up the new Guitar Player, you'll note they post the location of the manufacturing plant of the 35 solidbodies they reviewed. Found out the Epi SG they reviewed came from China. Why am I not surprised??? The Fender Strat, which got a better review (yet same score) is $100 but at this point I think it's safe to assume Fender Mexico isn't a Sweatshop!! (Also, if anyone wonders why so many amazing guitars come from japan, like Fender Japan or Tokai, it's cause there's legislation against sweatshops/slave labour there!!!)
saladin
New member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
How do you know there is sweatshop/slave labor in China or Indonesia? Have you been there? Or are you a victim of American propaganda? I just picked this up for $199. It was made in Indonesia and it has one of the best playing necks I've ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.
I have added American made CTS pots and a Switchcraft switch as well as a JB and a Jazz neck pickup. So now I have the best of both worlds. Why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!
How do you know there is sweatshop/slave labor in China or Indonesia? Have you been there? Or are you a victim of American propaganda? I just picked this up for $199. It was made in Indonesia and it has one of the best playing necks I've ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.
I have added American made CTS pots and a Switchcraft switch as well as a JB and a Jazz neck pickup. So now I have the best of both worlds. Why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
Nice Squier Tele. I have a Squier from Indonesia. I'd say the Indonesians are either sweatshop or all machine made (didn't think about where stuff came from when I bought my Squier). I haven't been to the Epi factory in China, but there's sufficient evidence to suggest that anything coming from China is what the western world would consider a sweatshop. From what I've been able to notice, corporations move to China for cheaper labour and escape environmental laws. Which, IMO is complete :bsflag:
:soapbox: I'd, persoanally, rather see corporations and countries work by fair trade rather than free trade.
How do you know there is sweatshop/slave labor in China or Indonesia? Have you been there? Or are you a victim of American propaganda? I just picked this up for $199. It was made in Indonesia and it has one of the best playing necks I've ever had the pleasure to lay my hands on.
I have added American made CTS pots and a Switchcraft switch as well as a JB and a Jazz neck pickup. So now I have the best of both worlds. Why can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!
Nice Squier Tele. I have a Squier from Indonesia. I'd say the Indonesians are either sweatshop or all machine made (didn't think about where stuff came from when I bought my Squier). I haven't been to the Epi factory in China, but there's sufficient evidence to suggest that anything coming from China is what the western world would consider a sweatshop. From what I've been able to notice, corporations move to China for cheaper labour and escape environmental laws. Which, IMO is complete :bsflag:
:soapbox: I'd, persoanally, rather see corporations and countries work by fair trade rather than free trade.
ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
You are very uninformed and naive to believe that Epi China is a sweatshop. It is very far from it. That facility is one of the largest employers in its area and one of the most up-to-date facilities of its kind.
When Epiphone opened that place (in 2002 I believe), they even had pictures and a tour of it on their site. It's a nice looking place. My LP was made there and is a pretty darn good instrument. There's very few MIC Epi's that I have played that aren't very good.
You can think what you want, but not everything you read is true. Yes, there are sweatshops out there. Are guitars made in any? Who knows. If you really want to know, hop on a plane and travel to each one to find out. Don't believe everything the press/media says. You'll live longer.
You are very uninformed and naive to believe that Epi China is a sweatshop. It is very far from it. That facility is one of the largest employers in its area and one of the most up-to-date facilities of its kind.
When Epiphone opened that place (in 2002 I believe), they even had pictures and a tour of it on their site. It's a nice looking place. My LP was made there and is a pretty darn good instrument. There's very few MIC Epi's that I have played that aren't very good.
You can think what you want, but not everything you read is true. Yes, there are sweatshops out there. Are guitars made in any? Who knows. If you really want to know, hop on a plane and travel to each one to find out. Don't believe everything the press/media says. You'll live longer.
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
As someone who doesn't pay attention to mainstream, coporate owned press, I think it's fairly obvious to assume I don't believe anything they say. I opened this thread to see if there was any knowledge on the issue. It's all nice that Epi has a clean up to date factory and they're employees aren't chained to the machines, but what is their pay like? Is it enough to live by, out of poverty? This is what I'm looking for, to see if the employees are well taken care of and well paid.
Thanks for your contribution.
As someone who doesn't pay attention to mainstream, coporate owned press, I think it's fairly obvious to assume I don't believe anything they say. I opened this thread to see if there was any knowledge on the issue. It's all nice that Epi has a clean up to date factory and they're employees aren't chained to the machines, but what is their pay like? Is it enough to live by, out of poverty? This is what I'm looking for, to see if the employees are well taken care of and well paid.
Thanks for your contribution.
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ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
It's probably fair to say they are paid less than what they would be paid if working in a US facility (simple economics, cost of living and government) but enough to live on and be happy. There's no definite way to tell without talking to an employee of the facility or getting in to the company's financial records.
Compared to who's economy? The US? Canada? The host country? Poverty level in the US and Canada is very different from poverty level in other countries.
It's probably fair to say they are paid less than what they would be paid if working in a US facility (simple economics, cost of living and government) but enough to live on and be happy. There's no definite way to tell without talking to an employee of the facility or getting in to the company's financial records.
Fender_Punk
BerriesAndCreamologist
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
Poverty, as in not having enough money to make ends meet. Being too poor to live in a decent apartment/house, eat the required amount of food to stay healthy and be able to afford transportation (public or car). If someone in the US makes $5.15/hr, they are working in a sweatshop, as they do not keep up the necessary funds to decently survive without working more than 40 hours a week. If someone in China makes $5.15 US a day, with the exchange they may be living a decent life (the exhcange is 39.75 Yuans). I haven't checked the cost of living there.
Poverty, as in not having enough money to make ends meet. Being too poor to live in a decent apartment/house, eat the required amount of food to stay healthy and be able to afford transportation (public or car). If someone in the US makes $5.15/hr, they are working in a sweatshop, as they do not keep up the necessary funds to decently survive without working more than 40 hours a week. If someone in China makes $5.15 US a day, with the exchange they may be living a decent life (the exhcange is 39.75 Yuans). I haven't checked the cost of living there.
More-Gear-Than-Skill
New member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
My guess is that this is not the place to get accurate info on these specifics. Here, you're going to get views and heresays, and some wisdom which will be drowned out by hysteria.
To be sure, only buy products from factories you've been into. Just like only eat food you've watched being prepared! Impossible? Indeed.
My guess is that this is not the place to get accurate info on these specifics. Here, you're going to get views and heresays, and some wisdom which will be drowned out by hysteria.
To be sure, only buy products from factories you've been into. Just like only eat food you've watched being prepared! Impossible? Indeed.
Bezmotivnik
New member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
Considering the frequently appalling quality of Fender's Ensenada product, one has to really wonder who's victimizing whom here. :scratchch
My pal Mark Wong did the definitive photo article on the Ensenada plant as Fender's guest a couple of years ago. He's been there a couple of times and says the workers are thrilled with the gig. The knock off early on Friday stories are true.
I've had far worse jobs than this.
Considering the frequently appalling quality of Fender's Ensenada product, one has to really wonder who's victimizing whom here. :scratchch
My pal Mark Wong did the definitive photo article on the Ensenada plant as Fender's guest a couple of years ago. He's been there a couple of times and says the workers are thrilled with the gig. The knock off early on Friday stories are true.
I've had far worse jobs than this.
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ErikH
Well-known member
Re: Sweatshop Stratocaster???
I think you need to look up the definition of a sweatshop. I used to make that little and where I worked it was hardly a sweatshop, it was a guitar shop. Restaurant waiters/waitresses make less than that per hour (payroll pay). They have to make up the rest off of tips.
Like I said, you won't know for sure what the employees are being paid unless you talk to one yourself or can get in their financial records.
I think you need to look up the definition of a sweatshop. I used to make that little and where I worked it was hardly a sweatshop, it was a guitar shop. Restaurant waiters/waitresses make less than that per hour (payroll pay). They have to make up the rest off of tips.
Like I said, you won't know for sure what the employees are being paid unless you talk to one yourself or can get in their financial records.
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